Teachers Strike Mt. Harmony

[SG_Player1974]

Are you 6? I surely hope your post is tounge/cheek and that you simply failed to add some text that would make certain it comes across as sarcasm.

Teachers are notoriously underpaid - always have been. If you look at any other profession that REQUIRES you to have a Master's Degree (within a certain allowance of time), that distinction is even more obvious. Above this, when you take into consideration the amount of time they invest in their class that falls outside of their "work day" or the amount of money they pull from their own pocket ......... your statements become even more inaccurate. Based on your statements, I would wager highly that their education on average far exeeds your own.

Don't get me wrong, there are bad apples in every batch just as in any other line of employment. But many teachers get drug down by the failures of their school system and state. Funding is down. Class sizes are up. In order to combat reduced budgets, teachers are being asked to do FAR more than ever before (added responsibilities, losing planning time, etc.). If they want specialized material for their classes - many times they have to come out of pocket. Field trips are pretty much nixed depriving kids of seeing first hand examples of what they are being taught.

I could go on and on.

And now many are putting their foot down and they should. Many don't get reimbursed for the advanced education they must attain and when you barely make $30,000/year - you don't have the easiest time paying off loans/debt, let alone have much left over for "life". All they are doing now is saying "we will work to the deal - nothing more." No more extras. That is fine by me. If they can't get anywhere with negotiatins because rates are "always" frozen - then they can negotiate with scope. Normal practice.

Keep in mind, these people are in it for the love of teaching cause they damn sure don't go down the education route for the money. And to further that, if you complain about the amout of "talent" in the teaching industry, the only logical thing to do is to consider increasing the payscale across the industry to attack "better" talent. Make it a lucrative career to enter. Make it the salary/perks worth the investment in education and time.

As of right now, why spend your money and time on college to make $30,000/year when you can commit the same money and time in college and make twice that at entry level in another profession (and not have to attain a Masters degree)? That is a large part of the problem.

I wouldn't mind seeing some numbers to back up these statements. The last I looked, entry-level teaching positions in SMC paid ~$45K. This can go as high as ~$90-95K depending on position and education.

Also, class sizes going up and budgets going down have been happening for DECADES! I remember this being a problem when I was a kid in school. I still do not remember having to go "back-to-school" shopping with my parents for pencils, paper, etc. to the tune of $200 each time (2-3 times per year)

Got any links to back this up?

 

[Hannibal]

I wouldn't mind seeing some numbers to back up these statements. The last I looked, entry-level teaching positions in SMC paid ~$45K. This can go as high as ~$90-95K depending on position and education.

Also, class sizes going up and budgets going down have been happening for DECADES! I remember this being a problem when I was a kid in school. I still do not remember having to go "back-to-school" shopping with my parents for pencils, paper, etc. to the tune of $200 each time (2-3 times per year)

Got any links to back this up?

Didn't spend too much time scouring the internet but for a quick / dirty - I offer regarding the degree requirement (or also equivellant certification):

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/20...ers-new-teacher-contract-teacher-compensation

"For example, the MSDE requires Maryland teachers obtain a master's degree (or its equivalent in coursework) to qualify for an Advanced Professional Certificate that permits them to continue to teach. Maryland already has an elaborate accountability system that holds school districts responsible for student learning. Local school systems should be left free to decide how to improve teacher quality.

There are several reasons why now is the time for the state to remove obstacles, such as the master's degree requirement, from the path of developing and compensating teachers for effective teaching."

Salary wise is dependant on jurisdiction. I know Charles County has an AVERAGE salary of about $55,000/year. Entry level in the range of high 30's. And I don't doubt that some teachers with a tremendous tenure in particular subjects (in high school) can reach pay levels of $90k/year. But in comparison to other fields/industries - you find me other relevant examples where you can carry an advanced degree with 30+ years and the going rate is $90k/year.

