Speak the truth...

[AMP]

when i was younger i used to attend catholic mass, i was kinda indifferent about the whole church thing..
Don't get me wrong, i enjoyed recieving the word of god, and communion. But as Amp stated...to recite prayers in unison just didnt sit right with me.
as i gat a lil older, i felt more comfortable not going to mass, but instead worshiping in my own way, at a stream, an open field, or my bedroom.
The only time i actually returned to church was to repent my sins and recieve the communion.
It may be a lil left field....but that is how i think church should be

I second that; ditto on the indifference. After I stopped going to Mass on a regular basis, I felt closer to God when I was praying on my own, or when outdoors on a summer evening, watching the sun go down through pink mist and roaming the fields on my horse. I like going to Church becasue you can pray with others (wherever two or three are gathered...), but God is not in a building, and you don't need the framework of the Mass to reach Him.

I love the antiquity of the Catholic rituals, but a little shaky on what and how they want you to beleive.

 

[dems4me]

But if you ask around to your pastor, you will learn that the Pentacostal belief is the fact that speaking in tongues is the ONLY edification to proove you have the holy spirit in you... everyone has to speak tongues or they don't have the Holy Spirit in them which contrasts the gifts (more than speaking in tongue) that you quoted from Paul. Ask you pastor about James Seymour and his beliefs that started this NEW movement in the early 1900s.

Further, the Bible speaks out against Christmatic movements... it goes against the word of scripture... Ecclesiastes (1:9) in terms of religion according to scripture, there is nothing new under the sun. This certainly is true of the Pentacostal movements. Although Pentacostals have boosted Christianity I support it but disagree to its beliefs - mainly that speaking in tongue is the ONLY edification of receiving the Holy Spirt. Dating back to the Azusa Street Revival... (the term given to events that ran from 1906 to 1913 in and around the Apostoli Faith Mission located at 312 Azusa Street in Los Angeles, California.).

Take the Word of Faith movement another NEW pentacostald movement, ... they are Chrismatic Pentacostals, that believe that you can really get drunk in the spirit... look at Pentacostal Benny Hinn... In one case a lady was pulled over from a revival meeting for drunk driving... supposedly, she was soo drunk in the spirit all she had to do was breath on the officer and he too became drunk in real life. That contradicts scripture if you compare it as you should in light of other scripture.

All said, I'm a Christian but try to adhere to the scriptual doctrine of Truth, not hen peck, ala cart the actual scripture and have it spoon fed to me because I'm hypersuggestable to what I want to believe.

God Bless... Dems

 

[2ndAmendment]

when i was younger i used to attend catholic mass, i was kinda indifferent about the whole church thing..
Don't get me wrong, i enjoyed recieving the word of god, and communion. But as Amp stated...to recite prayers in unison just didnt sit right with me.
as i gat a lil older, i felt more comfortable not going to mass, but instead worshiping in my own way, at a stream, an open field, or my bedroom.
The only time i actually returned to church was to repent my sins and recieve the communion.
It may be a lil left field....but that is how i think church should be

Did you know that Jesus told us not to keep reciting the same prayers over and over again?

Matthew 6:6:8
6 "But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.
7 "And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words.
8 "So do not be like them; for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.

You are supposed to pray from your heart. Prayer is just a conversation with God. We tell Him what we are thankful for and give Him praise and ask Him for His intervention and help. It is that simple.

Sounds like you go to church to "cover your bets". God wants a relationship with you. He does not want to just have you worship and praise Him on Sundays or Easter or Christmas like many do. He wants to know you everyday all the time.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Thank you for the references, because I have dug out my Bible (HAHA - I snub the American Standard and crack open my King James...j/k) and will read up on them. I guess what I was driving at is why Paul had to insist he was not lying. I have to read him again. Still not sure I like the man.

When I say Church, I mean the Roman Catholic Church (in standard literature and research the RC Church is called just "the Church"), NOT to be confused with Christian church, as you stated, the body of beleivers in Christ. And the RC Church has considered women as less than men, unclean, unworthy to carry out Her work. That is one thing I do not like about them (me? us? I was baptized before I had a say, it's only in the last few years that I have been reading, researching, feeling on my own). Women were considered just as holy in religions at the time of Christ, but the Church, in Her infinite wisdom about what was good for her followers, stomped that flat.

