yakky doodle
New Member
Jesus, Mary and Joseph already ... I picked the "good way to live your life" option.
Anyone care to know why?
Anyone care to know why?
The Bible
- Thread starter MDindef
- Start date
J
justhangn
Guest
Originally posted by yakky doodle
Jesus, Mary and Joseph already ... I picked the "good way to live your life" option.
Anyone care to know why?
Only if you swear we're all out to get you!
yakky doodle
New Member
nah Christy...just a pun 
Penn
Dancing Up A Storm
A Can of Worms, eh?
On your first line: I don't guess there were that many people in the whole world who were astrologers or even scientists who could have amassed enough knowledge to form a consensus. Sure they used the stars for guidance and navigation, but it wasn't for another 1,000 years or so before they found out the old globe was round. We are talking about the cradle of civilization, the begining of it all, right?
Secondly,The Church is there to help you interpret the Bible, and they'll even preach to you every Sunday, if you go. But You still have to form your own opinion of how it all fits together. The church can't or shouldn't demand that you accept the Bible, only explain what other scholars and Theologians have found. Whether you accept the Bible is your choice. After taking a 34 week course and studying the Bible, talking to my fellow classmates, I've accepted it.
I've said it before on here, there are way too many coincidences where prophesy comes true in the Bible for me to think it's fiction.
But look at the Dead Sea Scrolls: they were found in 1946. Among the finds was the the entire Book of Isaiah, written way before Christ, and translated again from Aramaic, I believe, by Theologians, and guess what? It translates practically word for word with todays' Bibles. So what does that mean?
penn
On your first line: I don't guess there were that many people in the whole world who were astrologers or even scientists who could have amassed enough knowledge to form a consensus. Sure they used the stars for guidance and navigation, but it wasn't for another 1,000 years or so before they found out the old globe was round. We are talking about the cradle of civilization, the begining of it all, right?Secondly,The Church is there to help you interpret the Bible, and they'll even preach to you every Sunday, if you go. But You still have to form your own opinion of how it all fits together. The church can't or shouldn't demand that you accept the Bible, only explain what other scholars and Theologians have found. Whether you accept the Bible is your choice. After taking a 34 week course and studying the Bible, talking to my fellow classmates, I've accepted it.
I've said it before on here, there are way too many coincidences where prophesy comes true in the Bible for me to think it's fiction.
But look at the Dead Sea Scrolls: they were found in 1946. Among the finds was the the entire Book of Isaiah, written way before Christ, and translated again from Aramaic, I believe, by Theologians, and guess what? It translates practically word for word with todays' Bibles. So what does that mean?
penn
J
justhangn
Guest
Re: A Can of Worms, eh?
VERY good question!!!!
Originally posted by penncam
But look at the Dead Sea Scrolls: they were found in 1946. Among the finds was the the entire Book of Isaiah, written way before Christ, and translated again from Aramaic, I believe, by Theologians, and guess what? It translates practically word for word with todays' Bibles. So what does that mean?
VERY good question!!!!
yakky doodle
New Member
first off -- don't flame me because I'm not someone who is a religious professor. these are just my personal feelings on religion in general.
because, IMHO, all religions are hypocritical. they all basically appear to strive toward the same end result -- live your life in a way that would please God. most of the religions that i've been exposed to tell you to love your brothers and sisters, treat people equally, etc. However, if you leave (say) church A for church b, those from Church A tend to shun you for 'crossing over' to another church or religious following. This also happened in my family.
a specific bite in my arse is the catholic church. does it not teach forgiveness through the confessions of your 'sins' and acceptance of J.C. as your saviour? why then do they turn away divorced members? i also have a beef with this following b/c the catholic church my grandparents went to for 10 years after moving to Delaware abandoned my grandfather when he needed his church most -- right after my grandmother's death. And, when he called the priest to perform last rites for my grandmother who was within an hour of passing, his response to my gramps was, "well, can I come over tomorrow; now's not a good time."
