Tallying votes

[Railroad]

Without rancor, can we talk about what the flaws and the strengths are in the election process? I for one was surprised in 2000 to see the wide variety of voting equipment and techniques. What do you think are the best safeguards against voting fraud? What method of voting do you like best? Do you think elections should be run differently, and if so, how?

 

[vraiblonde]

The ONLY safeguard against voting fraud and irregularity is to not let humans participate in the voting process. Really.

The minute you think you have something dummy-proofed, along comes a bigger dummy. And voter fraud is something that will never go away, as long as there are dishonest people in the world.

I have NEVER had a problem voting, and I've never walked out of the voting booth wondering if I chose the guy I meant to choose. But apparently, a lot of Democrats do that - can't remember if they picked the guy they meant to or not and can't draw a line between two arrows or punch out a circle next to a particular candidates name.

So maybe the solution is to not let Democrats vote, since they're the ones that seem to have so much trouble with it.

 

[vraiblonde]

Oh...wait....was that rancorous?

 

[BuddyLee]

No matter who wins or loses, every vote should be counted! I loathe the people who say "every vote won't be able to be counted". This is a democracy and our country and our future, let's make sure we get it right.

 

[ylexot]

No matter who wins or loses, every vote should be counted! I loathe the people who say "every vote won't be able to be counted". This is a democracy and our country and our future, let's make sure we get it right.

But every vote that is made according to the rules is counted. Why should we bend/change the rules because somebody is too stupid to follow simple instructions?

 

[Railroad]

Oh...wait....was that rancorous?

SHAME on you!

 

[BuddyLee]

But every vote that is made according to the rules is counted. Why should we bend/change the rules because somebody is too stupid to follow simple instructions?

Simply that, if you don't follow the rules then your vote doesn't count. Too bad, so sad. I'm talking more about ensuring a perfect count of the people who did follow the rules.

 

[Railroad]

No matter who wins or loses, every vote should be counted! I loathe the people who say "every vote won't be able to be counted". This is a democracy and our country and our future, let's make sure we get it right.

Okay, good point. With absentee ballots, which sometimes don't make it through the mail for a long time (thus missing the election), how would you (a) get them out early enough to get a response in time and (b) decide how to handle absentees that chose not to vote?

 

[Railroad]

But every vote that is made according to the rules is counted. Why should we bend/change the rules because somebody is too stupid to follow simple instructions?

Well, IMHO, if someone is that stupid he or she is probably too stupid to make a valid choice among candidates anyway.

 

[ylexot]

Simply that, if you don't follow the rules then your vote doesn't count. Too bad, so sad. I'm talking more about ensuring a perfect count of the people who did follow the rules.

Ok, so who followed the rules and didn't have their votes counted?

 

[BuddyLee]

Ok, so who followed the rules and didn't have their votes counted?

With such a massive election 'many' say they are not able to achieve perfection thus leaving out votes.

 

[ylexot]

With such a massive election 'many' say they are not able to achieve perfection thus leaving out votes.

Oh, you're talking about the statistical error in the count. Yeah, that's been around since the beginning of voting, but has gotten better through technology. Typically, the error is insignificant and will not affect the outcome. However, there is usually an automatic recount built into the laws (I don't know all of them to say for certain) if the decision difference is close to the statistical error.

 

[Toxick]

What do you think are the best safeguards against voting fraud?

First of all we remove ALL computers from the process. Not because computers are flawed, but because the public perception of them is naive, and easily manipulated by the media/entertainment industry. Remove that perception – remove that part of the problem.

A list of voters is provided to the voting facility. Cameras are directed at the line, and as each person shows up to vote, their name is crossed off the list.

If someone shows up a second time to try to vote, or otherwise tries to scam the system, they are immediately decapitated, and their head is affixed to a pike in front of the voting facility as a warning to others.

Then, instead of computers and booths and chad-punchers or any of these goddamn fancy-shmancy techniques, each voting complex has ONE LINE, that leads to a sealed & locked steel/lead/titanium impenetrable alloy box, each with a teeny-tiny paper-thin slot in the top. When a person in line reaches the box, they are given a slip of paper and a permanent magic marker. They write a name on the paper with the marker. (If they can't write, they don't vote - sorry). They then slip the paper into the slot at the top of the box and are required to LEAVE THE EFFING PREMISES IMMEDIATELY.

Anyone who does not leave the effing premises immediately is immediately decapitated, and their head is affixed to a pike in front of the voting facility as a warning to others.

After a specified time (say, 2100 hours) nobody else is allowed into the line.

When the remainder of the line has voted, the sealed box is driven to a central location where two people are assigned to each box. One person reads off names on ballots. The other records them. If the name on the ballot is not a valid candidate it is ignored. As each name is read from the ballot, the ballot is thrown into an incendiary box and turned to ash.