OK, if YOU won't take my praise, then I thank God that he is giving people down here gifts like yours.

Only Catholics call the Roman Catholic Church the Church.

There is another problem, baptism. You were cristened as we call it or dedicated. The early church did not believe nor do we in infant baptism. Baptism is a willful act of submission and obedience to God. It cannot be done for you. Only you can choose to submit your will to God and accept His grace, forgiveness, and blessing. Only you can choose to have a relationship with God. Others cannot choose for you.

 

[2ndAmendment]

But if you ask around to your pastor, you will learn that the Pentacostal belief is the fact that speaking in tongues is the ONLY edification to proove you have the holy spirit in you... everyone has to speak tongues or they don't have the Holy Spirit in them which contrasts the gifts (more than speaking in tongue) that you quoted from Paul. Ask you pastor about James Seymour and his beliefs that started this NEW movement in the early 1900s.

Further, the Bible speaks out against Christmatic movements... it goes against the word of scripture... Ecclesiastes (1:9) in terms of religion according to scripture, there is nothing new under the sun. This certainly is true of the Pentacostal movements. Although Pentacostals have boosted Christianity I support it but disagree to its beliefs - mainly that speaking in tongue is the ONLY edification of receiving the Holy Spirt. Dating back to the Azusa Street Revival... (the term given to events that ran from 1906 to 1913 in and around the Apostoli Faith Mission located at 312 Azusa Street in Los Angeles, California.).

Take the Word of Faith movement another NEW pentacostald movement, ... they are Chrismatic Pentacostals, that believe that you can really get drunk in the spirit... look at Pentacostal Benny Hinn... In one case a lady was pulled over from a revival meeting for drunk driving... supposedly, she was soo drunk in the spirit all she had to do was breath on the officer and he too became drunk in real life. That contradicts scripture if you compare it as you should in light of other scripture.

All said, I'm a Christian but try to adhere to the scriptual doctrine of Truth, not hen peck, ala cart the actual scripture and have it spoon fed to me because I'm hypersuggestable to what I want to believe.

God Bless... Dems

Some churches and some believers think you have to speak in tongues. There are lots of errant beliefs in various churches. I certainly may have some things wrong. For example, I believe in a post tribulation return of Christ and not a pre-tribulation rapture. I may be wrong about that. I try to make sure I believe what is written in the Bible. If my personal belief is contradicted by the Bible, then it is time for me to change my belief.

My minister and I have talked about the "requirement to speak in tongues"; I do not and he does not believe you have to speak in tongues. He believes every believer can if they ask for the gift of tongues, but they don't have to. That may be true, but I believe and he concurs that the Holy Spirit will not give you any gift you are uncomfortable with.

I disagree that

Ecclesiastes 1:9
9 What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.

says anything against Charismatic movements. You have taken it out of context.

Ecclesiastes 1
Everything Is Meaningless

1 The words of the Teacher,son of David, king in Jerusalem:

2 "Meaningless! Meaningless!"
says the Teacher.
"Utterly meaningless!
Everything is meaningless."

3 What does man gain from all his labor
at which he toils under the sun?
4 Generations come and generations go,
but the earth remains forever.
5 The sun rises and the sun sets,
and hurries back to where it rises.
6 The wind blows to the south
and turns to the north;
round and round it goes,
ever returning on its course.
7 All streams flow into the sea,
yet the sea is never full.
To the place the streams come from,
there they return again.
8 All things are wearisome,
more than one can say.
The eye never has enough of seeing,
nor the ear its fill of hearing.
9 What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.
10 Is there anything of which one can say,
"Look! This is something new"?
It was here already, long ago;
it was here before our time.
11 There is no remembrance of men of old,
and even those who are yet to come
will not be remembered
by those who follow.



Wisdom Is Meaningless
12 I, the Teacher, was king over Israel in Jerusalem. 13 I devoted myself to study and to explore by wisdom all that is done under heaven. What a heavy burden God has laid on men! 14 I have seen all the things that are done under the sun; all of them are meaningless, a chasing after the wind.