As for reimbursement, it depends on who you are working with. I am not a teacher but my mother was one for 35 years and my MIL is currently one. My MIL had to complete her master's degree in something like 5 years from the start of her employment and has to continue to take certification course (upkeeps) each year. She was not reimbursed for her UMD master's degree (at least nowhere close to any significant portion). The "payoff" appears to be in the form of an increased salary once complete. For the record, my mother didn't attain the masters. She was grandfathered in due to tenure but had to complete some significant amount of education credits/certs within a certain timeframe. Both teach Elem. Ed.

And I am not sure how you fail to see that class sizes are up. The headlines for years had hollered about this very issue. I am not that old and don't recall class sizes near what my son has had the past two years. As for $600/year in school supplies - I am not sure where you got that from. I do know that we spent a good bit of money buying supplies for the classroom this year. Things like packs of loose-leaf paper, boxes of pencils, packages of glue sticks, scissors, even Kleenex boxes (he's in 1rst). When I was a kid, it was a bookbag, a couple folders (maybe some spiral notebooks), some pens/pencils, etc - that stayed on your person. Now, it's an excessive amount donated to the class.

As for teacher expeses - I've seen this first hand with the two folks I've previously mentioned. But they both value(d) the benefit of using what they bought vs. not making the purchase.

 

[Smith]

Here is a link to the contract and salary scales for Calvert County teachers:
http://www.calvertnet.k12.md.us/dep...documents/agreement/CEAAgreement2013-2014.pdf

See Appendix A for the salary scales. Those figures look even more attractive when you consider they work less than 190 days per year, and those days are 7½ hours long, which includes the 30 minutes they get for lunch.

 

[kom526]

Here is a link to the contract and salary scales for Calvert County teachers:
http://www.calvertnet.k12.md.us/dep...documents/agreement/CEAAgreement2013-2014.pdf

See Appendix A for the salary scales. Those figures look even more attractive when you consider they work less than 190 days per year, and those days are 7½ hours long, which includes the 30 minutes they get for lunch.

Gross pay looks awesome on paper. 30 minutes for lunch? Your conclusions can be thrown in circular file as well.

 

[Smith]

Gross pay looks awesome on paper. 30 minutes for lunch? Your conclusions can be thrown in circular file as well.

Gross pay always looks better than net pay. Not sure what your point is. You think I'm making up the 30 minutes for lunch? If you read the contract it's in Article 6.1

 

[kom526]

Gross pay always looks better than net pay. Not sure what your point is. You think I'm making up the 30 minutes for lunch? If you read the contract it's in Article 6.1

30 minutes to lunch, make head calls, call parents and answer emails. Line up volunteer work, make copies and work on lesson plans, etc. You know, the step increases were "in the contract" for St. Mary's teachers yet they took another pay cut this year.

 

[SG_Player1974]

Didn't spend too much time scouring the internet but for a quick / dirty - I offer regarding the degree requirement (or also equivellant certification):

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/20...ers-new-teacher-contract-teacher-compensation

"For example, the MSDE requires Maryland teachers obtain a master's degree (or its equivalent in coursework) to qualify for an Advanced Professional Certificate that permits them to continue to teach. Maryland already has an elaborate accountability system that holds school districts responsible for student learning. Local school systems should be left free to decide how to improve teacher quality.

There are several reasons why now is the time for the state to remove obstacles, such as the master's degree requirement, from the path of developing and compensating teachers for effective teaching."

Salary wise is dependant on jurisdiction. I know Charles County has an AVERAGE salary of about $55,000/year. Entry level in the range of high 30's. And I don't doubt that some teachers with a tremendous tenure in particular subjects (in high school) can reach pay levels of $90k/year. But in comparison to other fields/industries - you find me other relevant examples where you can carry an advanced degree with 30+ years and the going rate is $90k/year.

As for reimbursement, it depends on who you are working with. I am not a teacher but my mother was one for 35 years and my MIL is currently one. My MIL had to complete her master's degree in something like 5 years from the start of her employment and has to continue to take certification course (upkeeps) each year. She was not reimbursed for her UMD master's degree (at least nowhere close to any significant portion). The "payoff" appears to be in the form of an increased salary once complete. For the record, my mother didn't attain the masters. She was grandfathered in due to tenure but had to complete some significant amount of education credits/certs within a certain timeframe. Both teach Elem. Ed.

