Secret Court allows NSA to continue bulk data collection

[Larry Gude]

You're asking me like I asked the question :shrug: People are people, and when treated like crap they tend to respond in kind.

You jumped in answering for him so you take ownership. Don't bail when the going gets tough!

 

[This_person]

You jumped in answering for him so you take ownership. Don't bail when the going gets tough!

I have been known (as have you, and pretty much everyone on here) to be a little sarcastic and maybe even caustic when someone has treated any of us poorly. Again, I'm speaking for Gurps, not knowing his original intent, but I suspect that he's human, like us all.

 

[Chris0nllyn]

I have been known (as have you, and pretty much everyone on here) to be a little sarcastic and maybe even caustic when someone has treated any of us poorly. Again, I'm speaking for Gurps, not knowing his original intent, but I suspect that he's human, like us all.

I took it that way as well. Considering the conversation that was had between GURPS and I not long before that.

 

[Ken King]

Again, I shouldn't have to restrict my activities to keep my government from gathering surveillance data on me. Unless they have some suspicion that I'm engaged in bad activity, I should be safe from data gathering efforts. Your point ends with it being okay to put cameras in my house and mics under my bed, since it causes me no harm.... Harm isn't the point.

How absurd can you be? They aren't gathering one damn thing from you in regard to metadata. Metadata is owned by the carrier companies, I am sure your user agreement stipulates that and what the carrier can and will do with your data. To equate the collection of metadata with them ending up actively surveiling you is a ludicrous and paranoid concept beyond fathoming.

 

[Ken King]

Technically, most people don't "own" their homes, banks do. So any govt. surveillance should be ok there, you know, since you don't actually own it.

You are as paranoid as glhs837.

 

[PsyOps]

Well, we see that Snowden thing worked out well.

 

[PsyOps]

It isn't your metadata, you do not own it and you have never had any ownership of it. It isn't yours, mine, or any other persons, it is owned by carrier companies and the PATRIOT Act (and I am sure there are some other previous enacted laws) that let the government obtain it via a specified request process subject to judicial review. To access that stored data of a United States person a warrant would be required. Gathering and storing metadata isn't accessing it. Is there potential for abuse, sure, but have you seen any? I know I haven't and I knew it was being collected long before Snowden's disclosure.

There you have it... what we say, in private, isn't ours, it's the government's. We're just so comfortable with the government having the authority to collect this info; I mean they have our best interest in mind...................... irs

 

[Ken King]

There you have it... what we say, in private, isn't ours, it's the government's. We're just so comfortable with the government having the authority to collect this info; I mean they have our best interest in mind...................... irs

WTF are you talking about? Metadata isn't what you have said no matter how much you believe it is, and you (yes I mean YOU) agreed to allow for the collection of it when you entered into agreement with your cell provider.

 

[Chris0nllyn]

WTF are you talking about? Metadata isn't what you have said no matter how much you believe it is, and you (yes I mean YOU) agreed to allow for the collection of it when you entered into agreement with your cell provider.

It's not just metadata.

 

[PsyOps]

WTF are you talking about? Metadata isn't what you have said no matter how much you believe it is, and you (yes I mean YOU) agreed to allow for the collection of it when you entered into agreement with your cell provider.

First of all, you don't have a clue what they're collecting, or what they're doing with it.

Secondly, it doesn't matter to me if it's conversations, email content, senders/recipients, phone numbers... the fact that you are okay with handing the government the authority to collect any of this is disturbing. After what we have seen with the IRS, I thought maybe folks learned their lesson that government cannot be trust with OUR information. It is OUR information, not theirs.

Third, there is no agreement when you are stuck with every provider (cell, home phone, internet, etc...) being bound to this bull**** 'agreement' by the government. We are forced into it. That does not mean I give consent to it. If you're going to suggest "you don't have to have a phone or internet", then you've entered into the land clueless bull**** that is disconnected with the real world.

Lastly, these things only happen because the people become complacent and allow it to. You accept it right up the a**. I don't

 

[Ken King]

First of all, you don't have a clue what they're collecting, or what they're doing with it.

Secondly, it doesn't matter to me if it's conversations, email content, senders/recipients, phone numbers... the fact that you are okay with handing the government the authority to collect any of this is disturbing. After what we have seen with the IRS, I thought maybe folks learned their lesson that government cannot be trust with OUR information. It is OUR information, not theirs.

Third, there is no agreement when you are stuck with every provider (cell, home phone, internet, etc...) being bound to this bull**** 'agreement' by the government. We are forced into it. That does not mean I give consent to it. If you're going to suggest "you don't have to have a phone or internet", then you've entered into the land clueless bull**** that is disconnected with the real world.

Lastly, these things only happen because the people become complacent and allow it to. You accept it right up the a**. I don't

And you have no clue ####ing as to what is being collected either. Can you name one person that has been impacted by the data collection without an associated warrant. Where have I ever suggested that one should give up their phone or internet? I simply stated that when you agreed to have those services your end user agreement indicated that the data was not yours and that the companies would do with that data as they see fit.

As to your last unwarranted comment go #### yourself.

 

[PsyOps]

And you have no clue ####ing as to what is being collected either. Can you name one person that has been impacted by the data collection without an associated warrant. Where have I ever suggested that one should give up their phone or internet? I simply stated that when you agreed to have those services your end user agreement indicated that the data was not yours and that the companies would do with that data as they see fit.

As to your last unwarranted comment go #### yourself.

Well then, aren’t we in the same spot? You’re making assumptions that what the NSA is doing is nothing more than benign, innocent collection of information. I’m making the assumption it is far more than that.

