Should police be able to pull over a vehicle if the owner's license is suspended/revoked?

[BernieP]

You don't have to turn in the tags because your license is suspended

Doh dah, it was an example of how the system can be slow, particularly in MD. It takes milliseconds to record your insurance being canceled, but days to show that plates were returned. I never said it had anything to do with a citation for any offense, other than maybe your stupidity.

If we can pull vehicles over based on the odds the registered owner and the driver are one in the same, then camera enforcement can come with points because you can assume the owner and the driver are one in the same.

Do you own a weapon? Do you ever get angry? Well maybe we should come to your house and confiscate your weapons and charge you with a thought crime, you thought about hurting someone. When we make assumptions to allow stops and arrests, it becomes a slippery slope.

 

[Hijinx]

Doh dah, it was an example of how the system can be slow, particularly in MD. It takes milliseconds to record your insurance being canceled, but days to show that plates were returned. I never said it had anything to do with a citation for any offense, other than maybe your stupidity.

If we can pull vehicles over based on the odds the registered owner and the driver are one in the same, then camera enforcement can come with points because you can assume the owner and the driver are one in the same.

Do you own a weapon? Do you ever get angry? Well maybe we should come to your house and confiscate your weapons and charge you with a thought crime, you thought about hurting someone. When we make assumptions to allow stops and arrests, it becomes a slippery slope.

Boy you sure got jerked out of shape on that one calling me stupid and all, I just offered a comment, not an attack.
Didn't mean to jerk your chain.
Did you ever take an anger management course.?
A simple comment from you without getting pissed would have sufficed.
Being civil is not against the law

 

[SamSpade]

I would be in favor of anyone driving on tags of a vehicle without insurance being stopped and the vehicle towed.The law in Maryland requires insurance on a vehicle.

Just to add to the discussion ---

I was once pulled over - and had my car impounded - because the front plate was gone.
To my surprise - my registration had been cancelled, because I can only guess that after my front plate was stolen, someone turned it in.
The MVA in their magnificent wisdom chose never to inform me of this - so unwittingly - I drove around an unregistered vehicle.

Not only was my car taken, but I was ADDITIONALLY hit with a couple fines of driving "an uninsured vehicle" which I carefully explained
to the officer was patently untrue - in forty years, I had never lapsed on an insurance payment. NEVER. They assured me if I brought that
evidence to court, it would be taken in consideration.

I arrived in court with EVERYTHING. I had contacted my insurance agency to show the previous five years of insurance - and that I could go
back further - with no lapses.

Admittedly - I should have noticed the missing plate. I had previously lived in a state where only the back plate was used, and I don't recall
ever having attached the plate since it was the one the car had when I bought it. When I got a plate later, I was surprised to find there's no
place to attach it - it just screws right into the front bumper plastic.

The cop who said they'd probably dismiss everything? Oh no. They even argued for two additional fines the judge thought was superfluous.
Ultimately I was told pay the fine, or 30 days. The fine was for an uninsured car - I told the judge I have these documents proving it had never been
uninsured. "Those are your choices". I paid the fine and went home. Utterly blew away my previously high faith in our court system.

So - yeah. I observe all the traffic laws. That guy driving slow in the lane out front? That's me obeying the ridiculously low speed limit.

 

[GURPS]

I told the judge I have these documents proving it had never been uninsured. "Those are your choices"

I guess the Judge was too clueless to understand English and Insurance Documentation ...


When called in for Jury Duty ... I explain my back ground and how I cannot render a fair and impartial judgement because the Criminal Justice System is run by a Bunch of Morons I would not trust with a potato gun

that is a bit hyperbolic but the Incorporated Police are a bunch of idiots out for themselves, not protecting the public

 

[SamSpade]

I guess the Judge was too clueless to understand English and Insurance Documentation ...


When called in for Jury Duty ... I explain my back ground and how I cannot render a fair and impartial judgement because the Criminal Justice System is run by a Bunch of Morons I would not trust with a potato gun

that is a bit hyperbolic but the Incorporated Police are a bunch of idiots out for themselves, not protecting the public

I still have a bit of faith in our court system. Having sat in a few juries, in every instance the result was the fairest I could think of under the law and the facts presented. While my GUT may have said this, the law says that - and that's what happened. More often than not, the courts do their job. In my experience, it's really the lawyers you need to watch. I've visited law school and known people who attend. They rarely attract genius.

Similarly - I have known of precincts with notoriously bad cops. My parents once watched a couple of teenagers get slammed down on the pavement with their K-9 corps who were eating dinner after prom - and as my parents observed, one of the kids told the waiter his wallet was in the car. Same cops beat the hell out of my brother in law in a police bathroom because he washed his face - apparently according to them, trying to taint a breathalyzer test?

So - yeah. Seen bad cops. But I've known a lot of good cops and a small number who gave their lives. Knew a guy that was SWAT in DC, and his stories would make good TV scenes. Takes a lot of courage to walk up to a car planning to issue a ticket and knowing you might still be facing a gun. I never go to work worried I might get killed on the job.

 

[SamSpade]

I guess the Judge was too clueless to understand English and Insurance Documentation ...

Just wanted to add - if you've ever been to traffic court - I can see how a judge could just LOSE it in a matter of minutes, and they have to do it day after day for a full eight hours or more. The defendants that come in - and the lawyers, typically public defenders who represent them. I saw one lady who was waiting for her day in court for driving drunk on an expired license. Lawyer tried to make the standard case of defendant has learned her lesson, will make good not to do it again, blah blah blah except she managed to get caught driving drunk without a license only the night before. AGAIN. If I were the judge, I'd jump off the bench and beat her ass for wasting my time.