And I am not sure how you fail to see that class sizes are up. The headlines for years had hollered about this very issue. I am not that old and don't recall class sizes near what my son has had the past two years. As for $600/year in school supplies - I am not sure where you got that from. I do know that we spent a good bit of money buying supplies for the classroom this year. Things like packs of loose-leaf paper, boxes of pencils, packages of glue sticks, scissors, even Kleenex boxes (he's in 1rst). When I was a kid, it was a bookbag, a couple folders (maybe some spiral notebooks), some pens/pencils, etc - that stayed on your person. Now, it's an excessive amount donated to the class.

As for teacher expeses - I've seen this first hand with the two folks I've previously mentioned. But they both value(d) the benefit of using what they bought vs. not making the purchase.

Thank you for the links.. very informative.

As for the class sizes, what type of numbers are you referring to? When I was back in school (a long time ago... ugg) I remember the teachers complaining about increasing class sizes and workload. I was merely pointing out the fact that increasing class sizes is never going to stop unless massive school construction efforts curb it. This, we all know, probably will not happen though.

As for school supplies, I have 2 children in elementary school. You forgot to mention wet wipes for the ENTIRE class, dry erase markers, hand sanitizer, etc. Things that I would think are not particularly relevant to the individual child but is more for the classroom.

@kom526

Dont the teachers have summers and in-service days to work on lesson plans, line up volunteer work, etc. When I was in school, the teachers didn't have in-service days and they sure as hell didn't get days off for a heavy rain! They did most of their planning and prep work over the summer. You know... that time where they were paid and were not in the school house.

 

[Smith]

30 minutes to lunch, make head calls, call parents and answer emails. Line up volunteer work, make copies and work on lesson plans, etc. You know, the step increases were "in the contract" for St. Mary's teachers yet they took another pay cut this year.

No, those items can be done during their 45 minute contractual planning period. BTW, not getting a pay increase is not a pay cut.

 

[kom526]

Dont the teachers have summers and in-service days to work on lesson plans, line up volunteer work, etc. When I was in school, the teachers didn't have in-service days and they sure as hell didn't get days off for a heavy rain! They did most of their planning and prep work over the summer. You know... that time where they were paid and were not in the school house.

Not really. They have the summers to maintain their certifications, work on their masters etc. The curriculum changes pretty much every year so how can you plan for what new crap the Fed and State throws at you?

I get it you hate teachers. Fine. If you had half an inkling of how their pay was structured you would know why they get paid through the summer.

 

[kom526]

No, those items can be done during their 45 minute contractual planning period. BTW, not getting a pay increase is not a pay cut.

But losing money from your paycheck IS a pay cut. Actually the emails, calling parents etc are not allowed to be done during the planning period. Let me guess how much experience you have in a classroom.

 

[Smith]

But losing money from your paycheck IS a pay cut. Actually the emails, calling parents etc are not allowed to be done during the planning period. Let me guess how much experience you have in a classroom.

How are you losing money from your paycheck? Higher taxes, insurance, etc.? Having more money withheld from your paycheck does not change the rate you are paid, just the amount of money you take home. Which school district prohibits teachers from contacting parents during their planning period?

 

[intertidal]

I wouldn't mind seeing some numbers to back up these statements. The last I looked, entry-level teaching positions in SMC paid ~$45K. This can go as high as ~$90-95K depending on position and education.

SMC and some others are not honoring their pay scales, so why are you using them? Many of the teachers I know are in it only for the students they call "their kids". My wife, after 8 years in SMC, with a MS in a hard science field and a later MA in a teaching specialty, made a little over 43K last year (box 1 w-2) - which is less than half what she made in a gov't lab almost 20 years ago. This is a woman who never received less than an A in her life in the toughest classes offered and who still leaves the house at 0535 to get to school when security opens the door at 0600 to make copies for "her kids". When she gets home around 5, she'll break for 30 min and then work to 1130 or so. The major reason for the low pay is that the IRS does not consider the pension contribution to be income, so it is not included in the W-2 box 1. Teachers and state workers have no choice but to make a forced contribution to a nearly worthless pension that is not worth the 7% contribution. The other reason for the pay remaining low is that counties have not honored the step increases of their published pay scales.