15 What is twisted cannot be straightened;
what is lacking cannot be counted.

16 I thought to myself, "Look, I have grown and increased in wisdom more than anyone who has ruled over Jerusalem before me; I have experienced much of wisdom and knowledge." 17 Then I applied myself to the understanding of wisdom, and also of madness and folly, but I learned that this, too, is a chasing after the wind.

18 For with much wisdom comes much sorrow;
the more knowledge, the more grief.

The writer, believed to be Solomon, was just commenting that everything in this earthly existence is meaningless except, as the writer goes on to write later in Ecclesiastes, the pursuit of God.

Charismatic just means practicing the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Many of the traditional denominations see the outpouring of the Holy Spirit as a threat to their authority. Sad, since the prophesy of Joel said that these things would happen in the last days. The people that go to church should be rejoicing and seeking the blessings of the Holy Spirit instead of rejecting, but this too was prophesied in 2 Timothy.

2 Timothy 3
1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Believe as you will. I do not want anyone to believe according to the word of 2A. It is not my job to convince anyone of anything. I present what I have learned, my personal experience, and scripture to answer questions or to illustrate why I believe what I do.

 

[2ndAmendment]

I second that; ditto on the indifference. After I stopped going to Mass on a regular basis, I felt closer to God when I was praying on my own, or when outdoors on a summer evening, watching the sun go down through pink mist and roaming the fields on my horse. I like going to Church becasue you can pray with others (wherever two or three are gathered...), but God is not in a building, and you don't need the framework of the Mass to reach Him.

I love the antiquity of the Catholic rituals, but a little shaky on what and how they want you to beleive.

I love to pray outdoors by myself and also with others especially on a clear, starlit night. You are so right that God or church is not a building. the Church is the body of believers. Gathering together to pray with and for one another is being obedient to God. We are to encourage, admonish, and instruct each other. Hopefully, there is some of that going on here by His will.

 

[Jaded]

I love to pray outdoors by myself and also with others especially on a clear, starlit night. You are so right that God or church is not a building. the Church is the body of believers. Gathering together to pray with and for one another is being obedient to God. We are to encourage, admonish, and instruct each other. Hopefully, there is some of that going on here by His will.

i am curious.....are you a preacher?

 

[dems4me]

2A are you implying you do not condon the Word of Faith movement... the folks that show up at Benny Hinns sermons - get smacked on the forward head and told "YOU ARE HEALED" stuff? And then it depends on whether you fall forward or backwards as to whether you will keep said blessing :shrug: What about the Christmatic beliefs of literally being drunk in the spirit to the degree they do, being "slain in the spirit" waking up several days later -- I find it blasphamous personally.

I just look at religion as you do or you don't and the denomination should be consistent... For example Mormons... there are some sects that believe in biggamy but if you ask one they will say -- oh that's them and their Mormonism... this is our's, etc... Same as Pentacostal -- that's them, this is what our church believe. I'm not trying to start a spiratual debate, but I just have questions... for example, the Bible is 100% the word of God and infalable, how can you be in a denomination that varies soo much.... such as those that dance in the church with snakes, etc....they too are pentacostals...then there were the holly rollers, etc....

Personally, I prefer to stick with a denomination where there is more foundation, structure, and solid ground in the roots. I'm protestant. I would never and have never been confronted of someone bringing up false teaching for one sect of protestants and I answer -- well, they are protestant but a "DIFFERENT" kind of protestants, etc...

Just wondering sweetie.

 

[2ndAmendment]

2A are you implying you do not condon the Word of Faith movement... the folks that show up at Benny Hinns sermons - get smacked on the forward head and told "YOU ARE HEALED" stuff? And then it depends on whether you fall forward or backwards as to whether you will keep said blessing :shrug: What about the Christmatic beliefs of literally being drunk in the spirit to the degree they do, being "slain in the spirit" waking up several days later -- I find it blasphamous personally.

I just look at religion as you do or you don't and the denomination should be consistent... For example Mormons... there are some sects that believe in biggamy but if you ask one they will say -- oh that's them and their Mormonism... this is our's, etc... Same as Pentacostal -- that's them, this is what our church believe. I'm not trying to start a spiratual debate, but I just have questions... for example, the Bible is 100% the word of God and infalable, how can you be in a denomination that varies soo much.... such as those that dance in the church with snakes, etc....they too are pentacostals...then there were the holly rollers, etc....

