FromTexas
This Space for Rent
Maryland legislature politcos!!!
What sort of f'ing socialist regime are we living with in this state?
What sort of f'ing socialist regime are we living with in this state?
Stupid mother
- Thread starter FromTexas
- Start date
D
dems4me
Guest
FromTexas said:
Not trying to start a flame war or anything, but what's wrong with helping "the little guy"?
D
dems4me
Guest
Nevermind, you answered my question,rraley said:
fttrsbeerwench
New Member
Why would you want that?
Would you prefer all healthcare be privatized so that even more folks can't get the care they need?
Would you prefer all healthcare be privatized so that even more folks can't get the care they need?
T
tikipirate
Guest
I hate to say it...
I hate to say it, but I agree with the measure, if it is as reported by the link contained within the first post.
Labor unions, both private (UAW, AFL-CIO) and government (AFGE, NFFE) have heaped health care requirements upon employers since the 1930s. Insurance companies stepped in to capitalize upon this captive market, and have profited handsomely. Health care costs have soared to feed the bureaucracy. Most folks like to blame the high cost of health care on the doctors (unfair, since even they probably aren't paid what they're worth) or the drug companies (unfair, because of the incredible expertise they have to accumulate to formulate the newest drugs), but the blame rests on mandatory health care for so many, coupled with the avarice of the insurance companies. The bottom line is that no one but the richest could ever afford to barefoot their own medical bills. (Read: MULTI-millionaires.)
It seems to me that Wal-Mart attorneys have found a way to trick-f**k the system, by providing a great health care plan, but one that would cut into the rice and bean money (no slur intended) of the common worker. Thus the average Joe/Jane opts out and 'self-insures'. If one self-insures a car or a house, one really puts the future of those assets to fate. But, in this society, if one self-insures one's health, the government swoops in to lend a hand. Thus, Wal-Mart is betting that most of the floor workers won't capitalize upon the company health care plan, but will rely on Medicaid. (MediCal in the Golden State.) This slick work has effectively stuck the taxpayers of Maryland with the health care benefits that most employers have been legislated to provide.
My bottom line is that Wal-Mart should offer an affordable health care plan to all full time (40 hr/week) employees, with no games or fancy footwork. With the sheer numbers of employees that Wal-Mart has on the books, they should have every insurance company in the US taking Sam Walton's offspring to every steakhouse and titty bar in Arkansas trying to seal that deal.
Wal-Mart talks a good 'family values' game. Maybe they should put some of their money in American family values.
I hate to say it, but I agree with the measure, if it is as reported by the link contained within the first post.
Labor unions, both private (UAW, AFL-CIO) and government (AFGE, NFFE) have heaped health care requirements upon employers since the 1930s. Insurance companies stepped in to capitalize upon this captive market, and have profited handsomely. Health care costs have soared to feed the bureaucracy. Most folks like to blame the high cost of health care on the doctors (unfair, since even they probably aren't paid what they're worth) or the drug companies (unfair, because of the incredible expertise they have to accumulate to formulate the newest drugs), but the blame rests on mandatory health care for so many, coupled with the avarice of the insurance companies. The bottom line is that no one but the richest could ever afford to barefoot their own medical bills. (Read: MULTI-millionaires.)
It seems to me that Wal-Mart attorneys have found a way to trick-f**k the system, by providing a great health care plan, but one that would cut into the rice and bean money (no slur intended) of the common worker. Thus the average Joe/Jane opts out and 'self-insures'. If one self-insures a car or a house, one really puts the future of those assets to fate. But, in this society, if one self-insures one's health, the government swoops in to lend a hand. Thus, Wal-Mart is betting that most of the floor workers won't capitalize upon the company health care plan, but will rely on Medicaid. (MediCal in the Golden State.) This slick work has effectively stuck the taxpayers of Maryland with the health care benefits that most employers have been legislated to provide.
My bottom line is that Wal-Mart should offer an affordable health care plan to all full time (40 hr/week) employees, with no games or fancy footwork. With the sheer numbers of employees that Wal-Mart has on the books, they should have every insurance company in the US taking Sam Walton's offspring to every steakhouse and titty bar in Arkansas trying to seal that deal.
Wal-Mart talks a good 'family values' game. Maybe they should put some of their money in American family values.