I know teachers going on 40 years of experience who do not make anywhere close to 90K. That is pay for principals, not teachers. The teachers who are left in the field after most leave in the first 3 years are not in it for the money.

Its obvious that you hate teachers. Why not people who contribute nothing to society yet earn more than every teacher in a school combined - like hedge fund managers, CEOs who create value for themselves only, venture capitalists, lobbyists, and the politicians they buy.

 

[vince77]

My wife retired from teaching in public schools here in SoMd a few years ago. I believe she was making in the fifties when she left. Her biggest complaints were too much drama during state testing, administrative follies, and the fact you have to be "on" every day when you come to work. She had some student government additional responsibilities which may have kept her an extra hour at work every couple weeks but otherwise a 8.5 hour day. She had an instructional assistant and two planning periods most years and I never saw her bringing work home. She got about two months off in the summer and every few years had to take some kind of course to maintain her certification. She may have been minimally underpaid, but she wasn't commuting 3 hours a day either.

 

[intertidal]

Congrats to your wife on her retirement! Very few last that long. I hope that she was in the "old retirement system" for teachers who started before 1-1-1980 rather than the garbage pension system post 1-1-1980.
Some counties, like SMC, are cutting the instructional assistants and para-educators while increasing the integration of more IEPs and non-english speakers to the regular classes.
My wife is doing it for the kids. I'm not very supportive considering how teachers are treated today and encourage her to retire. And she ignores that unsolicited advice.

 

[rolltide]

Teachers take pay cut

Are you 6? I surely hope your post is tounge/cheek and that you simply failed to add some text that would make certain it comes across as sarcasm.

Teachers are notoriously underpaid - always have been. If you look at any other profession that REQUIRES you to have a Master's Degree (within a certain allowance of time), that distinction is even more obvious. Above this, when you take into consideration the amount of time they invest in their class that falls outside of their "work day" or the amount of money they pull from their own pocket ......... your statements become even more inaccurate. Based on your statements, I would wager highly that their education on average far exeeds your own.

Don't get me wrong, there are bad apples in every batch just as in any other line of employment. But many teachers get drug down by the failures of their school system and state. Funding is down. Class sizes are up. In order to combat reduced budgets, teachers are being asked to do FAR more than ever before (added responsibilities, losing planning time, etc.). If they want specialized material for their classes - many times they have to come out of pocket. Field trips are pretty much nixed depriving kids of seeing first hand examples of what they are being taught.

I could go on and on.

And now many are putting their foot down and they should. Many don't get reimbursed for the advanced education they must attain and when you barely make $30,000/year - you don't have the easiest time paying off loans/debt, let alone have much left over for "life". All they are doing now is saying "we will work to the deal - nothing more." No more extras. That is fine by me. If they can't get anywhere with negotiatins because rates are "always" frozen - then they can negotiate with scope. Normal practice.

Keep in mind, these people are in it for the love of teaching cause they damn sure don't go down the education route for the money. And to further that, if you complain about the amout of "talent" in the teaching industry, the only logical thing to do is to consider increasing the payscale across the industry to attack "better" talent. Make it a lucrative career to enter. Make it the salary/perks worth the investment in education and time.

As of right now, why spend your money and time on college to make $30,000/year when you can commit the same money and time in college and make twice that at entry level in another profession (and not have to attain a Masters degree)? That is a large part of the problem.

In Calvert county this year, teachers at the top of the pay scale took a 1% pay cut.

 

[rolltide]

Most people who moved to Calvert County in the past 30 years did so because of the schools. The county benefits greatly from having quality teachers.

 

[rolltide]

Several years ago, the state raised by 2% the amount teachers paid into the State Retirement system. However, the money did NOT go to teacher retirement; O'Malley hijacked it for the general fund.

 

[intertidal]

Several years ago, the state raised by 2% the amount teachers paid into the State Retirement system. However, the money did NOT go to teacher retirement; O'Malley hijacked it for the general fund.