I think that's only the second time I ever heard gramps drop the "F" bomb. 
so I have a hard time buying the legitimacy of a lot of the preachings of religion which vary from following to following; however, I do think that they are valid life lessons/strategies that make us better people. I just don't believe you have to go to a church and help buy those pretty gold chalices and silk robes to be a good person.
about the only church (religion) i've ever felt comfortable was a lutheran church in Tucson. I cannot recall what specific following it was, but it was nice, not-preachy and accepting of anyone and everyone. I haven't been to another church since except to bury my two grandmothers in the last two years.
because, IMHO, all religions are hypocritical. they all basically appear to strive toward the same end result -- live your life in a way that would please God. most of the religions that i've been exposed to tell you to love your brothers and sisters, treat people equally, etc. However, if you leave (say) church A for church b, those from Church A tend to shun you for 'crossing over' to another church or religious following. This also happened in my family.
a specific bite in my arse is the catholic church. does it not teach forgiveness through the confessions of your 'sins' and acceptance of J.C. as your saviour? why then do they turn away divorced members? i also have a beef with this following b/c the catholic church my grandparents went to for 10 years after moving to Delaware abandoned my grandfather when he needed his church most -- right after my grandmother's death. And, when he called the priest to perform last rites for my grandmother who was within an hour of passing, his response to my gramps was, "well, can I come over tomorrow; now's not a good time."
I think that's only the second time I ever heard gramps drop the "F" bomb. so I have a hard time buying the legitimacy of a lot of the preachings of religion which vary from following to following; however, I do think that they are valid life lessons/strategies that make us better people. I just don't believe you have to go to a church and help buy those pretty gold chalices and silk robes to be a good person.
about the only church (religion) i've ever felt comfortable was a lutheran church in Tucson. I cannot recall what specific following it was, but it was nice, not-preachy and accepting of anyone and everyone. I haven't been to another church since except to bury my two grandmothers in the last two years.
Penn
Dancing Up A Storm
Re: Re: A Can of Worms, eh?
It's just another statement of factuality. If something as old as this document translates directly, almost exactly to the most accurate versions we have to day, then I'd say it's realistic to believe the Bible, as it's come through centuries hasn't been altered or subject to human interpretation, ie., made to say what we want it to say. Can you agree to that?
penn
It's just another statement of factuality. If something as old as this document translates directly, almost exactly to the most accurate versions we have to day, then I'd say it's realistic to believe the Bible, as it's come through centuries hasn't been altered or subject to human interpretation, ie., made to say what we want it to say. Can you agree to that? penn
J
justhangn
Guest
Re: Re: Re: A Can of Worms, eh?
Welllllll........I have to say that with the uncertainty of the ancient language translation, how can we say 100% that the translation is correct?
Originally posted by penncam
Welllllll........I have to say that with the uncertainty of the ancient language translation, how can we say 100% that the translation is correct?
migtig
aka Mrs. Giant
But..... if we are referring to the Dead Sea scrolls and using them as a proof accuracy check for the bible, not all of the scrolls have been completely translated. Also many "chapters" of the scrolls were left out of the bible. Some of which relates to the life and times of Mary, some relates to Jesus as a child. So, why were these left out of the Bible? And actually one man over saw the creation and compiling of the chapters of the New Testament. What on earth gave him such authority? The Church did and that was an earthly decision, not a heavenly one. How can anyone out there make a decision that something, anything is 100% accurate without all the info? Do we not question, think and reason? Wasn't the bible - new and old testament written by man? Haven't there been tons of examples how man is not perfect? Then again draw some more parellels, a lot of the tales of the heros of the bible is on line with Greek and Roman myths. The description of "Hell" is Norweigan - right down to the word "HEL" which is the goddess of this depressing place. And BTW, these myths existed long before the bible. Does this mean that we can use these myths and fables of long ago civilizations as a form of verifying the bible's accuracy?
Penn
Dancing Up A Storm
Being shunned should not be an option....
I don't know Yakky about all the churches in the area, but if they conform to Gods' Covenants, there is something very wrong in their attitude.