Obviously they're going after Wal-Mart because, with 17,000 Maryland employees, they have a built-in constituency. These employees will think the Dems did something good for them and will vote accordingly, as will their families and touchy-feely types who aren't even employed by Wal-Mart.
And if this causes Wal-Mart to scale back in Maryland, jobs will be lost and that won't be such a good thing at all for workers, but it will be good for the Democrats because then they can say jobs were lost under Ehrlich.
They've got nothing to lose with this nonsense.
And if this causes Wal-Mart to scale back in Maryland, jobs will be lost and that won't be such a good thing at all for workers, but it will be good for the Democrats because then they can say jobs were lost under Ehrlich.
They've got nothing to lose with this nonsense.
I'll tell you why I would want it:rraley said:
When I was at Tester, I had a single plan that they probably paid a good $200/ mo for. Then I had a $100 a year deductible. Do you know that in the 3 years I worked for them, I never once had medical bills that were over my annual deductible? So they literally paid all that money for nothing and I'd have just as soon had that extra $200/ in my paycheck.
Then I moved on to Channel 10, where I had a family plan to the tune of $400/mo with a $1,000 annual deductible. Again, in the 5 years I worked there, not one time did I go over my deductible.
So my employers weren't paying for MY health care - not one dime of that money went toward my health care.
Think about it: if you get $1000 extra (the going rate these days for a full-coverage family plan) in your paycheck each month in lieu of health insurance, that's $12,000 a year. How much did you rack up in doctor bills last year? I'll bet it wasn't $12,000.
S
Schizo
Guest
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B
Bruzilla
Guest
I think the key phrase is "Labor unions, who heavily pushed for the bill, said they would pursue similar legislation in at least 30 other states, focusing first on Colorado, Connecticut and Washington." As soon as I see that labor unions are behind this, you can understand that what this really has to deal with is forcing WalMart to unionize, which will drive prices up.
What really pizzes me off is that I have a guy from Maryland currently staying with my family who works for WalMart, and contrary to press reports they do offer their employees health, dental, life insurance, etc., benefits, and he gets them at a much lower cost than he was paying at Yum Inc., an outfit he worked for when he first came down here that operates a chain of fast-food places. So what I think these guys are really after is getting WalMart to offer free or nearly free healthcare 'cause "they gots all that money." I hope WalMart does pull out of Maryland. Some highly visible "cause and effect" damage might do you'all some good.
What really pizzes me off is that I have a guy from Maryland currently staying with my family who works for WalMart, and contrary to press reports they do offer their employees health, dental, life insurance, etc., benefits, and he gets them at a much lower cost than he was paying at Yum Inc., an outfit he worked for when he first came down here that operates a chain of fast-food places. So what I think these guys are really after is getting WalMart to offer free or nearly free healthcare 'cause "they gots all that money." I hope WalMart does pull out of Maryland. Some highly visible "cause and effect" damage might do you'all some good.
slik
New Member
vraiblonde said:
In general I agree. I had the same complaint about my homeowners insurance. Just seemed to pay and pay and not really get anything from it. If I filed a claim they raise my premuim - even if it were somthing I had no control over.
I had just finished sermonizing my wife on how I felt the insurance industry was a bunch of crap, when an F4 came and totalled my house. I maxed out my homeowners and auto policies (actually was slightly under insured). With out the insurance my family woul be living in a cardboard box.
I can't really speak for the health insurance - I'm very lucky - when I started with my company if covered my entire family at the companies expense. When the changed the corporate policy to just cover the employee and have the employee pay the portion to cover the family - I was grandfathered in and to this day, they still pay for my entire family coverage (I'm never leaving this company).
On another note - about 20 years ago - I didn't have insurance because I was temporarily unemployed. Silly me - because of a stupid "at home" accident I severed my right hand. Hospital, surgery, doctor and Physical therapist bills ran in the range of $65k. Took me more then 10 years to pay for it - luckily they didn't charge me interest and some of them were willing to work with me on the totals. If I had the insurance it would have covered the entire mess. So yeah - I saved myself about $800 by not paying for the insurance for 2 months - but was out $65k.
