St. Mary's County Judicial Ethics Question?
- Thread starter renfred
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FromTexas
This Space for Rent
Pete
Repete
That is called a non biased poll. :shrug: I stated just the facts, made very easy answers, the reader reads it and makes a decision.renfred said:
How can it be ambiguous? The answer is either yes or no. Oh I get it! You didn't make the poll so you could load it up with "disbarrment" and other inflamitory type statements.
Karen H. Abrams - Judicial Ethics
This may be true, however, Daniel Guenther does handle many other areas of the law in cases where he appears before Judge Karen H. Abrams.
Absolutely sure that she did not disclose this on the record.
It was never asked, never answered. If it had been, there would be no problem.
We have a sharp difference of opinion on this one. I don't think she can separate business from personal, and I wish that she had as much respect for the position as you allude to. If she did, she would disclose her financial relationship on the record each and every time Daniel Guenther goes before her. Or, she would just not assign herself to his cases. Remember, she is the Administrative Judge in St. Mary's County.
Who would know about the conflict of interest unless it is properly disclosed?
Pandora said:
This may be true, however, Daniel Guenther does handle many other areas of the law in cases where he appears before Judge Karen H. Abrams.
Pandora said:
Absolutely sure that she did not disclose this on the record.
Pandora said:
It was never asked, never answered. If it had been, there would be no problem.
Pandora said:
We have a sharp difference of opinion on this one. I don't think she can separate business from personal, and I wish that she had as much respect for the position as you allude to. If she did, she would disclose her financial relationship on the record each and every time Daniel Guenther goes before her. Or, she would just not assign herself to his cases. Remember, she is the Administrative Judge in St. Mary's County.
Pandora said:
Who would know about the conflict of interest unless it is properly disclosed?
renfred said:
Right, I understand the position she holds, and I agree that anytime there is even the slightest question of a conflict of interest it should be disclosed.
There shouldn't be that doubt in anyone's mind that favoritism swayed to one side for any reason. Just because I think she would ethically decide on the right side of the law, doesn’t mean everyone does.
And I take it you don’t know why Julian Izydore got disbarred either?
That seems to be one well kept secret or I just haven't found the right person to ask yet.
Judge Abrams - Rental Property
If you believe this question is insulting and absurd, you should hear or read Judge Abrams' interpretations of the law as applied to various cases. Comedy or Tragedy? You got me on that one.
You're missing the point here. The question is, should she disclose the fact that she owns and collects rent from Daniel Guenther on the record, for all parties to the litigation, when Guenther is a lawyer in a case that goes before her?
Whether you believe she would be honorable or not is not the point. The point is that it should be the right of the parties involved to be informed of the conflict of interest on the record, by the judge. Then they and/or their lawyer could decide on what their options are from that point.
I'mno Mensa said:
If you believe this question is insulting and absurd, you should hear or read Judge Abrams' interpretations of the law as applied to various cases. Comedy or Tragedy? You got me on that one.
I'mno Mensa said:
You're missing the point here. The question is, should she disclose the fact that she owns and collects rent from Daniel Guenther on the record, for all parties to the litigation, when Guenther is a lawyer in a case that goes before her?
Whether you believe she would be honorable or not is not the point. The point is that it should be the right of the parties involved to be informed of the conflict of interest on the record, by the judge. Then they and/or their lawyer could decide on what their options are from that point.
I'mno Mensa said:
It is such a small thing to do. She should just disclose that information to both parties in her court room and let the lawyer who isn't her tenant decide.
I think it would be a better option than having your integrity questioned later, and a financial relationship, such as a landlord/tenant could be considered as a conflict of interest. This is a judge's decision, it holds a great deal of importance. It doesn't matter what you and I think is absurd, I feel it is absurd also, but that client who felt the decision didn't go their way because of her personal relationship with the tenant could make a huge stink about it.
Better to be safe than sorry, I would think.
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Judge Abrams - Ethics
Once again, a deflection away from placing the burden on the Administrative Judge of St. Mary's County to disclose her financial conflict of interest on the record to all parties.
I guess in your murky world you would have the judge, the person in the position of power and leadership, keep mum while the local attorneys are left to deal with the judge's conflict of interest problem. Essentially displacing the burden from where it should lie, with the judge, and moving it squarely on the backs of the local attorneys trying to make a living in St. Mary's County. I seriously doubt that attorneys practicing in St. Mary's County appreciate this displacement of the burden, and the ethical issues it brings to the surface.
FromTexas said:
Once again, a deflection away from placing the burden on the Administrative Judge of St. Mary's County to disclose her financial conflict of interest on the record to all parties.