People shift from church to church seeking diferent messages, or they're not comfortable with what they're hearing. Maybe it does not suit their needs.
I've been to only two churches here in So Md, (I'm a Methodist), and settled on St Pauls' in Lusby. I'm comfortable in that old 132 year old church, and I like the clergy there. It reminds me of the church I went to when I was a kid.
I sing in the choir, am a member of the Board of Trustees, and also do Layreading. I act as Usher when they need me, and even assisted my Pastor in serving Communion. So what am I saying?
I am involved with my church; it doesn't make me better than anyone else, but I'm happy there.
The Catholic Church, of which I am NOT an expert on, does have some strange laws about marriage. At least what I've been told. If you get legally divorced, the church doesn't necessarily recognize that.
To them, you get married in a Catholic church, you're supposed to stay married.
As I understand it, you have to petition the church to have the marriage annulled in the church's eyes.
It's a fairly long drawn out process, and a lot of divorced Catholics don't want to go through the procedure, it's embarassing, and very emotional. Again this is what I've been told. (I could be wrong)
It may be a reason that a lot of folks seek out either Lutheran or Episcopalian religions, because they are "close" to being the Catholic church, but not quite.
Anybody else hear something different?
penn
I don't know Yakky about all the churches in the area, but if they conform to Gods' Covenants, there is something very wrong in their attitude. People shift from church to church seeking diferent messages, or they're not comfortable with what they're hearing. Maybe it does not suit their needs.
I've been to only two churches here in So Md, (I'm a Methodist), and settled on St Pauls' in Lusby. I'm comfortable in that old 132 year old church, and I like the clergy there. It reminds me of the church I went to when I was a kid.
I sing in the choir, am a member of the Board of Trustees, and also do Layreading. I act as Usher when they need me, and even assisted my Pastor in serving Communion. So what am I saying?
I am involved with my church; it doesn't make me better than anyone else, but I'm happy there.
The Catholic Church, of which I am NOT an expert on, does have some strange laws about marriage. At least what I've been told. If you get legally divorced, the church doesn't necessarily recognize that.
To them, you get married in a Catholic church, you're supposed to stay married.
As I understand it, you have to petition the church to have the marriage annulled in the church's eyes.
It's a fairly long drawn out process, and a lot of divorced Catholics don't want to go through the procedure, it's embarassing, and very emotional. Again this is what I've been told. (I could be wrong)
It may be a reason that a lot of folks seek out either Lutheran or Episcopalian religions, because they are "close" to being the Catholic church, but not quite.
Anybody else hear something different?
penn
Penn
Dancing Up A Storm
Mig, I'm not certain if the chapters you refer to were "left out", or simply not there with the rest of the discoveries. Ithink that was what I remember reading/hearing. I do know it was an incomplete find. And, you're right: not all the scrolls have been translated, and I have no answer for that. What I was trying to point out was that I believe that if a document that goes back before the time of Christ, translates nearly, not exactly to what we know of today, that means it hasn't been altered.
As far as knowledge of ancient languages, the class called "Disciple" I took at my church touched on this, plus, I've watched several documentaries, done some reading, and there are Theologic scholars in the Middle East, Rome(all over Italy), and Greece who get together when translating documents like these and compare meanings, ideas and what possible ethnic cultural attitudes could shed light on them. I've no reason to believe they'd try to contrive something out of what is there or isn't there. JHMO
penn
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SmallTown
Football season!
Re: A Can of Worms, eh?
If we're talking about the word of god, why wouldn't he whisper into someone's ear "Hey, i'll let you in on how I created everything...But I won't mention the world is round because I know the future and I love the looks on your faces when you find out the truth"
People always look to things for "security". Seems many people today are not affiliated with a certain religion because of the teachings of which ever holy book they follow. Rather, they go with one that makes them feel secure with their well being now, and what may happen after death. Quite often this means going along with whatever religion their parents are a part of. I just don't feel that just because by some freak chance I was born into a family whose religous background makes me one of the "chosen ones" is a realistic way to look at religion.
