Sun made global warming???

Larry Gude

Strung Out
As...

You continue to clean up as regular part of progress and you study the potential problem - you are correct, we can't do anything about what the earth was already going to do, but why the hell would you want to screw with it beyond that point?

How is more nuclear plants going to lead us to war? EV's? nope. Actually, changing our economy from oil and goal to renewables, as we can, would strengthen our economy as more money would stay here. Yes, we could do that with our own oil and coal, but you do know, oil and coal spew other gasses that are classified by the EPA as toxic?

Tell me how more solar, nuclear, hydro, wind and others TBD will lead us to war? you are fear-mongering, plain and simple. How will EV's using new, non 'chemical' batteries leed to war? Where is all your war fears and economy woe fears coming from?

...we go to alternatives, oil and coal will become cheaper and cheaper and cheaper. That means MILLIONS of more cars around the globe as economies that simply can not afford nukes and solar and wind and hi end technologies will, naturally, use what makes sense.

This will also be the case as other nations and peoples add power plants and heat things and develop industries.

If you have a reasonable knowledge of human history, you'll notice a pattern of war being fought over wealth, resources and spheres of influence and power over the wealth and the resources.

If we are going to stand by and accept paying the equivalent of $4 a gallon gas and $150 a barrel oil to employ alternatives, we will not only be competing with nations that have fractional labor costs compared to us, but also energy costs a sixth or less than our own. It has been hard enough to absorb the labor disparity. Add energy to that and you should readily be able to see catastrophic US job loss.

You speak of accepting the massive artificial inflation of energy costs as a mere choice of long term good over short term discomfort. Well, add to that the massive artificial inflation in food and consumer goods coupled with less and less jobs. We're talking a collapse in exports and becoming, like Great Britain, a nation near totally dependent on imports. They are so because they are small. We would become so out of political choice. You're building a neighborhood that few will be able to afford to live in.

Now, the natural response to these sorts of threats over the years has been war. If we avoid war. We die. Or, at minimum, we are at the mercy of the nations of the world in a reverse of poverty much like a rich man who can not do anything for himself but shuffle paper; he pays others for everything and to do everything.

Now, your response will be, naturally, that we will be world leaders and everyone else will buy our great products. That is, of course, absurd.

Is India going to buy a $50,000 wonder car from us or a $5,000 internal combustion machine that also costs a fraction to operate?

Will anyone else put up nuke plants or carbon plants costing fractions to operate?

Oil has dropped nearly $40 a barrel because of slight demand decrease. If we, using of 25% of the daily global output, stop, oil will be under $25 a barrel, if that. And the carbon economy will EXPLODE around the world as
simple economics take hold.

:buddies:
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
That...

Newsflash - huge portions of population in Africa ARE dieing or being killed off and WE ARE NOT doing anything... why? No oil there, so the USA don't care! I would propose the opposite theory - as we immerge from our oil 'hangover' the USA might find itself able to care and help the people of this planet based on need instead of oil location.

...would be the wrong conclusion. There is plenty of oil in Africa. They can't afford to consume it. Were the able to, when it gets cheap enough, history has already taught us that boats can get to Africa just fine. That means tankers can, too.
 

drmatsci

New Member
...we go to alternatives, oil and coal will become cheaper and cheaper and cheaper. That means MILLIONS of more cars around the globe as economies that simply can not afford nukes and solar and wind and hi end technologies will, naturally, use what makes sense.

This will also be the case as other nations and peoples add power plants and heat things and develop industries.

If you have a reasonable knowledge of human history, you'll notice a pattern of war being fought over wealth, resources and spheres of influence and power over the wealth and the resources.

If we are going to stand by and accept paying the equivalent of $4 a gallon gas and $150 a barrel oil to employ alternatives, we will not only be competing with nations that have fractional labor costs compared to us, but also energy costs a sixth or less than our own. It has been hard enough to absorb the labor disparity. Add energy to that and you should readily be able to see catastrophic US job loss.

You speak of accepting the massive artificial inflation of energy costs as a mere choice of long term good over short term discomfort. Well, add to that the massive artificial inflation in food and consumer goods coupled with less and less jobs. We're talking a collapse in exports and becoming, like Great Britain, a nation near totally dependent on imports. They are so because they are small. We would become so out of political choice. You're building a neighborhood that few will be able to afford to live in.

Now, the natural response to these sorts of threats over the years has been war. If we avoid war. We die. Or, at minimum, we are at the mercy of the nations of the world in a reverse of poverty much like a rich man who can not do anything for himself but shuffle paper; he pays others for everything and to do everything.

Now, your response will be, naturally, that we will be world leaders and everyone else will buy our great products. That is, of course, absurd.

Is India going to buy a $50,000 wonder car from us or a $5,000 internal combustion machine that also costs a fraction to operate?

Will anyone else put up nuke plants or carbon plants costing fractions to operate?

Oil has dropped nearly $40 a barrel because of slight demand decrease. If we, using of 25% of the daily global output, stop, oil will be under $25 a barrel, if that. And the carbon economy will EXPLODE around the world as
simple economics take hold.

:buddies:

I assume you don't believe in 'Peak Oil' then? Or that production of oil will also get more and more expnsive? Again, fear mongering - EV's will not be 50,000 and the fact that china and india may initially use more oil isn't an excuse for us not to do the right thing. China and Inida alone within 20 years will use far more oil then we could dream to use here and by then what we use or don't use will be trivial - oil will be expensive - and harder to get - and we could be near oil free or still buying expensive gas. As mass production begins the smallest EV's will be on par with the small car prices of today, so don't tell me i am building a neigborhood only for the rich. Even the chevy volt, which is obtusely expensive, won't be 50,000. Where is this massive inflation going to come from? A large part of infaltion has been FROM OIL. So being free of it would stableize things, not make them worse.

