The Miami Shooting...

[Larry Gude]

...OK.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/08/AR2005120801867.html

Just read that real quick. 5 short paragraphs.

...


...


The Posts issue:

though they have also gone out of their way to prejudge the matter and declare that the officers in question acted reasonably. This is premature. Any time a government officer takes someone's life, judgment ought to wait until the facts become clear.

After reading this:

THERE IS, at this stage, no reason to doubt the official account of the slaying Wednesday of Rigoberto Alpizar by federal air marshals in Miami.

and this...

According to the government, Mr. Alpizar, a U.S. citizen on his way from Ecuador to Orlando, left his seat as boarding was ending in Miami and shouted that he had a bomb in his carry-on luggage. When two marshals on the flight ordered him to stop, he ran from the plane onto the jetway. The officers followed and, in the jetway, shot him when he allegedly reached into his bag and began moving back toward them.

and THIS:

Mr. Alpizar's wife tried to explain that he was mentally ill and had not taken his medication

What is the problem???

Can you imagine living in a world where you see something with your own eyes and you know all the background; your husband flips, he's nuts and he has not been taking his meds. He then puts the cops in a position where they gotta figure it, in the middle of action, running, pulling their weapons, evaluating where the innocents are, chasing a guy who SAYS HE HAS A BOMB, out loud, and who turns to come back at you...RIGHT NOW. WHAT DO YOU DO?

BANG

Your dead. Maybe everybody?

Or

BANG

He, the guy acting pretty freaking dangerous, is dead.

No one is questioning this, not even the wife. Not at all.


Thus, the Post:

judgment ought to wait until the facts become clear

BECOME CLEAR TO WHO??? OR WHOM???



Nut/killer: (jumps up) "I have a BOMB!"

Air Marshall: "Can you hold on a sec? Air Marshall here. I gotta make a phone call to DC real quick..."

Ring: "Washington Post, editorial desk, may I help you?"


AM: "Hi, we got a guy here, Oh, I'm sorry, I am Air Marshall Harry Callahan and my badge number is #1234 and I'm working flight #321 out of Denver, we're in Miami now...hold on a minute....Sir. SIR! I asked NICELY if you'd hold up a minute with the bomb thing....Well?...THANK YOU. Jesus H. ...People are SO impatient these days. Anyway, Post? I was wondering if you could come down, like right now and check this out with your own eyes before we take the, or should I say 'a' next step???"

Post: "Well...it's almost lunch, man, and my kid has a game after work today...how about tomorrow?"

AM: "Hold on. I'll check...Bomb dude? Hey can we put this on hold until...SIR! Where are you going?......Sorry, Post? He ran away. I guess he was kidding...sorry to bother you. May I ask one question though? Should I follow him???........depends? Depends on WHAT?"


This is maddness. This is ####ing maddness.

 

[Bustem' Down]

You know, this is Bullsh!t. First of all, if he was brown, no one would have a problem. Now that I have that out of my system.

This is what is going to happen. Mentally ill or not, we CANNOT take the chance, and if someone makes a threat and after repeated warnings is still a threat, then eliminate it. When I was on my ship training our pier sentries, we used pregnant women, and bombs in baby strollers and taught them to shoot these people if necessary. I wanted to use a 5 year old boy with a fake bomb on his chest, but my chief said no. If you want to be safe, you have to be prepared to pay the consequenses, you have to be hard. Sure, it's a sad thing that that guy had to die, but there was no other way to do it. Are we to just take anyone's word that someone it ill? So that two terrorists can get on a plane and cover thier asses?

 

[aps45819]

Don't worry, Lt. Cain will uncover the evidence.

 

[Larry Gude]

See...

Sure, it's a sad thing that that guy had to die

...that's part of the mind set, I think.

If it's a good shoot, and EVERYTHING points to that, then it is NOT sad; it is a GOOD thing; the system, the plan, worked. Hoo-ray!!!!!

You know how this #### works. Sending some little kid with a bomb is simple but brilliant; it would work.

And that is the goal of the BG's; what will work?

Why not send some stooge out, tell him to act crazy, claim he has a bomb and see what happens. Provoke a respone.

After action:

Did the good guys flinch?

Did they hesitate?

Did they call the paper before proceeding?

Where is the gap, the weakness, we can exploit?

Well, now we and the bad guys know that there is likely to be some top to bottom 'investigation' of how to make an imperfect job perfect and hence more stres on the guys in the field, more BS training to look for every possible reason not to shoot, one more thing they have to compute in a life and death situation, when we should be promoting the opposite; WE WILL SHOOT YOUR ASS, DEAD.



Come on, POST! We KNOW that Atta and company did dry runs WITH box cutters to see what would happen. THINK.

THINK you morons!!!

 

[Bushy23]

I would hope someday our technology could reach a point where there would be no possible way someone could ever bring a bomb on board a plane. Therefore the marshall could have just caught up to him, punched him, and grabbed the briefcase. Pretty sad that we still have such a lack of confidence in our xrays and readers to still believe a guy will have a bomb in his briefcase.

 

[Bustem' Down]

I would hope someday our technology could reach a point where there would be no possible way someone could ever bring a bomb on board a plane. Therefore the marshall could have just caught up to him, punched him, and grabbed the briefcase. Pretty sad that we still have such a lack of confidence in our xrays and readers to still believe a guy will have a bomb in his briefcase.

Tell me, what does a bomb look like?