I personally do not feel that the god I believe in is an egotistical entity that wants his people to worship him in a certain building 3 or 4 nights a week ( or to play Bingo or go to war in his name )
There was a time as a kid that I tried to dismiss religion, and rely soley on science. As I gew older, I realized the constant "battles" between science and religion are a waste of time. My view on this is that god's world is well beyond our understanding. Yet, god offers us certain rules which we proclaim as science as a way to try and understand his creations, not his reasons.
But now that I have gotten completey off topic, I have forgotten the choices in the poll. I'll get back to ya on that one.
Originally posted by penncam
If we're talking about the word of god, why wouldn't he whisper into someone's ear "Hey, i'll let you in on how I created everything...But I won't mention the world is round because I know the future and I love the looks on your faces when you find out the truth"
People always look to things for "security". Seems many people today are not affiliated with a certain religion because of the teachings of which ever holy book they follow. Rather, they go with one that makes them feel secure with their well being now, and what may happen after death. Quite often this means going along with whatever religion their parents are a part of. I just don't feel that just because by some freak chance I was born into a family whose religous background makes me one of the "chosen ones" is a realistic way to look at religion.
I personally do not feel that the god I believe in is an egotistical entity that wants his people to worship him in a certain building 3 or 4 nights a week ( or to play Bingo or go to war in his name )
There was a time as a kid that I tried to dismiss religion, and rely soley on science. As I gew older, I realized the constant "battles" between science and religion are a waste of time. My view on this is that god's world is well beyond our understanding. Yet, god offers us certain rules which we proclaim as science as a way to try and understand his creations, not his reasons.
But now that I have gotten completey off topic, I have forgotten the choices in the poll. I'll get back to ya on that one.
SmallTown
Football season!
Ok, i say a combination of #2 and #3.
I try to stay away from the religion forms because it seems that when it comes to this topic, many people wear their butt-cheeks for earmuffs. Nice to see this thread hasn't disproved my theory. Started off with someone trying to question someone's intentions, and just went down hill after that. I wonder if God ever asks himself if it was a mistake to give people the ability to reason and the notion of free will, because so few ever use it.
I try to stay away from the religion forms because it seems that when it comes to this topic, many people wear their butt-cheeks for earmuffs. Nice to see this thread hasn't disproved my theory. Started off with someone trying to question someone's intentions, and just went down hill after that. I wonder if God ever asks himself if it was a mistake to give people the ability to reason and the notion of free will, because so few ever use it.
Frank
Chairman of the Board
I don't know that I can fully say - "the inspired word of God", because there are a few inconsistencies and peculiarities in the Bible to convince me - it's definitely not to be taken literally, anymore than my own daily words should be taken literally. My concerns don't have anything to do with mistranslation or errors in recopying - because there's extensive proof that what was written in the Bible originally IS what was intended to BE there. We have original documents, in the original languages, spanning many centuries. We have large quotes contained in *other* documents, also spanning centuries, and dating back to and preceding the time of Christ - AND we have the Dead Sea scrolls. We have the Greek Septuagint, which Jesus quoted from, in the Greek. So we KNOW what it said - the question really isn't, has it been corrupted - the question lies more in, is it really what *God* wants? Did any of the 'corruption' occur at the level of being written by *men*?
So - with its flaws - I can't take everything in it at face value. BUT - I do see it as superior to almost every other religious book ever written. I've read the Koran - while beautiful in some parts - completely primitive and wretched in others. I've read the Book of Mormon - and some of it is ridiculous, other parts of it plagiarized straight out of the King James Old Testament, INCLUDING verse numbers (which didnt exist in the original Hebrew OR Greek). I've read the Bhagavad-Gita, and many other religious books. None of them contain the clarity and beauty of the Psalms, of the books of the Prophets, of the teachings of Jesus in the New Testament. I think something as simple as the Sermon on the Mount to be one of the best set of teaching ever seen, in any book, anywhere. Some of Paul's letters are so brilliant, they rival the poetry and wisdom of anything written. I *can't* put the Bible on the level with other religious literature - it's like putting Shakespeare next to a comic book. It's putting "The Godfather" next to "Showgirls". To even suggest it is laughable.
