GWguy
*
There ya go. That's my plan. Why make a huge deal out of this if the resolution is so easy?
Speed camera sepcific point.
- Thread starter glhs837
- Start date
There ya go. That's my plan. Why make a huge deal out of this if the resolution is so easy?
glhs837
Power with Control
Well, it also comes down to it being enforcement not for safety, but for profit, and whether that's a good idea. Once you make that leap, how much erosion of trust between citizens and govt do you accept to make some money, because citizens who see through the charade of safety will trust the govt less. Which of course doesn't speak to the problem of errors by the cameras and that a system rigged to ensure maximum revenue/profit naturally reduces a citizens chance of successfully fighting an erroneous citation. The revised state law requires all system operators to have an ombudsman to represent citizens. However, most places, that ombudsman is actually the person in charge of the system. Not a very impartial ombudsman, eh? If the only assurance I have of accuracy is self tests performed by people with monetary skin in the game, how much can I trust that assurance?
In quite a few cases, citizens who challenge the accuracy are either directly blown off, or stonewalled in PIA requests for system documentation/self test data by the local govt saying only the contractor holds that data. The contractor claims they don't have to provide anything as they are a private company. When challenged that the state law requires govt operators to mantian records, see the part where courts say, "Sorry, you have no standing". It all ends up being this shady mess meant to keep citizens in the dark about how they work and how it's rigged.
So, no, it's not a non-issue even if you as a citizen never get cited. If police were shaking down citizens for cash on the side of the road, would that be a non-issue for you if you were not one of the people pulled over? Just because it's a more complex version of that doesn't mean it's not essentially the same.
H
Hodr
Guest
I drive slower than most blue haired grannies, so I don't expect I would ever be inconvenienced by the cameras. That said, I have never agreed with photo-enforcement because it is either pure revenue generation, never takes into account extenuating circumstances, and in the case of actual danger (someone driving 50 over and weaving into oncoming traffic for example) it provides no means of immediately addressing the problem.
Let a trained officer determine the appropriateness of a ticket.
Let a trained officer determine the appropriateness of a ticket.
Grumpy
Well-Known Member
Slipperly slope
GWguy
*
Yeah, could be. We just all have to use snow tires.
I disagree with several of your positions within this issue. For you it has to be profit of safety. I say it is both. I don't care which is the priority. You say this will erode the trust of citizens for their government. I say those that have that issue already distrust their government.
I'm happy this is coming to Southern Maryland and can't wait till it gets here.
Used to that good ole boy system too much huh?
glhs837
Power with Control
Please tell me how these might enhance safety in these school zones? If we don't have school children being hurt by speeders now, how will any slowing of vehicles increase their safety in any way? Because it's about increasing safety for school children, correct?
That's part of it. The other part is to generate revenue by idiots driving too fast. Would you agree that slower speeds give you better reaction time?
glhs837
Power with Control
But you don't get any safety. If you had zero incidents and still have that after, where is the gain?
H
Hodr
Guest
I'm not sure what you mean? I don't drive in such a way as to ever get pulled over, I'm not from here, and don't have one of the get-out-of-jail-free last names.
A camera doesn't enforce traffic laws, it merely tickets you long after the infraction has occurred. That means it doesn't provide any additional safety.
And as for the extenuating circumstances, a camera can't tell if you are speeding to the hospital with an injured person, trying to escape a crazy ex following you in their car, or have a stuck throttle linkage (I had a VW Rabbit that would occasionally take off like a bat out of hell for no earthly reason).
do you realize how few if any students walk to school?
If you say "school buses" I will laugh. Let's see, they speed down WW parkway when they don't have to make a stop.
When they do stop, they will leave the door open / lights on while they chat or wait for some kid who is strolling down a side street.
Cut off traffic who have the right of way, because they are more important. Every bad driving habit you can attribute to the average motorist is exhibited by bus drivers on any given day.
Keep believing it's for the "safety of our children" and not a money grab.
If you really believe it's not about the money, ask yourself why these companies are in business to sell this service?
Is your answer yes, that slower speeds do reduce accidents and enable a person to have better reaction time?
Restitution
New Member
You are diverting into a tangent that in no way relates to the point being made. Which is...
Is the claim of "increasing safety and child welfare with the use of cameras" actually a true statement when looking at the facts and statistical history?
glhs is saying that it is simply a line given by those who want to use these cameras as money grabs. He has also posted several facts to back this up.
MADPEBS1
Man, I'm still here !!!
Well i learned something today, they do use an embedded into road type sensors, so you will know where they're located so DON'T speed thru there... Thanks AW! Along with WAZE app.
glhs837
Power with Control
While there are such systems not sure any of the vendors in MD use them
If you look at most of the accidents on 235 say you would probably find speed not a factor. I'd say distraction or being oblivious would be the most frequent cause.
Slow down the traffic and you will get more congestion, which will lead to more accidents.
Of course, one of the leading causes of congestion on multi lane roads is slow traffic in the middle or left lanes.
Another would probably using the right turn lane as an on ramp - 235 is not a freeway, the lane was put there to allow cars to move right in order to slow down to turn.
Not as an express lane.
Then there are the people who stop in the travel lane before making a turn - which in turn causes a sudden halt in traffic.
Cameras aren't gong to stop that.
I would say you aren't looking at all the data and not looking at it correctly. How many speeding citations are issued in those area's? I'd venture to say a lot. So in my mind, citations have already made the area safer and now the human is being replaced by the machine. Glhs doesn't want to admit what everyone knows, that if you slow down you have a better chance of not being in an accident and you have better reaction time.
Insofar as there not being a lot of accidents with children, who cares. I have insurance which protects me from something bad which might happen. This is a tool law enforcement is using to prevent people from speeding. Prior to 911 we didn't have people keeping box cutters off airplanes....Sounds like it would have been a good idea now.
I'll go back to my original thought. This is for both safety and revenue. I don't care which one is the priority.