the Humanity of Jesus

[Xaquin44]

Follow that line out - if you weren't told about Him, would He exist?

Well, do you know what car I drive? Does it exist?


Seems a flaw in your theory there.

ummm a car is a lot easier to prove than god.

You could just drive it over ....

 

[Xaquin44]

Yes there would. If you destroyed every bible in existence and a thousand years went by where no one was allowed to preach God's word, God would still exist just the same. God was before we were created and God will always be. This holds true with arguments like if a tree fell in the forest and no one there to hear it, did it make a sound. Or if man wasn't even on this earth would earth really exist?

Tough concept for folks that can't get out of their paradigm of "God was created by man".

I was saying 'if it (the bible) had never been written'.

 

[This_person]

and its apparent that you can't get out of the paradigm of "the bible was written by god"

if you could, you would see that since man wrote the book, it is mans view or impression of what he thinks god is, there for the construct is man-made.


it doesn't mean that there isn't a god, or that god hasn't always existed, it just means that religion was contructed by people, and religion is not representative of god necessarily

The church is man made, based upon words given to us by God.

While it's not necessarily representative of God, it's also not necessarily NOT representative of God. If best faith efforts were put forth to get the words and concepts right, and those were guided by God, then the little details probably don't matter much, and we probably have it right.

 

[This_person]

ummm a car is a lot easier to prove than god.

You could just drive it over ....

Proof wasn't the point. Existing was. What you said was

actually, without scripture, there really wouldn't be a 'god' as you know it. I mean everything we 'know' about him or her is from that book, so if it didn't exist ....

Implying that there is no God, we just believe there is because it's written. My point was He exists whether we believe he does or we don't. Just like my car. You can believe it exists, or it doesn't, but it exists anyway. Just like God.

 

[Xaquin44]

Proof wasn't the point. Existing was. What you said was Implying that there is no God, we just believe there is because it's written. My point was He exists whether we believe he does or we don't. Just like my car. You can believe it exists, or it doesn't, but it exists anyway. Just like God.

the difference being in the proof

admittedly, things like oxygen always existed, but the proof was always there in that we breathe.

There is no proof for god and more importantly, nothing saying he has existed or does or will etc.

 

[PsyOps]

and its apparent that you can't get out of the paradigm of "the bible was written by god"

if you could, you would see that since man wrote the book, it is mans view or impression of what he thinks god is, there for the construct is man-made.

I've never maintained that the bible was written by God. It was inspired by God. Your belief that it's simply man's view or impression of God removes the spiritual aspect of it. When Jesus was on this earth He was consumed with the Holy Spirit and every word that came out of his mouth was that of God's. When Jesus' disciples were filled with the Holy Spirit at the Pentecost every word that came out of their mouths was the complete insired word of God. For a Christian you cannot separate the two.

it doesn't mean that there isn't a god, or that god hasn't always existed, it just means that religion was contructed by people, and religion is not representative of god necessarily

I must admit I am not talking about religion; I am talking about faith. Religion, in its practice, is man-made. Faith, in it's practice, is inspired by God. An important distinction.

 

[wxtornado]

I've never maintained that the bible was written by God. It was inspired by God. Your belief that it's simply man's view or impression of God removes the spiritual aspect of it. When Jesus was on this earth He was consumed with the Holy Spirit and every word that came out of his mouth was that of God's. When Jesus' disciples were filled with the Holy Spirit at the Pentecost every word that came out of their mouths was the complete insired word of God. For a Christian you cannot separate the two.

You'd think God -- as all powerful as he is -- would be able to think up some foolproof ways to get his message across, wouldn't you?

 

[TimAllen]

You'd think God -- as all powerful as he is -- would be able to think up some foolproof ways to get his message across, wouldn't you?

The fact that we are all here living and breathing should be proof enough.

 

[wxtornado]

The fact that we are all here living and breathing should be proof enough.

But it isn't. And I was actually talking about the bible.

 

[This_person]

You'd think God -- as all powerful as he is -- would be able to think up some foolproof ways to get his message across, wouldn't you?

To what end? Why would He need to?

 

[Marie]

You'd think God -- as all powerful as he is -- would be able to think up some foolproof ways to get his message across, wouldn't you?

He does, he tells Christians to go out teach and preach, spreading the Good news to all the world.

 

[PsyOps]

You'd think God -- as all powerful as he is -- would be able to think up some foolproof ways to get his message across, wouldn't you?

Seems pretty foolproof to me. Or perhaps you need to define foolproof in this context.

And just because God is all-powerful doesn't mean He has to exercise that power with everything He does. I have the power to make sure my kid brushes his teeth every night just the way I demand it but I don't. I showed him how and let him go from there.

 

[Xaquin44]

He does, he tells Christians to go out teach and preach, spreading the Good news to all the world.

the inquisition, what a show!

the inquisiiiii iii iiii tion here we go!

 

[wxtornado]

To what end? Why would He need to?

Why would he need to??

He could have revealed a trove of NT writings appear on a building that were clearly chiseled in during the period of time. You know, like the false god Amon-Ra did with the pyramids-- direct and uninterrupted pedigree from the author's hands to our eyes today.

But.... nah, God didn't do that. He kept it "oral" since, as we all know, the oral method is impossible to circumvent or corrupt.

He could have allowed to survive records from Rome. After all, he did apprently let less important documents from the time survive fine.

But nah... he didn't do that either. He left it open to disagreement because after all -- he merely wants people to believe so they don't wind up being damned forever.

Hey, he's God-- he could have the words enblazoned in the sky for all to see -- in every language -- simultaneously.

But then... nah.... he'd rather have a few thousand reinterpretations filtered through a few million people over time, and allow the bible to change time and time and time again.

He could "wipe out" all competitive "sacred texts" as they were being written -- you know, as "And they all bombed one another happily ever after" was written at the end of the Qu'ran, it could combust and disappear. Only the Bible could survive.

But nah-- he doesn't do that either.

And of course, he could have made it so it said things that made sense. Like it could have accurately described how creation occured and the story could adhere to the verifiable evidence.

But nah, he doesn't do that EITHER!

In the end, what God apparently does do is behave EXACTLY as if he didn't exist in the first place-- which of course is no surprise.

He leaves gaps, he allows translations, he doesn't cross reference with other works, and he lets it sit there about as useful as a doorstop.

Which is why not everyone buys it as a book about truth.

 

[Marie]

the inquisition, what a show!

the inquisiiiii iii iiii tion here we go!

Nice try. Anything with man involved has room for corruption. Men sin in all walks of life, in all proffessions, so there have been power crazy people doing things under the guise of religion, just like these prosberity preachers that prey on people financially, just like the Muslems kill in the name of god.

The common thread though is they arent serving Christ, they are serving self interest under the guise of religion. Christ isnt Lord in their life he's a means to personal gain.

So thats a red herring!

 

[This_person]

Why would he need to??

Right, why would He need to? You didn't address this question.

And of course, he could have made it so it said things that made sense. Like it could have accurately described how creation occured and the story could adhere to the verifiable evidence.

What has been shown to be inaccurate?

In the end, what God apparently does do is behave EXACTLY as if he didn't exist in the first place-- which of course is no surprise.

He leaves gaps, he allows translations, he doesn't cross reference with other works, and he lets it sit there about as useful as a doorstop.

Which is why not everyone buys it as a book about truth.

So, He leaves it such that faith will be required. Hmmmmmmm. And?