Sorry, but I don't buy your arguments, sadly, too many conservatives do. Its fear mongering. And politics from rich folk that don't want their hummer to be taken away...
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Peak...

I assume you don't believe in 'Peak Oil' then? Or that production of oil will also get more and more expnsive? Again, fear mongering - EV's will not be 50,000 and the fact that china and india may initially use more oil isn't an excuse for us not to do the right thing. China and Inida alone within 20 years will use far more oil then we could dream to use here and by then what we use or don't use will be trivial - oil will be expensive - and harder to get - and we could be near oil free or still buying expensive gas. As mass production begins the smallest EV's will be on par with the small car prices of today, so don't tell me i am building a neigborhood only for the rich. Even the chevy volt, which is obtusely expensive, won't be 50,000. Where is this massive inflation going to come from? A large part of infaltion has been FROM OIL. So being free of it would stableize things, not make them worse.

Sorry, but I don't buy your arguments, sadly, too many conservatives do. Its fear mongering. And politics from rich folk that don't want their hummer to be taken away...

...oil is about the same as 'flat earth' minus the boat eating dragons. Peak oil assumes some thins that aren't true;

1. All the oil was made a long time ago and there is only so much.
2. There isn't all that much.
3. It's not being made any more.
4. There isn't much oil, yet, somehow, the richest corporations in the history of the planet are firmly rooted in long term, long time oil production.

If Peak Oil is true, oil companies are the equivalent of the man who expands his buggy whip output to meet Model T production.

However, peak oil, if true, which it's not, will be the BEST argument for your ideas and will be the motivating force behind going to alternatives because they become the better option, not the feel good option.

I think it is a hoot you calling me a fear mongering, or my position, when it's your argument that is expressly based in and on fear! :lmao:

The ONLY way you're little Chevy Volt world prevails is if it is cheaper than internal combustion, be it $50,000 vs. $5,000 or $25,000 vs. $10,000. Even if state of the art EV vehicles beat out what we have now, which it CAN'T, the generation argument is next in line. So, while we're merrily wrecking our economy, the rest of the world will, as you point out, be belching far more carbon waste than your worst nightmare.

Now, if we burn up oil, now we're getting somewhere. We CAN change to alternatives, but it's going to have to be incremental and it's gonna take decades, perhaps 50 years and it's gonna have NOTHING to do with the environment. This is economics 101.

Not much I can do with you if you reject simple economics.
 

Solja_Boy

New Member
...then you'll be able to die in style and comfort.

:buddies:

I won't die from the sun. It is fireproof and air conditioned. The only flaw is that they built it on the 3rd floor of the house. If my house burns down around it I could be in for quite a fall.
 

Lenny

Lovin' being Texican
I wonder how much mercury...

No not THE Prophecy its called Prophecy about animals in a Lake being mutated due to mercury (i think) its an older movie (late 70's early 80's)


....a logging company can pour into a swamp. Must be some really f@cked up trees in that swamp.


But, no, I haven't see that Talia Shire hit.
 

ItalianScallion

Harley Rider
...should Algore be penalized for starting his own cult? He can sell ice cubes on the North Pole all day long. It's not his fault if some moron buys them.
I agree about the morons but he kinda yelled "fire" in a movie theater and that's what I'm accusing him of. He can have his moron following but, he affects too many of us who don't follow him so he's gotta pay.
Funny, Larry, it looks to me like you are the one THAT KNOWS global warming can't be real.
Looks to me, Dr. Matsci, that you're in the majority who doesn't know it. As stated many times here already: global warming is not man made so NOTHING that man does can solve it!!! See?
Newsflash - huge portions of population in Africa ARE dieing or being killed off and WE ARE NOT doing anything... why? No oil there, so the USA don't care! I would propose the opposite theory - as we immerge from our oil 'hangover' the USA might find itself able to care and help the people of this planet based on need instead of oil location.
Who elected us as Africa's keeper? Or anyone's keeper for that matter? Don't we help enough countries while we're going to hell in a basket here? Didn't we just give those aids makers 43 billion dollars for aids research? You must be a bleeding heart lib too, eh?
PS: dying is not spelled dieing, Doctor.
 

Kohburn

'95 ZX6R
Looks to me, Dr. Matsci, that you're in the majority who doesn't know it. As stated many times here already: global warming is not man made so NOTHING that man does can solve it!!! See?

right so lets focus on the financial benefits to alternative fuels, grid tie solar systems, and the ways that polution kills our food supply.

forget global warming. if we keep poluting the world and killing our food supply we'll be dieing off long before the oceans rise a foot.
 

ylexot

Super Genius
right so lets focus on the financial benefits to alternative fuels, grid tie solar systems, and the ways that polution kills our food supply.

forget global warming. if we keep poluting the world and killing our food supply we'll be dieing off long before the oceans rise a foot.
Our food supply likes CO2. :shrug:
 
R

RadioPatrol

Guest
your arrogant to think MAN could effect the climate on a global scale with anything less that Nuclear Winter ....

Is pollution bad ...

yes of course ... cleaner Air is good for everyone ....

Hmm 11 yr Solar Activity cycle warms the planet .... :whistle:

funny how suddenly this yr GW has been put on hold :evil:
 
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