The Corps' quest for the best rifle for infantrymen

[nhboy]

" The commandant of the Marine Corps wants to vastly expand the fielding of infantry automatic rifles by putting them in the hands of nearly every “0311” rifleman.

The Corps’ IAR — currently the M27 made by Heckler & Koch — could replace the standard-issue M4 carbine for thousands of Marines.

“Most Marines like it, and so do I,” Marine Corps Commandant Gen. Robert Neller told Marine Corps Times. Neller has not made a decision as to whether he will put any additional IARs in infantry squads.

“Everything I have seen suggests that the M27s we have been using for some time have been the most reliable, durable, and accurate weapons in our rifle squads,” Neller said in a statement.

The Marine Corps started fielding more than 4,000 M27 IARs back in 2010, initially thinking they would replace the M249 squad automatic weapons. But ultimately the Corps decided it needed both weapons, and the IARs use among grunts has been limited.

Now Neller is looking at the IAR as a high-performance service weapon for all riflemen in the infantry.

Most weapons experts agree the M27 is far superior to the M4. But at up to $3,000 apiece, it costs a lot more compared to the M4, typically less than $1,000. "

Continue reading here: https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/articles/marines-may-buy-more-automatic-rifles-for-infantry-squads

 

[GURPS]

What is old is new again

 

[itsbob]

" The commandant of the Marine Corps wants to vastly expand the fielding of infantry automatic rifles by putting them in the hands of nearly every “0311” rifleman.

The Corps’ IAR — currently the M27 made by Heckler & Koch — could replace the standard-issue M4 carbine for thousands of Marines.

“Most Marines like it, and so do I,” Marine Corps Commandant Gen. Robert Neller told Marine Corps Times. Neller has not made a decision as to whether he will put any additional IARs in infantry squads.

“Everything I have seen suggests that the M27s we have been using for some time have been the most reliable, durable, and accurate weapons in our rifle squads,” Neller said in a statement.

The Marine Corps started fielding more than 4,000 M27 IARs back in 2010, initially thinking they would replace the M249 squad automatic weapons. But ultimately the Corps decided it needed both weapons, and the IARs use among grunts has been limited.

Now Neller is looking at the IAR as a high-performance service weapon for all riflemen in the infantry.

Most weapons experts agree the M27 is far superior to the M4. But at up to $3,000 apiece, it costs a lot more compared to the M4, typically less than $1,000. "

Continue reading here: https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/articles/marines-may-buy-more-automatic-rifles-for-infantry-squads

Why don't they just modify the M4 and M16 back to a full auto??

 

[black dog]

What is old is new again

It's because a girl can't carry a 240 or 249.

 

[GURPS]

Why don't they just modify the M4 and M16 back to a full auto??

I do like that the weapon is based on the HK416

[Queue Internet Argument about Direct Impingement / Gas Piston Uppers]

It's because a girl can't carry a 240 or 249.

Army had Automatic Riflemen in the 80's when I was in .... one solider in each Squad was designated AR

 

[Larry Gude]

Why don't they just modify the M4 and M16 back to a full auto??

Because the HnK is a significantly better rifle.

 

[itsbob]

Because the HnK is a significantly better rifle.

I would go with that IF it was 7.62.. that's what the infantry really needs, and update BAR..

I had NO complaints about the M16A2, except for the lack of full auto..

 

[Larry Gude]

I would go with that IF it was 7.62.. that's what the infantry really needs, and update BAR..

I had NO complaints about the M16A2, except for the lack of full auto..

You'll get NO argument from me on caliber. I think the 5.56 has a role, especially in street fighting, door to door stuff. But, yeah, if it's me, I'll have an M-14, please.

 

[GURPS]

But, yeah, if it's me, I'll have an M-14, please.

and carry an MP5 for CQB

 

[Larry Gude]

and carry an MP5 for CQB

I'd still prefer 5.56 to 9mm in an urban setting. Lotta walls to shoot through sometimes and not because 5.56 is ideal for that but it is better than 9mm. yeah or nay?

 

[black dog]

You'll get NO argument from me on caliber. I think the 5.56 has a role, especially in street fighting, door to door stuff. But, yeah, if it's me, I'll have an M-14, please.

The M14 is a great rifle for sure, I still shot across the course with one a few times a year.
Why would you pick one to carry in combat over a M16 / M4 rifle?

 

[Wishbone]

Split the difference and pick an AR10 type.

 

[Larry Gude]

The M14 is a great rifle for sure, I still shot across the course with one a few times a year.
Why would you pick one to carry in combat over a M16 / M4 rifle?

Because I've never had to.

In today's battlefield, pretty much all urban, it seems there is no real need for the average infantryman to carry the extra weight other than punching holes in some walls a 5.56 might not be so good at. He's not shooting at anyone 5-600 yards away anymore.

 

[GURPS]

Why would you pick one to carry in combat over a M16 / M4 rifle?

7.62 will penetrate more things

 

[Wishbone]

7.62 will penetrate more things

As does .338

 

[GURPS]

He's not shooting at anyone 5-600 yards away anymore.

Shorter Barreled M-14 .... 18 inch instead of 22 or 24

 

[black dog]

Because I've never had to.

In today's battlefield, pretty much all urban, it seems there is no real need for the average infantryman to carry the extra weight other than punching holes in some walls a 5.56 might not be so good at. He's not shooting at anyone 5-600 yards away anymore.

If you would have humped one it would be a love, hate relationship.
Urban? Lots of shooting at distance still going on in Iraq and Afghanistan.
5.56 certainly is quite lethal at 5 to 600 meters. After 700 meters a battle rifle the 30 caliber really shines.

 

[black dog]

Shorter Barreled M-14 .... 18 inch instead of 22 or 24

Whit the newer ammunition yes, shorter barrels are ok. But shooting SS109... 855 it has to have at least a 20" barrel to keep the bullet from losing yaw ( tumbling ) after 300 meters. Hence the reason for a improved 5.56 round.

 

[black dog]

7.62 will penetrate more things

So will a tank,
but who wants to hump the now rifles extra weight and that of 7.62 ammo is a 1 to almost 3 rounds different than 5.56
Would you rather carry 120 rounds or closer to 300 depending on what bandoliers are issued.

 

[itsbob]

So will a tank,
but who wants to hump the now rifles extra weight and that of 7.62 ammo is a 1 to almost 3 rounds different than 5.56
Would you rather carry 120 rounds or closer to 300 depending on what bandoliers are issued.

Well, as an M60 gunner I carried 500 rounds of 7.62 while my assistant gunner carried an additional 500 rounds (or more) plus the spare barrel.

Combat load for an infantryman is 180 rounds (6 30 round magazines), so 500 - 1000 rounds v 180...

Wouldn't be too much to ask (if you have a 7.62 Automatic Rifle) for others to share the load as well.. like they do with a Man Portable Mortar.. Everyone short of the RTO and Medic each carry 2 rounds or more.

AND like somebody mentioned above.. what's the weight difference between an AR-15 and an AR-10??