The Biography of a Bad Statistic

[vraiblonde]

From FactCheck.org:

Abortions rising under Bush? Not true. How that false claim came to be -and lives on.

Summary

Politicians from Hillary Clinton and John Kerry to Howard Dean have recently contended that abortions have increased since George W. Bush took office in 2001.

This claim is false. It's based on an an opinion piece that used data from only 16 states. A study by the Alan Guttmacher Institute of 43 states found that abortions have actually decreased.

Click the link below for the entire article:

http://www.factcheck.org/article330m.html

If the link does not work, copy and paste this link into your browser and hit "ENTER":

http://www.factcheck.org/article330m.html

 

[Railroad]

Another example of the disinformation and distortion campaign. As far as the issue itself is concerned, saying they've gone up or gone down under President Bush is a little like saying the weather has gotten worse (or better) since a new meteorologist came to a local TV station.

 

[Larry Gude]

It is a good thing to have the actual facts...

...to debunk 'myth' speeches but here's what I find interesting:

Say we take it as face value, that abortions are up 'under' Bush. Why?
What does it mean?

They say:

The claim is repeated by supporters of abortion rights as evidence that Bush's anti-abortion policies have backfired, or at least been ineffective.

Backfired?

Bush: "Don't have an abortion"
Preagnant woman: "Ha! Now I shall!"

Kerry said:

And do you know that in fact abortion has gone up in these last few years with the draconian policies that Republicans have….

Draconian policies? What, exactly, is more draconian than abortion?

Dean:

You know that abortions have gone up 25 percent since George Bush was President ?

Up 25% and no one questions it? Challenges it? Fact checks it?

Bias has many forms, from how you write headlines to the stories you run then obviously how you present the stories and, perhaps worse of all, allowing what can only be called 'your side' to say whatever they wish, completely lacking in the first step of objectivity; 'Why?'

 

[vraiblonde]

'Why?'

Because of Bush's draconian policies, of course. Didn't you read the quote?

I love FactCheck- they are the only completely unbiased source I've ever come across.

 

[Larry Gude]

What I am suggesting is...

Because of Bush's draconian policies, of course. Didn't you read the quote?

I love FactCheck- they are the only completely unbiased source I've ever come across.

...this:

Kerry: "As you KNOW, Tim, abortions are WAY up under this administration BECAUSE of their DRACONIAN policies..."

Tim: "That's interesting Senator, where does the data showing this rise come from and which policies are draconian?"


Kerry: "Well, Tim, shut the #### up and don't ever question me again or my band of brothers will swift boat their foot up yer ass. Everyone KNOWS abortions are up and I think we ALL KNOW why..."

 

[vraiblonde]

Kerry: "As you KNOW, Tim, abortions are WAY up under this administration BECAUSE of their DRACONIAN policies..."

Tim: "That's interesting Senator, where does the data showing this rise come from and which policies are draconian?"

Kerry: "You know Tim, when I was a young Asst. District Attorney, I successfully prosecuted numerous rape cases. Would you tell a young rape victim that she must bear her attacker's child? Would you tell a 12 year old girl that she must give birth to a child conceived of an incestuous relationship? This is what Mr. Bush is doing - forcing rape victims to pay for the crimes of their attacker."

C'mon, Larry - you know how this works.

 

[Larry Gude]

Yes...

Kerry: "You know Tim, when I was a young Asst. District Attorney, I successfully prosecuted numerous rape cases. Would you tell a young rape victim that she must bear her attacker's child? Would you tell a 12 year old girl that she must give birth to a child conceived of an incestuous relationship? This is what Mr. Bush is doing - forcing rape victims to pay for the crimes of their attacker."

C'mon, Larry - you know how this works.

...and then a 'reporter' who is suppossed to be interviewing their subject follows up and asks:

"Isn't the un- born child still innocent as the other side contends?"

"Tim" or whomever does not need to nor should become an advocate, but they should be able to have a conversation and simply say 'this is the other sides response' what do you say to that?"

Damn sure Tim and Co follow up on people they really want to challenge.

 

[Bruzilla]

Kerry: "You know Tim, when I was a young Asst. District Attorney, I successfully prosecuted numerous rape cases. Would you tell a young rape victim that she must bear her attacker's child? Would you tell a 12 year old girl that she must give birth to a child conceived of an incestuous relationship? This is what Mr. Bush is doing - forcing rape victims to pay for the crimes of their attacker."

C'mon, Larry - you know how this works.

I guess that statement can also lead to Kerry saying that since the number of abortions is up, the number of cases of rape and incest must be up too under Bush.

 

[Larry Gude]

You're good!

I guess that statement can also lead to Kerry saying that since the number of abortions is up, the number of cases of rape and incest must be up too under Bush.

Kerry gonna make you part of his band!

 

[vraiblonde]

I guess that statement can also lead to Kerry saying that since the number of abortions is up, the number of cases of rape and incest must be up too under Bush.

A two-fer worthy of Dan Rather!

And if they can't come up with a good answer, they'll just start talking about something else. Really, interviewers only have a set amount of time and the interviewee knows this. So if there's a question they can't or don't want to answer, they just bloviate or change the subject. No interviewer is going to waste their airtime harping on a single point, so they let the guest get away with evasive answers so they can move on.

The only one that will literally spend the entire interview badgering his guest is O'Reilly.