It's also not just full of fable and myth - if anything, we keep finding historical evidence of Biblical events. We now know that the Hittites actually *existed*, due to archaeology, but until recently, they were only known to be in the Bible. We now know that a great flood DID once take place prior to written history, when the Mediterranean spilled into the Black Sea, and expanded its shores and destroyed and buried the coastal towns. So we're learning that more and more of it is actually *true*, of sorts.
Most of the concerns addressed here, by different individuals has been about the actions of *people* - this religious group, or that priest, or this religious teaching, and so on. And you will find that anywhere. I can't berate the Bible, because so-called believers won't practice what it says, just as I won't berate the concepts of love, marriage and friendship because a lover is unfaithful or a friend betrays me. People will let me down, but the idea remains pure and good, and I believe in it.
Anyway - it's noon, and I got stuff to do ----
So - with its flaws - I can't take everything in it at face value. BUT - I do see it as superior to almost every other religious book ever written. I've read the Koran - while beautiful in some parts - completely primitive and wretched in others. I've read the Book of Mormon - and some of it is ridiculous, other parts of it plagiarized straight out of the King James Old Testament, INCLUDING verse numbers (which didnt exist in the original Hebrew OR Greek). I've read the Bhagavad-Gita, and many other religious books. None of them contain the clarity and beauty of the Psalms, of the books of the Prophets, of the teachings of Jesus in the New Testament. I think something as simple as the Sermon on the Mount to be one of the best set of teaching ever seen, in any book, anywhere. Some of Paul's letters are so brilliant, they rival the poetry and wisdom of anything written. I *can't* put the Bible on the level with other religious literature - it's like putting Shakespeare next to a comic book. It's putting "The Godfather" next to "Showgirls". To even suggest it is laughable.
It's also not just full of fable and myth - if anything, we keep finding historical evidence of Biblical events. We now know that the Hittites actually *existed*, due to archaeology, but until recently, they were only known to be in the Bible. We now know that a great flood DID once take place prior to written history, when the Mediterranean spilled into the Black Sea, and expanded its shores and destroyed and buried the coastal towns. So we're learning that more and more of it is actually *true*, of sorts.
Most of the concerns addressed here, by different individuals has been about the actions of *people* - this religious group, or that priest, or this religious teaching, and so on. And you will find that anywhere. I can't berate the Bible, because so-called believers won't practice what it says, just as I won't berate the concepts of love, marriage and friendship because a lover is unfaithful or a friend betrays me. People will let me down, but the idea remains pure and good, and I believe in it.
Anyway - it's noon, and I got stuff to do ----
Penn
Dancing Up A Storm
Think about it for a minute...
ST, I am replying to your thoughts here without any smart-alecky intentions, so having said that; Do you really think man back then, or even today, as far as we've progressed, could ever begin to understand if God were to try to explain how he created
the universe, the Heavens and the Earth, etc. ?
There are some things we'll probably never understand. We theorize until we're blue in the face, but trying to get a handle on Creation is still most likely beyond us.
Jesus taught and preached to the masses in Parables, because it was the one sure method of passing along knowledge. The masses could relate, because each lesson had something to do with their everyday life experiences; He knew that, and there's a passage in the Gospel of John where he explains that to his Disciples.
penn
ST, I am replying to your thoughts here without any smart-alecky intentions, so having said that; Do you really think man back then, or even today, as far as we've progressed, could ever begin to understand if God were to try to explain how he createdthe universe, the Heavens and the Earth, etc. ?
There are some things we'll probably never understand. We theorize until we're blue in the face, but trying to get a handle on Creation is still most likely beyond us.
Jesus taught and preached to the masses in Parables, because it was the one sure method of passing along knowledge. The masses could relate, because each lesson had something to do with their everyday life experiences; He knew that, and there's a passage in the Gospel of John where he explains that to his Disciples.
penn