If any counter/recorder is discovered to be lying, they are immediately decapitated, and their head is affixed to a pike in front of the White House as a warning to others.

Fairly straightforward, I think.

 

[Railroad]

First of all we remove ALL computers from the process. Not because computers are flawed, but because the public perception of them is naive, and easily manipulated by the media/entertainment industry. Remove that perception – remove that part of the problem.

A list of voters is provided to the voting facility. Cameras are directed at the line, and as each person shows up to vote, their name is crossed off the list.

If someone shows up a second time to try to vote, or otherwise tries to scam the system, they are immediately decapitated, and their head is affixed to a pike in front of the voting facility as a warning to others.

Then, instead of computers and booths and chad-punchers or any of these goddamn fancy-shmancy techniques, each voting complex has ONE LINE, that leads to a sealed & locked steel/lead/titanium impenetrable alloy box, each with a teeny-tiny paper-thin slot in the top. When a person in line reaches the box, they are given a slip of paper and a permanent magic marker. They write a name on the paper with the marker. (If they can't write, they don't vote - sorry). They then slip the paper into the slot at the top of the box and are required to LEAVE THE EFFING PREMISES IMMEDIATELY.

Anyone who does not leave the effing premises immediately is immediately decapitated, and their head is affixed to a pike in front of the voting facility as a warning to others.

After a specified time (say, 2100 hours) nobody else is allowed into the line.

When the remainder of the line has voted, the sealed box is driven to a central location where two people are assigned to each box. One person reads off names on ballots. The other records them. If the name on the ballot is not a valid candidate it is ignored. As each name is read from the ballot, the ballot is thrown into an incendiary box and turned to ash.

If any counter/recorder is discovered to be lying, they are immediately decapitated, and their head is affixed to a pike in front of the White House as a warning to others.

Fairly straightforward, I think.

MAN! You don't have strong feelings about this, do you?

 

[Llwynog]

Fairly straightforward, I think.

Fairly midevil, I think.

Can we decapitate those who commit voter registration fraud too.

 

[Bruzilla]

If IBM can place a thumbprint scanner for security purposes on a laptop, why can't we do the same on a voting machine? Anyone can use multiple fake IDs to vote again and again, but you've only got one thumbprint. The voter comes in, runs their thumb over the scanner, is identified, and votes.

Of course, I'm sure that those felons who might not like the government having access to their thumb print might be intimidated, but who wants them voting anyhow.

 

[vraiblonde]

I think our voting process works just fine. There is a statistical margin of error in any voting situation that involves large numbers of people. And, as someone mentioned earlier, it's almost never enough to make a difference in the outcome and there's a recount process in place for the rare instance that it might make a difference.

There's nothing you can do about the dummies that can't seem to cast a proper ballot that any reasonable third grader can understand. If their vote doesn't get counted properly, that's their problem - they shouldn't be so stupid.

As far as fraud goes, the penalty for this needs to be so high that it acts as a deterrent. I'm not averse to Tox's head on a pike scenario. I am totally against provisional ballots - if you didn't care enough to get your butt down and register to vote in a timely fashion, that's your problem and you shouldn't be allowed to vote in that election.

I have no idea what happened to those people that were plying the homeless with food and cigarettes to get them to vote, but they should have had a hefty fine or at least a jail sentence. My suspicion is that this little bit of fraud went unpunished, which means they'll do it again and again because there's no reason not to.

 

[SamSpade]

We had people claiming they were "disenfranchised" because they were *intimidated* by the presence of police.

Please.

I mean, you want everyone's vote to count, but this is just ridiculous. Now, we're supposed to make people 'comfortable'? We're supposed to read minds?

I think votes need to be able to be tracked, in the event of a close election - it never sat well with me that my vote on the old voting machines was just a notch on a mechanical wheel that could easily be lost by some butterfingered election worker. The paper ballot, with electronic scanning should work fine. You have a paper trail, and the efficiency of the machines.

What I don't want is people trying to second guess what the voter *MEANT* to vote for. Hey, if you fill out the SAT wrong, tough - there goes your college career. You're voting for the most powerful man in the world. Damn right you'd better get it right if you want it to count.

I'm also for a national holiday, for elections. I know people have been all over about this, but we're just about the only nation that doesn't do this. Wouldn't it just make sense to have the day off, get it done? That way, we wouldn't have to close the polls at 7 or 8 in the evening?

 

[ylexot]

I am totally against provisional ballots - if you didn't care enough to get your butt down and register to vote in a timely fashion, that's your problem and you shouldn't be allowed to vote in that election.

It's not like the election is a surprise. We're already talking about an election that's years away.

 

[Railroad]

Thank you very much Bruz, Vrai, Sam and Yle for your posts!! GREAT discussion! Just what I was hoping for!