Southwest Jet From BWI Slids Off Runway In Chicago

[jazz lady]

Conditions were pretty bad in Indianapolis.
I flew in at 11:30 pm.
I was supposed to have arrived at 10:00 pm.

My plane fishtailed on the runway at landing but came out of it, thankfully.

That's pretty scary. I'm glad you landed safely.

Preliminary investigation reveals:

The cause of the Southwest accident will likely take a year to determine, a National Transportation Safety Board spokesman said. Among the factors investigators will consider are the condition of the runway at the time of the landing, the pilots' execution of the landing and the plane's mechanical systems. The NTSB said investigators were able to determine that the plane landed at a speed of 152 miles per hour -- 26 miles per hour faster than normal -- and it was moving at about 46 miles per hour when it hit the fence. The pilots told NTSB investigators that the plane's thrust reversers, which are used to slow the plane, initially did not work properly.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...5/12/12/AR2005121201598.html?nav=rss_business

So far, it looks like a combination of factors: weather conditions, speed too fast for landing, short runway, and the failure of the thrust reversers.

 

[Dougstermd]

That's pretty scary. I'm glad you landed safely.

Preliminary investigation reveals:


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...5/12/12/AR2005121201598.html?nav=rss_business

So far, it looks like a combination of factors: weather conditions, speed too fast for landing, short runway, and the failure of the thrust reversers.

= PILOT ERROR

 

[Ponytail]

I will bet that once again, the plane functioned perfectly. The pilots made a bad call to attempt a landing. The thrust reversers will not activate unless the plane is actually on the ground. If they over shot the runway by 500 yards, and came in too hot, you're damn right the pilots are gonna think that the reversers kicked in too late. The crease in their seats and the chit in their pants would have told them that.

The only way the pilots could have saved that airplane after touch down would have been to basically do a touch and go, and take that airplane to another airport with clear visibility and clear runways.

 

[StanleyRugg]

I am totally amazed with the technology today. Just think those engines have to come to a stop and run backwards in a split second to slow the plane down. Woooo Weeee, that had to be hard to invent. I am glad I am a scientist and not a engineer.

 

[Ponytail]

I am totally amazed with the technology today. Just think those engines have to come to a stop and run backwards in a split second to slow the plane down. Woooo Weeee, that had to be hard to invent. I am glad I am a scientist and not a engineer.

The engines don't run in reverse.

 

[Dougstermd]

The engines don't run in reverse.

yeah they do I just read it on the forums

 

[Larry Gude]

And of 22,000...

...commercial flights that day, 1 landed 500 feet long and 26 mph hot in a snow storm.

It is statistically amazing how safe air travel is.

 

[StanleyRugg]

The engines don't run in reverse.

Well I spose they flip around and blow backwards then Actually that would be pretty easy to do. I did the same thing with a hair drier for Momma Rugg. It would blow on the mirror to defog it from the steam in the shower and then switch and blow on her head. I used a thing outa a broke coke machine to make it swivel.

 

[jazz lady]

I will bet that once again, the plane functioned perfectly. The pilots made a bad call to attempt a landing. The thrust reversers will not activate unless the plane is actually on the ground. If they over shot the runway by 500 yards, and came in too hot, you're damn right the pilots are gonna think that the reversers kicked in too late. The crease in their seats and the chit in their pants would have told them that.

You could be right:

Radio communications recorded just before last week's fatal accident at Midway Airport reveal that some pilots and air-traffic controllers were concerned about the worsening snowstorm and discussed whether they could change the runway configuration to escape a tailwind that increased the stopping distance of planes landing, the Tribune has learned.

But the only possible runway switch at Midway would have caused an air-traffic logjam, curtailing the use of a major departure runway at O'Hare International Airport about 15 miles away, officials said. Swapping runway operations also would have added to the serious weather-related flight delays at both airports.

And...

The general rule to always try to land and take off into the wind is one of the first lessons a pilot receives, and many airlines mandate it if winds are strong or other conditions are present. A plane moves slower over the ground when landing against the wind, decreasing the distance it needs to stop. In a headwind, a plane also encounters more airflow over the wings to help produce lift on takeoffs.

"I find it hard to believe that any airline pilot would knowingly land in such a tailwind under any conditions, and most certainly not at Midway on a slippery runway," said Tom Bunn, a retired captain who flew for United Airlines and Pan Am for 30 years.
...
A tailwind that is 10 percent of the landing airspeed will increase the landing distance about 21 percent, according to the FAA Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge.