I guess in your murky world you would have the judge, the person in the position of power and leadership, keep mum while the local attorneys are left to deal with the judge's conflict of interest problem. Essentially displacing the burden from where it should lie, with the judge, and moving it squarely on the backs of the local attorneys trying to make a living in St. Mary's County. I seriously doubt that attorneys practicing in St. Mary's County appreciate this displacement of the burden, and the ethical issues it brings to the surface.
Is there an instance/s where the judge has acted unfairly or impartial when Guenther has been in her court? Does she afford him special favor or ruling? If not then the judge is acting appropriately. What is your real issue with her?renfred said:
Karen H. Abrams - Ethics
The answer to your questions,...is another question...who knows if she has or has not acted fairly?
...would you suggest a combing over the record in the past few years to find out?
The point is not if she has or has not given Guenther "special favor or ruling". The point is that she should disclose her financial relationship with Guenther on the record, so that all parties are made fully aware, and can then factor this information into their legal decision making.
Why erode the public's confidence in the judiciary? Is it worth risking the appearance of impropriety so that you can rule over Daniel Guenther's case without anybody knowing that you rent to him?
Ken King said:
The answer to your questions,...is another question...who knows if she has or has not acted fairly?
...would you suggest a combing over the record in the past few years to find out?
The point is not if she has or has not given Guenther "special favor or ruling". The point is that she should disclose her financial relationship with Guenther on the record, so that all parties are made fully aware, and can then factor this information into their legal decision making.
Why erode the public's confidence in the judiciary? Is it worth risking the appearance of impropriety so that you can rule over Daniel Guenther's case without anybody knowing that you rent to him?
Pete
Repete
My confidence isn't eroded based on this........despite your best efforts :shrug:renfred said:
So what do we have here? The lawyer in question is a banking and investment lawyer who ACTUALLY may have never even been in the same court room as Judge Abrams. If he did by some chance you have no solid proof that Judge Abrams doesn't disclose to the opposing attorney in a sidebar. You have no solid or even circumstantial evidence this lawyer has ever received an improper ruling in her court ...if he has ever tried a case before her and you have a poll that says 80% of the people who even bothered to read and vote in the poll do not think her renting old office space to a lawyer who DID appear in her court is a big deal.
So you finally going to spill about what the judge did to you that pizzed you off?
Karen H. Abrams - Ethics
Isn't this why the Maryland Code of Judicial Conduct states that:
"A judge must disclose on the record information that the judge believes the parties or their lawyers might consider relevant to the question of recusal, even if the judge believes that there is no real basis for recusal."
Pete said:
Isn't this why the Maryland Code of Judicial Conduct states that:
"A judge must disclose on the record information that the judge believes the parties or their lawyers might consider relevant to the question of recusal, even if the judge believes that there is no real basis for recusal."
Proof doesn't matter, it is written in the law that she must disclose, therefore she must disclose. You don't wait until a questionable circumstance arises to then act on the law. It is there to avoid these types of questionable circumstances.
Sorry Ren, I'm sure you would have pointed that out next!
Sorry Ren, I'm sure you would have pointed that out next!
Pete
Repete
Once again How does anyone know that she doesn't? If this lawyer doesn't even practice criminal or civil law cases in Circuit Court there is no need to disclose.
And while we are on "disclosure" what is the code for manner of disclosure? Verbal? Does it have to be in writing? Dow it have to be made in court in front of the recorder? Can it be in chambers? How does anyone really know she doesn't already disclose using one of the above manners?
Then there is that pesky subjective "if the judge believes the parties or their lawyers might consider relevant to the question of recusal"
OK, I am the judge and I don't believe renting old office space to a lawyer who is in my court room is relevant to the question of recusal.
^^^^There you go. IF judge Abrams isn't already it is evident she doesn't believe it is relevant. :shrug:
Now since this thread is out there, the minute the Court of Appeals overturns a verdict from Judge Abrams court based on the fact she rented old office space to one of the lawyers arguing the case and she didn't disclose it, I hope someone comes in and posts the news here.
And while we are on "disclosure" what is the code for manner of disclosure? Verbal? Does it have to be in writing? Dow it have to be made in court in front of the recorder? Can it be in chambers? How does anyone really know she doesn't already disclose using one of the above manners?
Then there is that pesky subjective "if the judge believes the parties or their lawyers might consider relevant to the question of recusal"
OK, I am the judge and I don't believe renting old office space to a lawyer who is in my court room is relevant to the question of recusal.
^^^^There you go. IF judge Abrams isn't already it is evident she doesn't believe it is relevant. :shrug:
Now since this thread is out there, the minute the Court of Appeals overturns a verdict from Judge Abrams court based on the fact she rented old office space to one of the lawyers arguing the case and she didn't disclose it, I hope someone comes in and posts the news here.