Social Security

[GURPS]

My mother retired under the old Civil Service System

 

[Ramp Guy]

My mother retired under the old Civil Service System

I think my dad did too, he was a postal employee. Delivered mail forever on a rural route.

 

[LightRoasted]

For your consideration ...

As for a solution - I’m in favor of requiring retirement plans, same as everything else. Retirement plans at least have the advantage that they earn money as well as accrue it. SS doesn’t and kinda thinking it CAN’T.

You and this fella. And he would know, right?

 

[BOP]

Ditch it - yay or nay?

They'd have to phase it out because there are a ton of Americans who are currently living off of it or who have it planned into their near financial future, but it's a pyramid scheme that will be collapsing soon because it's unsustainable. The problem is that young people never think they're going to get old, so they won't invest in their own retirement plan. Then they get to be 65 and are broke.

What's the solution?

I'd be okay if they 86-ed it. Things would be a little tight, but I planned for my retirement. I started late, or I'd be sitting in an even better position, but yeah.

Don't get me wrong; I've paid into it since about 1972, so I'd be mad, but as far as getting by, I wouldn't have too many issues.

 

[BOP]

Where do people get the idea that government employees don’t pay SS?

I do however think it’s dumb to have people who live on SS to still pay SS taxes on it.

My concern isn’t so much young kids who don’t save - for example my son, who has an IQ of about 60, will never be able to live unassisted without some support. He will receive a very modest amount when I pass.

Probably because not all Gov't employees do pay in, plus, CSRS didn't pay SS. I was FERS, so I paid, but my late wife, being CSRS, did not. She only got SS because she'd worked enough quarters outside the government to be eligible.

 

[BOP]

“Playthings”

Benefits need to be means tested and end SSDI, that’ll get the balance sheet back into tip top shape fast.

No it won't. The pols will look at that and go: "Shazaam! More money to spend!"

Although I don't necessarily disagree with the means testing in principle. The main problem I see is who gets to make that determination? With SS, my annuity, and a tiny sliver of what my late wife left me from her SS and her annuity, I bring in about $60K a year. I have no debt, other than my mortgage, and that's lower than most people's rent. And that's not even touching my investment income, which could give me another grand a month, at least (most of it is not in the stock market).

 

[WingsOfGold]

Cap it, if one has millions in assets, they might not need the extra 2k or so a month.

 

[PeoplesElbow]

Cap it, if one has millions in assets, they might not need the extra 2k or so a month.

Define "millions", what someone has in a 401k?

 

[Clem72]

Define "millions", what someone has in a 401k?

yeah man. If you have a million in your retirement account and you are drawing down 4% as is the most common recommendation, well that's that's $40k a year. What the hell do you need SS money if you're pulling down those numbers.

 

[PeoplesElbow]

yeah man. If you have a million in your retirement account and you are drawing down 4% as is the most common recommendation, well that's that's $40k a year. What the hell do you need SS money if you're pulling down those numbers.

Some people were simply responsible with their saving habits, why should I lose the SS I paid because of that?

 

[seekeroftruth]

I'm living on it. So, I don't want it to go away. I'm old, toothless, half blind and walk wonky now so no one is going to hire me... even as a bookkeeper. So, I earned SS and I live off of it. I know young people though.... who are using "disability" payments because "they have a bad back".... or "they can't do this or they can't do that.... " They didn't earn it... They didn't pay into the fund so they are not supposed to use the funds. IMHO that is....

I earned it. I worked for over 50 years! Now I'm old, half blind, and toothless... I need SS for a couple more decades, hopefully.

I told my kids not to plan on it being there for them... They all have 401k accounts and other retirement or pension accounts.

Give the kids a chance to start saving... and then the day after I pass... y'all can do whatever you want... but I really need SS to last a few years longer.... lol

 

[Ramp Guy]

yeah man. If you have a million in your retirement account and you are drawing down 4% as is the most common recommendation, well that's that's $40k a year. What the hell do you need SS money if you're pulling down those numbers.

...because it's his money ! The government took it from him with a promise to return it later in his life.

 

[Sneakers]

Some people were simply responsible with their saving habits, why should I lose the SS I paid because of that?

Because you're being a good socialist citizen and paying for someone else.

 

[Clem72]

...because it's his money ! The government took it from him with a promise to return it later in his life.

Guess it's too early in the morning for sarcasm. In case it wasn't clear, I don't really consider $40k a year to be such an incredible amount of money that the extra amount from social security would make no difference.

 

[Ramp Guy]

Guess it's too early in the morning for sarcasm. In case it wasn't clear, I don't really consider $40k a year to be such an incredible amount of money that the extra amount from social security would make no difference.

OK... all good

 

[Sneakers]

Guess it's too early in the morning for sarcasm. In case it wasn't clear, I don't really consider $40k a year to be such an incredible amount of money that the extra amount from social security would make no difference.

Kind of the point I made a few days ago. I don't depend on my SS at all, and if it were to go away, I really wouldn't miss it.

 

[vraiblonde]

yeah man. If you have a million in your retirement account and you are drawing down 4% as is the most common recommendation, well that's that's $40k a year. What the hell do you need SS money if you're pulling down those numbers.

$40k/yr isn't a lot. But remember that account will still be growing even as you deplete it. My scaredy cat investments are growing at around 10%/yr and that's a lowball because I'm highly risk-averse. So someone with a decent portfolio could conceivably just draw the growth and never touch the principle, and still live quite nicely.

 

[Sneakers]

$40k/yr isn't a lot. But remember that account will still be growing even as you deplete it. My scaredy cat investments are growing at around 10%/yr and that's a lowball because I'm highly risk-averse. So someone with a decent portfolio could conceivably just draw the growth and never touch the principle, and still live quite nicely.

Exactly how mine is working. I gain more than I take every year. It keeps growing, except for the huge drops during Biden.

 

[SamSpade]

I look at it this way --

For those who have paid INTO Social Security, the worker was promised a pension of a certain amount - and it is no different from the morality of a large corporation suddenly deciding to default on the retirement plans they've already promised to their employees.

To put it another way - if say, Exxon decided, sorry, money's tight - we're wiping out the retirement accounts. People would scream bloody murder.

OTOH - I have always operated under the assumption that Uncle Sam would at least PARTIALLY renege on its promise.

 

[vraiblonde]

Because you're being a good socialist citizen and paying for someone else.

See, if I were a bazillionaire I'd pay for someone else. Money is like a drug - the more you have, the more you want. Most rich people operate on greed and moremoremore. Trump was the exception - he donated his president salary to charity - but I've never heard of any other bazillionare politician doing that. Joe Biden certainly didn't, even as he was getting his palm greased from Ukraine kickbacks.

But I've never had big money. Grew up poor and managed my adult expectations accordingly. When I was doing really well financially (by my meager standards) my favorite thing to do was give it away and buy people presents.

But I wouldn't just leave that money in the government coffers because they've shown to be poor stewards. I'd draw it and give it away on my own terms. That waitress who was so sweet and efficient? Here's $1000, sis. The Publix deli guy who is so patient with my order and cleans his slicer between products - here's a little somethin' for ya, bud.

I don't really understand rich people who buy multiple mansions and ridiculous art and yachts and such. It's more fun to use that money to brighten someone else's day.