Love ya Vrai, and would much rather listen to you complain about the insurance premuims then hearing that you have to use the policies for major medical attention. Hears hoping you never have to use your health insurance.
B
Bruzilla
Guest
After working for Blue Cross Blue Shield for over a year, I've learned quite a bit about the innerworkings of the healthcare insurance industry that I've been able to save quite a bit of money by knowing.
The biggest thing that I learned is that there's no real set rates for your insurance. Your group rates are going to be determined by how well a negotiater your benefit's administrator is. If the person is good, your rates will be low. If they aren't, you're screwed. Two companies with the same employee age distribution, health variables, and employee numbers can have vastly different rates based on how stong the negotiator is. Also, your negotiated coverage is based on the preferences of the negotiator. If you have some high-fallutin' dude who likes "only the best", he may require that top-tier hospitals be included in the coverage, which severely drives up group costs, when he could have placed limits on top-tier hospitals and saved everyone a lot of money. For example, St. Mary's County Hospital is not a top-tier hospital, and offers medical services instead of a piano lounge in the lobby so their costs are lower. If your negotiator maximizes your coverage at SMCH or CCH, and minimizes coverage at top-tier hospitals in Washington DC, then your rates are much better. But if they want to also offer full coverages for the top-tier hospitals, your rates head for the roof.
I also learned that the younger/healthier people in a company aren't really paying for their healthcare... they're paying for the healthcare of the oldest/sickest in the company. So when people say "I payed for medical insurance for years and never went over my deductable so I just wasted my money" the truth is that money wasn't wasted - it just went to pay someone else's bills. That may not come as much of a surprise to anyone, but what surprised me is that you don't have to pay someone else's bills. There's no rule or law that says you have to join group medical coverage. Most younger folks are just led to believe that the cheapest healthcare insurance is group coverage from work, but when you join a group you're assuming the costs of insuring everyone even if you're 20 and fit as an ox. If you're under 40 and in good health, call the local healthcare insurance outfits (Aetna, Humana, Blue Cross, etc.) and get some rates for individual coverage and you're probably going to find that your rates will be lower than what your company is offering. The average age for the consulting company I worked for last year was 60, and I'm only 44. I was paying $800/month for group coverage for medical/dental/ and life insurance. I called up Blue Cross and got much better coverage, and a package deal on medical/dental/life for $370 a month.
Both Blue Cross and Humana down here in Florida are also offering Choice insurance packages that allow individuals to better price out their coverage so if the hospital that you usually go to is mid-tier or low-tier on a cost per patient/treatment scale, you can benefit from the reduced costs with much lower rates. And if you're one of those folks who wants the paneling, piano lounge, and fancy rooms, you can pay for that as well.
Lastly, since insurance usually pays for most medical costs most people don't shop around for doctors or hospitals. They just go to wherever they go, and pay their 20% or 30% of their costs without having any idea if they're getting a good deal. What other goods or services do we shop for that way??? There's nothing at all preventing people from talking to their doctor or hospital and asking for an "Out The Door" price for the treatment. This sounds wierd, but there's nothing stopping a patient from doing that. Just say "I'm comparing overall costs, and if you want my business I want you to provide me with a cost upfront." I've seen provider data showing costs for treating a broken arm ranging from $400 to $3,800 for the same level of treatment. That's a difference between paying $120 and $1,140 out of pocket for the same treatment, and most folks have no idea that's money they didn't have to pay! There are medical brokerage services in CA that are negotiating deals for patients right now, and I'm hoping they'll be coming to Florida as well. That should yield even lower costs as they can cut lot deals.
The biggest thing that I learned is that there's no real set rates for your insurance. Your group rates are going to be determined by how well a negotiater your benefit's administrator is. If the person is good, your rates will be low. If they aren't, you're screwed. Two companies with the same employee age distribution, health variables, and employee numbers can have vastly different rates based on how stong the negotiator is. Also, your negotiated coverage is based on the preferences of the negotiator. If you have some high-fallutin' dude who likes "only the best", he may require that top-tier hospitals be included in the coverage, which severely drives up group costs, when he could have placed limits on top-tier hospitals and saved everyone a lot of money. For example, St. Mary's County Hospital is not a top-tier hospital, and offers medical services instead of a piano lounge in the lobby so their costs are lower. If your negotiator maximizes your coverage at SMCH or CCH, and minimizes coverage at top-tier hospitals in Washington DC, then your rates are much better. But if they want to also offer full coverages for the top-tier hospitals, your rates head for the roof.