Personally, I prefer to stick with a denomination where there is more foundation, structure, and solid ground in the roots. I'm protestant. I would never and have never been confronted of someone bringing up false teaching for one sect of protestants and I answer -- well, they are protestant but a "DIFFERENT" kind of protestants, etc...

Just wondering sweetie.

The word protestants means protesters. Didn't you know that? Shoot, there are churches that have split over really trivial stuff. I don't know whether it is true but I was told of a church that split over what side of the back of the hall the coat hooks should be placed on. Denomination means divided. The church has split so many ways. Even the early believers lost it as shown by Paul.

1 Corinthians 1:10-17
10I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought. 11My brothers, some from Chloe's household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. 12What I mean is this: One of you says, "I follow Paul"; another, "I follow Apollos"; another, "I follow Cephas[1] "; still another, "I follow Christ."
13Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into[2] the name of Paul? 14I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15so no one can say that you were baptized into my name. 16(Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don't remember if I baptized anyone else.) 17For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel--not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

All Baptists don't believe the same way. Neither do Methodists or even Catholics. How many times have you read about turmoil in the Catholic church; disagreements between the U.S. dioceses and Rome?

I believe the Holy Spirit heals through people that are given that gift. Can you be "slain in the Spirit"? Who am I to limit God? Have I been? No. Could I be? Sure. People, even believers, forget that God is without limits with the exception of one He has imposed on Himself. He can do anything. He can make new species, planets, galaxies, heal sick, completley alter the physical laws of the universe, bring calm and peace or war and turmoil. The only thing He will not do is something against your will. If you say God can't do that for me, He won't. If you say God will never give me the gift of healing or tongues, He won't. If on the other hand, you are totally open to Him being able to all things, then He can give to and do to and use you however you best fit into His plan.

Way too many people grab onto one scripture and just say, "That's it! That is the answer." The snake handlers are one example. You cannot take scripture out of context. Many ministers have never read the entire Bible. How can they speak definitively on scripture? Satan uses men (mankind) to split and do as much harm as possible to the body of believers. Satan has sent wolves among the sheep. Some of those wolves are or were leaders. Remember Judas was one of the disciples. God uses both the good and evil for His purposes. That is why we are to test against the scriptures. If a church or person teaches something that cannot be backed up by scripture, then be very suspect of that person or organization. Never believe anyone that takes the glory instead of giving it to God. One of the leaders of our church said something this morning that did not agree with scripture. I felt God move me to have him read a certain chapter of the Bible, so I told him. He immediately did. It is now between him and the Holy Spirit as to the outcome. In the past, I have had others do something similar to me. I learned. As Christians, we are to admonish, help, and instruct one another.

I have read the Bible multiple times in different translations. There is nothing about that that makes me special. I wish everyone would read the entire Bible and let the Holy Spirit speak to them. It has made me realize just how much God loves me and everyone. Every time I read the Bible, it speaks to me differently since I am in need of something different in my life.

 

[2ndAmendment]

i am curious.....are you a preacher?

Not officially. All Christians are called to proclaim forgiveness and the love of God for all men through God as the Son of Man, Y'shua (Jesus), the Christ.

 

[dems4me]

I have read the Bible multiple times in different translations. There is nothing about that that makes me special. I wish everyone would read the entire Bible and let the Holy Spirit speak to them. It has made me realize just how much God loves me and everyone. Every time I read the Bible, it speaks to me differently since I am in need of something different in my life.

 

[SmallTown]

I will never read the Bible. I tried reading a childrens bible many years ago when I was 10. I got half way through it, and then gave up. Best thing I ever did.

Ignorance is never a good excuse

 

[2ndAmendment]

Ignorance? Why? Becuase I don't read the Bible?

You believe in the Bible. Not me. Nuff said.

In case you have not noticed, very few people here reply to you. I hope that eventually no one does. I very rarely reply to anything you post. I find you vitriolic and most of what you post is contrary to everything that is dear to me. I would not associate with you in real life. I do not associate with you here. I am replying to this post just to pass the following.

This is the Religion forum. The description says, "Discuss spirituality and religion in this forum. Post information about worship services and events. Looking for a particular place of worship? Ask your neighbors for opinions." It does not say attack other's beliefs. Since you do not believe in God or read the Bible, feel free not to visit the Religion forum.