At the time, teachers and state workers had been paying 5% of their pay to the state pension fund. Even that amount was a rip-off for the worst pension in the US. A 40% increase from 5% to 7% was proposed in 2011 to increase the funding level of the pension fund to make up for years of theft from the fund by the governor and legislators for their pet projects. At the last minute, the legislature changed the increase so the extra 2% goes to the general fund. Every legislator knows this as the "teacher tax" (even though state workers also pay it). That increase in state taxes resulted in teachers paying the highest effective state income tax rate in MD and the US. No millionaire in MD pays a higher state income tax rate.

And to top it off, the pension fund is at a lower funding level today (61%) than in 2011 (66%) because the governor and legislature continue to use it as a slush fund.

MD may be the only state in which a non-match 401K would be better for new teachers and state workers than the existing pension. It is little more than a tax, and for those who leave before the 10 year vesting period, it is a forced interest-free loan to the state.

 

[ChesBchSportsmn]

Most people who moved to Calvert County in the past 30 years did so because of the schools. The county benefits greatly from having quality teachers.

I suggest you volunteer at one of Calvert County's public schools or get a support staff job so you can see what "quality teachers" Calvert County really has. You will find teachers who joke with students about drug use, teachers who have no control over their classroom, teachers who cuss (including the f word) during their classroom discussions (one guy has been counseled by principal in office for this more than one time...he still does it from what I understand), teachers who apparently regularly booze it up on the weekends, teachers who do not discipline their students for making racial slurs, teachers who let their students walk around freely in the classroom during lectures and classroom assignments, teachers who befriend their students on Facebook...I really could go on and on. Of course, during teacher observations by the administrators or by school board, which happens maybe 6 or 8 times per school year for new teachers and maybe once or twice per year for tenured teachers, the teachers run a tight ship and have well-behaved students, which is easy to do when a stranger from the school board is in the classroom. These things are the way I have seen them.

 

[intertidal]

http://www.thebaynet.com/News/index...nt_categoryID/39095-News/comment/Y#subcomment hmm...the average teacher salary in Calvert is some $74,000. Thus, I would assume that teachers at the top of the scale make more than that. So, if the teachers at the top of the scale did take a 1% pay cut, this is what...less than a $740 per year pay cut? I know people in the private sector who have been laid off altogether. I know people in the private and public sectors who have taken much more than a 1% pay cut. Teachers really need to find another line of work or quit whining. They say they teach because they "love it." Well, if that is the case they should be okay with the money.

It would be interesting to see independent confirmation of what Karol claims for the mean salary - especially since some of his claims are not true. We know that Calvert salaries are far higher than those in St. Mary's, but 74K doesn't seem quite right unless it includes some fudge factor for benefits. Karol claims, falsely, if it was reported accurately, that teachers get a pension benefit. It has not been a benefit for years. They do receive a small pension if they maneuver the long list of qualifying actions - but they pay for it and they pay more than it is worth. The pension ceased to be a benefit when the forced cost to teachers exceeded its value as an annuity. You or I can buy a fixed permanent annuity paying the same and for less money than a teacher pays. It is accurate today to say the pension is a condition of employment. It is mostly a tax and Karol either knows this or should know it. It is troubling that a BOE member running for re-election would stoop to the level of the anti-teacher crowd to repeat this myth of teachers getting something and suggesting it is free. His comments are also curious from the perspective of throwing stones in a glass house. Perhaps he counts on short memories or new, uninformed voters, but I well remember the scandal exposed in the early 1990's with Mr. Karol sticking the taxpayers with the cost of phony mail order "education doctorate" degrees in a scheme to justify the jobs and very high pay of his friends in the education administration. He was forced out as superintendent at the time but the consequences of his actions remain today with anomalous high administrative costs locally relative to national averages. And he continues to provide for his administrative friends, as evidenced by another superintendent who left suddenly when his final year's compensation of about $0.5 million and golden parachute began to leak out.

I'm not saying the 74K is wrong out-of-hand- I'm saying that it would be better to cite some independent source and not someone with zero credibility who has always fought to cut the pie, sometimes in highly questionable ways, in favor of his friends.