 

[Larry Gude]

...ifthey can't come up with a good answer, they'll just start talking about something else. Really, interviewers only have a set amount of time and the interviewee knows this. So if there's a question they can't or don't want to answer, they just bloviate or change the subject. /QUOTE]

Yes, that's what happens but to me this just goes in that evidence category of left leaning bias. There just doesn't seem to be as many instances where Ann Coulter, for example, says "Bill Clinton caused 9/11" and then they go to commercial and let it go when they come back.

You know how the Swift guys got ripped to sheds and not even for what they said, just their motives and not once, NOT once did anyone ask Kerry if the substance of what they accussed him of was in any way accurate.

"Sen.Kerry, why did you change your comodation information on your web site?"

Simple journalism.

All we got was "How about that GW Bush attack machine Senator?"

 

[rraley]

Abortion and abortion rights are such tricky, tricky issues...it's hard to come down hard on either side; there's alotta gray in there.

As for Tim Russert...I like him, he's tough as nails on everybody.

 

[Bruzilla]

Abortion and abortion rights are such tricky, tricky issues...it's hard to come down hard on either side; there's alotta gray in there.

I have to disagree with you there. Go out and poll 100 Americans as to if women should be told by the federal government what they can do with their bodies/what health decisions they can make, and a vast majority will say NO.

Then go out and poll another group of 100 and ask "Should women be allowed to have an abortion for any reason they want, including their own personel convenience?", and the majority will answer NO. Change the word "women" to "young women" or "young girls" and even more will say NO.

Speaking as a very pro-abortion Republican, I think that a majority of Americans are for abortion, but only under, dare I say it... extroardinary circumstances, i.e., genuine health issues, rape, and incest. I don't think that they support abortion-on-demand, but you can't verify that because everytime there's a restriction on abortion proposed, the pro-choice lobby clouds the argument with the "government telling a woman..." debate.

Personally, my only issues with abortion are banning late-term abortions and I think that a father's consent should be required before a woman can get an abortion. That child is just as much his as hers.

 

[rraley]

You see, Bru, you kinda make my point.

On one hand, many people in America are deeply religious (like me) and see abortion as a terrible sin against humanity.

On the other, many people in America want the government as removed from their life as possible, meaning that they wouldn't want Congress to decide whether they have abortions or not.

Furthermore, some of these abortion restrictions make complete sense, but there is the slippery slope argument, which makes sense (like the assault rifle ban for gun control).

Etc. etc...it's all hard to balance and it includes so many different, conflicting emotions, viewpoints, etc.

 

[Larry Gude]

Crap, crap, crap...

I have to disagree with you there. Go out and poll 100 Americans as to if women should be told by the federal government what they can do with their bodies/what health decisions they can make, and a vast majority will say NO.

It's all in how you ask the question, fitting for this thread.

More crap:

Abortion and abortion rights are such tricky, tricky issues...it's hard to come down hard on either side; there's alotta gray in

Q: As far as abortion is concerned do you believe the government should be telling a woman what to do with her body?

A: (crowd No! Hell no!

Q: OK, do you think prositution and hard drug use are OK?

A: (crowd, thinning) Uh, well, ummm...uh...

Q: Is there a human death involved in abortion?

A: (what's left of the crowd) Yeah but, I mean, it's just a bunch of cells and blob and stuff...


Abortion would be a slam dunk no problem family medical decisions except for the way the left has gone about trying to secure it as some sort of privacy issue and womans right and the rediculous judicial farce that R v Wade is.

The left says the father has NO say and, BTW, leave your check book.

The left says it's a right to privacy (as would be prostitution, drug abuse and selling one of your kidneys)

The left runs around speaking for trees, snail darters, gray squirrels, rats, bats and cats, defending with passion and heartfelt emotion that which cannot speak for itself. But they don't stand for the most precious, innocent and helpless thing in the world.

And the left stands against capital punishment for the guilty as sin.

 

[vraiblonde]

On one hand, many people in America are deeply religious (like me) and see abortion as a terrible sin against humanity.

On the other, many people in America want the government as removed from their life as possible, meaning that they wouldn't want Congress to decide whether they have abortions or not.

And then there are those like me who realize that conservative women don't have abortions - it stands to reason that the vast majority would be liberal-leaning women. Therefore I am tickled pink that they exterminate thier spawn and they agree with me that they shouldn't breed.

 

[rraley]

And then there are those like me who realize that conservative women don't have abortions - it stands to reason that the vast majority would be liberal-leaning women. Therefore I am tickled pink that they exterminate thier spawn and they agree with me that they shouldn't breed.

I'd say that abortion hits people across the political spectrum...take a look at a Planned Parenthood and you will no doubt see the preacher's daughter walk in their every once in awhile.

 

[vraiblonde]

I'd say that abortion hits people across the political spectrum...

Why would you say that when liberals are typically for it and conservatives are typically against it? How does that reason out to be a cross-political problem?

And preacher's daughters aren't always conservative. Take a look at all those Baptists ministers in urban areas who support Democrats.

 

[dems4me]

vast majority would be liberal-leaning women. Therefore I am tickled pink that they exterminate thier spawn and they agree with me that they shouldn't breed.

 

[Nickel]

And preacher's daughters aren't always conservative.

Sons, too. My baby-daddy (and I use that term to connote his ghetto-ness, not mine ) is the son of a preacher man, and is akin to the scum of the earth. His older brother, while being a great guy on the outside, died of a drug overdose last Christmas. His little sister just got married last weekend, three months pregnant. The only normal one is the older sister, a friend of mine, and she's still not "conservative". Shoot, preacher's kids are the worst kids of all.