Add this to the other factors and the plane was on a course for destruction. I have to wonder too if the pilots felt pressured to land, even knowing pilots of other planes and air-controllers felt the conditions were not safe.

The only way the pilots could have saved that airplane after touch down would have been to basically do a touch and go, and take that airplane to another airport with clear visibility and clear runways.

Given the conditions, the length of the runway and the type of plane, I doubt if this could have happened. Once they committed to land, there was no turning back.

 

[Ponytail]

...Given the conditions, the length of the runway and the type of plane, I doubt if this could have happened. Once they committed to land, there was no turning back.

They had nearly twice the distance required to abort a landing.

 

[jazz lady]

And of 22,000...

...commercial flights that day, 1 landed 500 feet long and 26 mph hot in a snow storm.

It is statistically amazing how safe air travel is.

Air travel is very safe...for the most part. Sometimes a number of factors combine as in this case and the worst happens. I think it is amazing this plane crash wasn't worse but unfortunately, it probably didn't have to happen at all.

I read recently (I can't find the article right now - it was in Yahoo) there hasn't been a major plane crash in over 4 years in the U.S. That is an fantastic safety record.

 

[StanleyRugg]

I am sure they have some really good snow tires on them planes that get good gription. Maybe he needed new brakes? I wonder if they are disc brakes? I would hope so, Momma's Cordova has drum brakes and they are not very good, I can't imagine them puttin drum brakes on a airplane.

 

[jazz lady]

I am sure they have some really good snow tires on them planes that get good gription. Maybe he needed new brakes? I wonder if they are disc brakes? I would hope so, Momma's Cordova has drum brakes and they are not very good, I can't imagine them puttin drum brakes on a airplane.

Maybe they should have put snow chains on the airplane's tires. :shrug:

 

[Agee]

Maybe they should have put snow chains on the airplane's tires. :shrug:

Now were're talking "gription"

 

[StanleyRugg]

Maybe they should have put snow chains on the airplane's tires. :shrug:

I can't imagine that would work too well. I was in Vermont one winter studyin syrup and I had to snow blow from in front of the sap barn. WoooWeee they get some snow up there, and they talk funny too. Anywoo, that snow blower thing had tire chains and they just kept fallin off and those wheels went slow. I don't figgur snow chains on a tire goin as fast as a airliner would stay on. It was a good idea though for someone who aint a scientist nor a engineer.

 

[jazz lady]

I can't imagine that would work too well. I was in Vermont one winter studyin syrup and I had to snow blow from in front of the sap barn. WoooWeee they get some snow up there, and they talk funny too. Anywoo, that snow blower thing had tire chains and they just kept fallin off and those wheels went slow. I don't figgur snow chains on a tire goin as fast as a airliner would stay on. It was a good idea though for someone who aint a scientist nor a engineer.

Thank you, I think. What about studs in the tires? Would those work? :shrug:

 

[StanleyRugg]

Thank you, I think. What about studs in the tires? Would those work? :shrug:

Sure, I am bettin they would. I know, you are thinkin that when the wheel was spinnin like crazy the stud might would fling out (what is called sentrifigul force, don't worry, that is a science term I know cause I am a scientist), but I am sure that with all the modern glue and stuff they can cement them things right in there.

 

[rack'm]

Sure, I am bettin they would. I know, you are thinkin that when the wheel was spinnin like crazy the stud might would fling out (what is called sentrifigul force, don't worry, that is a science term I know cause I am a scientist), but I am sure that with all the modern glue and stuff they can cement them things right in there.

You outashould be invent'n some kinda air brakes like them hiliochopters use to stop.

 

[jazz lady]

Sure, I am bettin they would. I know, you are thinkin that when the wheel was spinnin like crazy the stud might would fling out (what is called sentrifigul force, don't worry, that is a science term I know cause I am a scientist), but I am sure that with all the modern glue and stuff they can cement them things right in there.

If that didn't work, maybe they could use one of those parachute thingies behind the plane like they use on the Space Shuttle.

 

[DoWhat]

If that didn't work, maybe they could use one of those parachute thingies behind the plane like they use on the Space Shuttle.

We used to use them.
http://www.a3skywarrior.com/pg22photos/firstflighttaxi-in_2.jpg