It doesn’t make bit of difference to me whether anyone has been impacted, the government having this information is dangerous if it gets in the wrong hands. Didn’t you learn anything from the IRS scandal? Haven’t you learned that the government is NOT on our side when it comes to our privacy? Haven’t you learned that there ARE evil people that could get into power (or may already be) that would use this information against you? Again… the IRS. If it can happen there, it can happen at any level.

When it comes to so-called “agreements” with our information providers, we DO NOT HAVE A CHOICE. They are forced to comply, therefore we are forced to comply. There is not one communications company out there that isn’t FORCED to comply with these very intrusive regulations. So, I DO NOT agree to it. I am taking my chances, just like you, that what I say in any electronic conversation won’t be used against me down the road.

My last comment wasn’t unwarranted. You are obviously okay with the government screwing us with these things. I’m not.

 

[glhs837]

How absurd can you be? They aren't gathering one damn thing from you in regard to metadata. Metadata is owned by the carrier companies, I am sure your user agreement stipulates that and what the carrier can and will do with your data. To equate the collection of metadata with them ending up actively surveiling you is a ludicrous and paranoid concept beyond fathoming.

I didn't equate it, I said it ends there, if you judge by "it's okay because it hasn't harmed you" yardstick. I don't own the footage of all the various private security cams I pass by every day, but I would be just as disturbed to find the gov was archiving all of that " just in case"

 

[Hijinx]

If the Government is collecting benign information, WHY???
What good is benign information?

They have to have a reason to collect it what is that reason?
They just sit around all day collecting benign information.
WTF are we paying them for that for?

Also what is America doing with a "secret Court?" A secret Court WTH is that? and who do they make these decisions to?

 

[LibertyBeacon]

It doesn’t make bit of difference to me whether anyone has been impacted, the government having this information is dangerous if it gets in the wrong hands. Didn’t you learn anything from the IRS scandal? Haven’t you learned that the government is NOT on our side when it comes to our privacy? Haven’t you learned that there ARE evil people that could get into power (or may already be) that would use this information against you? Again… the IRS. If it can happen there, it can happen at any level.

As per the usual with you, your words demonstrate a nascent understanding of how things work.

KenKing is right; these data are not yours, they never belonged to you. If you read the small print of these carrier agreements, and apply relevant law, you would understand these data are categorized as "proprietary business data". You have no right to see these data, you have no right to object to what is contained therein. You give up any rights to these data by virtue of signing these agreements. Go ahead, read one.

When it comes to so-called “agreements” with our information providers, we DO NOT HAVE A CHOICE. They are forced to comply, therefore we are forced to comply. There is not one communications company out there that isn’t FORCED to comply with these very intrusive regulations. So, I DO NOT agree to it. I am taking my chances, just like you, that what I say in any electronic conversation won’t be used against me down the road.

Please demonstrate how your mobile device is anything more than a voluntary agreement with the carrier. Who is forcing you to have this? If you signed it, then that is an indication that you have read everything that is in there and agree to it.

You are obviously okay with the government screwing us with these things. I’m not.

The government is not screwing you. You signed up for a service for which your carrier generates proprietary business data over which you have no say. They can use it to improve their service, they can use it to market to you, the can sell it, and yes, they can give it to the government.

This is precisely why I do not own a mobile device.

You need some serious education, son.

Now if anyone wants to lament why a government feels they need to have this data on their citizens, there is probably a solid discussion to be had there. But this isn't government overreach. Period. You can opt out by not having a mobile device.

 

[Inkd]

Also what is America doing with a "secret Court?" A secret Court WTH is that? and who do they make these decisions to?

If we know about it, can it really be called a secret? Court must be held in those secret black sites in Chicago that was posted about a while ago.

I wish I had invested in aluminum and copper years ago. With the amount of tinfoil used up by some of the people here I'd be a millionaire. Add in the copper for the farrady cages and I would buy my own country.

 

[LibertyBeacon]

My last comment wasn’t unwarranted. You are obviously okay with the government screwing us with these things. I’m not.

You have explicitly stated several times that you are OK with government keeping secrets and being the sole decision maker in what is secret and is not secret.

You are a goddamn phony, and you are an intellectual shrimp.

 

[PsyOps]

As per the usual with you, your words demonstrate a nascent understanding of how things work.

KenKing is right; these data are not yours, they never belonged to you. If you read the small print of these carrier agreements, and apply relevant law, you would understand these data are categorized as "proprietary business data". You have no right to see these data, you have no right to object to what is contained therein. You give up any rights to these data by virtue of signing these agreements. Go ahead, read one.



Please demonstrate how your mobile device is anything more than a voluntary agreement with the carrier. Who is forcing you to have this? If you signed it, then that is an indication that you have read everything that is in there and agree to it.



The government is not screwing you. You signed up for a service for which your carrier generates proprietary business data over which you have no say. They can use it to improve their service, they can use it to market to you, the can sell it, and yes, they can give it to the government.

This is precisely why I do not own a mobile device.

You need some serious education, son.

Now if anyone wants to lament why a government feels they need to have this data on their citizens, there is probably a solid discussion to be had there. But this isn't government overreach. Period. You can opt out by not having a mobile device.

No surprise here.

 

[LibertyBeacon]

No surprise here.

You're right. No surprise that you are a dummy. But most of us here already know that.

Do you want to answer any of the questions? Or are you a coward?

 

[PsyOps]

You have explicitly stated several times that you are OK with government keeping secrets and being the sole decision maker in what is secret and is not secret.

You are a goddamn phony, and you are an intellectual shrimp.

You're not worth it.