I also learned that the younger/healthier people in a company aren't really paying for their healthcare... they're paying for the healthcare of the oldest/sickest in the company. So when people say "I payed for medical insurance for years and never went over my deductable so I just wasted my money" the truth is that money wasn't wasted - it just went to pay someone else's bills. That may not come as much of a surprise to anyone, but what surprised me is that you don't have to pay someone else's bills. There's no rule or law that says you have to join group medical coverage. Most younger folks are just led to believe that the cheapest healthcare insurance is group coverage from work, but when you join a group you're assuming the costs of insuring everyone even if you're 20 and fit as an ox. If you're under 40 and in good health, call the local healthcare insurance outfits (Aetna, Humana, Blue Cross, etc.) and get some rates for individual coverage and you're probably going to find that your rates will be lower than what your company is offering. The average age for the consulting company I worked for last year was 60, and I'm only 44. I was paying $800/month for group coverage for medical/dental/ and life insurance. I called up Blue Cross and got much better coverage, and a package deal on medical/dental/life for $370 a month.
Both Blue Cross and Humana down here in Florida are also offering Choice insurance packages that allow individuals to better price out their coverage so if the hospital that you usually go to is mid-tier or low-tier on a cost per patient/treatment scale, you can benefit from the reduced costs with much lower rates. And if you're one of those folks who wants the paneling, piano lounge, and fancy rooms, you can pay for that as well.
Lastly, since insurance usually pays for most medical costs most people don't shop around for doctors or hospitals. They just go to wherever they go, and pay their 20% or 30% of their costs without having any idea if they're getting a good deal. What other goods or services do we shop for that way??? There's nothing at all preventing people from talking to their doctor or hospital and asking for an "Out The Door" price for the treatment. This sounds wierd, but there's nothing stopping a patient from doing that. Just say "I'm comparing overall costs, and if you want my business I want you to provide me with a cost upfront." I've seen provider data showing costs for treating a broken arm ranging from $400 to $3,800 for the same level of treatment. That's a difference between paying $120 and $1,140 out of pocket for the same treatment, and most folks have no idea that's money they didn't have to pay! There are medical brokerage services in CA that are negotiating deals for patients right now, and I'm hoping they'll be coming to Florida as well. That should yield even lower costs as they can cut lot deals.
ylexot
Super Genius
Vrai makes some good points, but that's not my reasoning.
My reasoning...a large part that the cost of health insurance is so high is because there is not much true competition. When companies pay for the health insurance, the employees don't know how much they are paying (for the most part). It is transparent to them. If they got more pay and had to go shop for their insurance, they would look a whole lot closer at what they are getting for their money. Thus, competition is born and insurance companies that want to stay in business will compete by lowering prices and/or bettering their services.
Yes, companies do create some competition when they look for providers, but I guarantee you that what the company wants from the insurance company and what you want are completely different. If the "consumer" of insurance is the company, the insurance provider will cater to the needs of the company, not the needs of the employees.
My reasoning...a large part that the cost of health insurance is so high is because there is not much true competition. When companies pay for the health insurance, the employees don't know how much they are paying (for the most part). It is transparent to them. If they got more pay and had to go shop for their insurance, they would look a whole lot closer at what they are getting for their money. Thus, competition is born and insurance companies that want to stay in business will compete by lowering prices and/or bettering their services.
Yes, companies do create some competition when they look for providers, but I guarantee you that what the company wants from the insurance company and what you want are completely different. If the "consumer" of insurance is the company, the insurance provider will cater to the needs of the company, not the needs of the employees.
What I have now is a catastrophic policy that covers me in the event of chronic illness or serious accident. I pay all dental, vision and regular doctor visits out of pocket. It's a heck of a lot cheaper than a full-coverage plan.slik said:
ylexot
Super Genius
Good point. I remember my dad saying that he thinks doctors should have a price list that is freely available (i.e. on a web site or something). Just imagine if a doctor came up with a price list, got prices from competing doctors in the area, and advertised them...PRICE WAR!Bruzilla said: