Tax Cut!

[ThayerP]

I had a close friend of mine once that had a really radical idea for a "tax".

He pointed to countries like Germany and Britain who have a national lottery open to all nationalities. It works similar to any other lottery only on a larger scale. They allow any nationality to buy lottery tickets and have weekly drawings. The idea is that this brings money from outside the country into the country. It also allows the poeple in the country to voluntarily contribute. His idea was to set it up so it could be done through a payroll deduction type plan and the employee's would choose the numbers they want to play one time. Then if they want more tickets they can buy them at lottery outlets.

What about that plan? Sound too far out there?

 

[Bruzilla]

I agree with Dems that the national sales tax is a bad idea, but for different reasons. The sales of some items such as food, fuel, and other necessities always remains fairly consistent, but the sales of other items can rollercoaster wildly as markets change. It would be tough to work a budget when the available funds may vary widely from year to year.

By the way Dems, thanks for looking into the Mr. Nike thing, but I couldn't help but notice that you still miss the point I was making. Your statement of "Under that plan according to economists, a person earning $45,000 has a $1200 tax increase if there is a flat tax because tax credits are no longer applicable in the flat tax scenario. Yet a person earning $200,000 would receive a $10,000 tax break. Is that fair?" continues to show that you're wanting to show one side of the story to support your idea of fairness. What would be fair is to also compare the amount of tax dollars being payed out by the person making $200,000 and the person making $45,000. The truth is that the person making the lower amount is paying less of their share of taxes because the wealthier taxpayer is paying them for both.

Let's look at this on a slightly smaller scale. My kids, like most kids, have a very limited concept of money because they don't have to really pay for anything. They leave lights on, waste food and sodas, damage furniture, etc., and don't understand why Mom and Dad get so mad because they aren't the ones who have to find the money to replace/repair what has been wasted or damaged. They don't understand why they have to shop at WalMart for clothes instead of Old Navy, or why they can't have a $200 pair of Nikes. It isn't until they have to start working to earn the money, start paying the bills and the taxes, and begin having to pass on doing/buying things they want because money has to be spent on paying for the kids's actions and needs that they realize why their parents did what they did.

It's the same deal here. Most people making less than $30k or so, who have kids, generally pay little or nothing in federal taxes. So these people don't feel much of a drag by being taxed. They want the services, they want the programs, because they don't have to pay for them. That's why I like the idea of a flat tax. Everyone pays a fair share whether it's 17% of $11,000 or 17% of $20,000,000. Maybe once everyone's having to pony up to fill the till they'll be a bit more choosey about how the money is spent.

 

[SamSpade]

Originally posted by ThayerP


Overall, GW is correct in thinking that putting money in the hands of Americans will increase the money flow and boost the economy. I just think they should increase it substantially more than they are.

I think it would help if they were able to lower payroll tax for the lowest taxpayers, for a short period of time, IF the intent is to stimulate consumers. People at the top of the money pile tend to set their extra cash aside - yeah, it's in the money supply, but it isn't being spent on anything. People on the low end will SPEND it, which is the boost the economy needs.

 

[ThayerP]

Originally posted by Bruzilla
I agree with Dems that the national sales tax is a bad idea, but for different reasons. The sales of some items such as food, fuel, and other necessities always remains fairly consistent, but the sales of other items can rollercoaster wildly as markets change. It would be tough to work a budget when the available funds may vary widely from year to year.

Not true. There are taxes collected on fuel already. Several states have been successful in using a state sales tax as opposed to a state income tax. They have been doing this for many years. As for the fluctuation in available funds, why should the government work any different from a normal corporation? The budget can be made. The flow of revenue can be monitored easily with POS systems reporting sales taxes. This is no different than what is currently being done at lower level government now. To me this is just one excuse that gets thrown up all the time in an attempt to keep a national sales tax from being implemented.

Income taxes have not worked well for many years now. It's time to look at what is working at lower levels and copy it.

 

[Bruzilla]

In most states sales tax is not collected on fuels. Most heating fuels are tax-free, and gasoline taxes are special taxes collected for specific purposes.

"Several states have been successful in using a state sales tax as opposed to a state income tax. They have been doing this for many years." States like Florida that have no personal income tax rely on a lot of business taxes to meet the budget, not just a sales tax. There's no way that any state can pay its bills on sales taxes alone.

"As for the fluctuation in available funds, why should the government work any different from a normal corporation?" Because a "normal corporation" operates on a profit motive. If business drops, business reduces benefits, services, sells off assets, and laysoff employees. Try getting the government to do that everytime there's a slack off in the auto, home, or other major purchase markets.

"This is no different than what is currently being done at lower level government now. " That's like saying the manager of a mom and pop hardware store is ready to run General Motors. There are huge differences between funding state governments and funding the United States budget. If the local government in Possum Hollow runs out of money the potholes don't get fixed. If the USG runs out you've got serious problems on a global scale.