So I do GET that the judge probably had the "just shut up and pay the fine" attitude. You can only do that for so long.

 

[GURPS]

So I do GET that the judge probably had the "just shut up and pay the fine" attitude. You can only do that for so long.

Yep I've been to traffic court a few times in 40 plus yrs .... I saw judge tell a guy to accept the ' crossing the double line ticket' as he had just admitted to wreck-less driving in his explanation why he swerved out of his lane ..... the man wisely shut his mouth

I get that having to deal with clueless computer users all day .... that said in my opinion that individual does NOT have the temperament to be a judge each case should be individual, not because the judge is pissed at the previous defendant

 

[GURPS]

Similarly - I have known of precincts with notoriously bad cops.

Yep ... I watched a cop jumping up and down on a dude during a drug sting / bust ..... yanked the guy right out of the car threw him to the ground and jump in him with both feet .....

I was down the block with a couple of co-workers on a front stoop drinking a beer ... being the only white guy I made my exit .... too many cops and my co-worker was smoking a blunt this was right off Southern Ave in Eastover 1996.

 

[LightRoasted]

If I may ...

Just to add to the discussion ---

I was once pulled over - and had my car impounded - because the front plate was gone.
To my surprise - my registration had been cancelled, because I can only guess that after my front plate was stolen, someone turned it in.
The MVA in their magnificent wisdom chose never to inform me of this - so unwittingly - I drove around an unregistered vehicle.

Not only was my car taken, but I was ADDITIONALLY hit with a couple fines of driving "an uninsured vehicle" which I carefully explained
to the officer was patently untrue - in forty years, I had never lapsed on an insurance payment. NEVER. They assured me if I brought that
evidence to court, it would be taken in consideration.

I arrived in court with EVERYTHING. I had contacted my insurance agency to show the previous five years of insurance - and that I could go
back further - with no lapses.

Admittedly - I should have noticed the missing plate. I had previously lived in a state where only the back plate was used, and I don't recall
ever having attached the plate since it was the one the car had when I bought it. When I got a plate later, I was surprised to find there's no
place to attach it - it just screws right into the front bumper plastic.

The cop who said they'd probably dismiss everything? Oh no. They even argued for two additional fines the judge thought was superfluous.
Ultimately I was told pay the fine, or 30 days. The fine was for an uninsured car - I told the judge I have these documents proving it had never been
uninsured. "Those are your choices". I paid the fine and went home. Utterly blew away my previously high faith in our court system.

So - yeah. I observe all the traffic laws. That guy driving slow in the lane out front? That's me obeying the ridiculously low speed limit.

Should have appealed. And requested a "Trial by Jury", not a Jury Trial. Those are two separate and completely different things.

 

[SamSpade]

If I may ...


Should have appealed. And requested a "Trial by Jury", not a Jury Trial. Those are two separate and completely different things.

In this - I dealt with it for six months. I was glad for it to be over.
In a second case involving my wife - we paid a lawyer. A LOT. And still ended up paying a reduced fine, but the cost of the lawyer exceeded ANY cost we would have incurred. Court is a game that people with deep pockets and a large cash flow can easily afford.

I couldn't afford to lose. Pay and be done.

 

[LightRoasted]

If I may ...

I guess the Judge was too clueless to understand English and Insurance Documentation ...

When called in for Jury Duty ... I explain my back ground and how I cannot render a fair and impartial judgement because the Criminal Justice System is run by a Bunch of Morons I would not trust with a potato gun that is a bit hyperbolic but the Incorporated Police are a bunch of idiots out for themselves, not protecting the public

Once, when called for jury duty, when the honorable black robed costumed person sitting high and mightily above all others in the room, told all potential jurors to stand up and raise their right hand to answer the question, "Do you swear to tell the truth ....." I said no, so it could be heard. When asked why. I said that I was only present by duress under threat of a warrant to have me arrested for failing to appear as demanded by the court. I also invoked the 13th Amendment as reason not to "serve" the court. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. I was quickly an summarily dismissed. Also, I do not stand when demanded to for any black robed man or woman. Under the "All Rise" theater.

 

[GURPS]

When asked why. I said that I was only present by duress under threat of a warrant to have me arrested for failing to appear as demanded by the court. I also invoked the 13th Amendment as reason not to "serve" the court. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. I was quickly an summarily dismissed.

Interesting

 

[BernieP]

In this - I dealt with it for six months. I was glad for it to be over.
In a second case involving my wife - we paid a lawyer. A LOT. And still ended up paying a reduced fine, but the cost of the lawyer exceeded ANY cost we would have incurred. Court is a game that people with deep pockets and a large cash flow can easily afford.

I couldn't afford to lose. Pay and be done.

That's the way it works in most states, once the cop writes the ticket, you are guilty.
Good luck trying to convince the judge or magistrate or whatever they call the bill collector.
The system is rigged so you pay the fine and don't argue, easy peasy.
Not that I condone their actions, but I was reading where the Full House babe decided to plead not guilty, so the district attorney adds additional charges. It's coercion to pay the fine, plead guilty and pay up.
Unless you are retired and have nothing better to do with your time, then feel free to spend time in court - for nothing.
I had a friend who must have gone to the courthouse a half dozen times between all the hearings and then postponements because the officer didn't show up.