 

[CMC122]

I would hope someday our technology could reach a point where there would be no possible way someone could ever bring a bomb on board a plane. Therefore the marshall could have just caught up to him, punched him, and grabbed the briefcase. Pretty sad that we still have such a lack of confidence in our xrays and readers to still believe a guy will have a bomb in his briefcase.

A. People with mental illness who are paranoid do not go down with a punch.


B. A fresh high school graduate can get a job checking bags. Nuff said.

 

[itsbob]

Therefore the marshall could have just caught up to him, punched him, and grabbed the briefcase. Pretty sad that we still have such a lack of confidence in our xrays and readers to still believe a guy will have a bomb in his briefcase.

you still believe in Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, and that he didn't have sex with that woman.. don't you!?

 

[Ponytail]

I would hope someday our technology could reach a point where there would be no possible way someone could ever bring a bomb on board a plane. Therefore the marshall could have just caught up to him, punched him, and grabbed the briefcase. Pretty sad that we still have such a lack of confidence in our xrays and readers to still believe a guy will have a bomb in his briefcase.

It's not that they didn't trust the equipment or the current processes, but could YOU make the decision in that situation where a guy acting in an aggressive manner says that he has a bomb? What would YOU have done, right then, if it was YOUR responsibility to guarantee the safety of those on the plane, and those in the airport where the guy was heading.

Keep in mind that it was probably not a quite atmosphere. It's not like the guys wife was the only one screaming, on that plane. What would YOU have been able to hear?


The technology is coming...

http://www.forbes.com/technology/2004/08/03/cx_ah_0803bombs.html

http://www.forbes.com/associatedpress/feeds/ap/2005/07/26/ap2157915.html

 

[Ponytail]

He never said "bomb"???

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/12/09/D8ECPT4G6.html

 

[2ndAmendment]

...
Come on, POST! We KNOW that Atta and company did dry runs WITH box cutters to see what would happen. THINK.

THINK you morons!!!

The morons do little thinking. They are playing to the crowd trying to sell papers and sensationalism sells.

 

[itsbob]

Armed police boarded the aircraft after the shooting, with some passengers in hysterics. McAlhany said he remembers having a shotgun pressed into his head by one officer, and hearing cries and screams from many passengers aboard the aircraft after the shooting in the jetway.

"This was wrong," McAlhany said. "This man should be with his family for Christmas. Now he's dead."


He's the ONLY one that had a shotgun pressed to his head? Think this guy might have alterior motives? Where are the other witnesses that can verify his claim about having a shotgun to his head.. they went out of their way to find THREE people out of 50 that DIDN'T hear the dead guy say anything about a bomb.

 

[vraiblonde]

I would hope someday our technology could reach a point where there would be no possible way someone could ever bring a bomb on board a plane. Therefore the marshall could have just caught up to him, punched him, and grabbed the briefcase. Pretty sad that we still have such a lack of confidence in our xrays and readers to still believe a guy will have a bomb in his briefcase.

This HAS to be Post of the Day!

 

[Bruzilla]

He never said "bomb"???

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/12/09/D8ECPT4G6.html

This is what gets me about reporters today. The first thing you learn in cop school is that eyewitnesses are usually about 80% wrong in what they observe. So you have one guy who says he didn't hear something, and this becomes a story and a source of allegations that this guy didn't say the B-word. Oy vey!

 

[Ponytail]

This is what gets me about reporters today. The first thing you learn in cop school is that eyewitnesses are usually about 80% wrong in what they observe. So you have one guy who says he didn't hear something, and this becomes a story and a source of allegations that this guy didn't say the B-word. Oy vey!

yea, we're taught the same thing for aircraft accident investigation. Funny, people will swear up and down that they hear, or saw something and believe whole heartedly that they did, and can actually pass a lie detector test, but eventually be proven to be wrong.

Something else I heard that backs up the fact that witnesses aren't reliable, is that due to DNA testing, since it's incorporation into crime investigation, ex-con #164 (I belive that is right) was released from jail yesterday after having been in there for 25 years for a rape he was accused of. The DNA testing cleared him.

 

[Toxick]

I would hope someday our technology could reach a point where there would be no possible way someone could ever bring a bomb on board a plane.

Yeah. I hope someday teleportation technology reaches a stage that the entire point is moot.

However, until then, I reckon I'll just play with the cards I'm dealt.

Therefore the marshall could have just caught up to him, punched him, and grabbed the briefcase.

Are you, by chance, high on drugs?

Pretty sad that we still have such a lack of confidence in our xrays and readers to still believe a guy will have a bomb in his briefcase.

The guy said that he had a BOMB in his briefcase. It wasn't like he said he had a stick of chewing gum in his briefcase. If he reached the bomb, and detonated it, lots of people die in a splattery dripping mess.

There's no second chance to regroup after that happens.

If someone says they have a bomb, and they start reaching into the bag, you shoot the SOB before you have 250 dead people to suck up with a wet-vac.

 

[Bustem' Down]

I don't think Bushy is coming back.

 

[Bruzilla]

yea, we're taught the same thing for aircraft accident investigation. Funny, people will swear up and down that they hear, or saw something and believe whole heartedly that they did, and can actually pass a lie detector test, but eventually be proven to be wrong.

Something else I heard that backs up the fact that witnesses aren't reliable, is that due to DNA testing, since it's incorporation into crime investigation, ex-con #164 (I belive that is right) was released from jail yesterday after having been in there for 25 years for a rape he was accused of. The DNA testing cleared him.

I was in the middle of an investigations class at the PA State Police Academy when two men burst through the door, knocked over some desks, and wrestled and fought for about a minute before running out the door. The instructor directed each of us in the class to write a detailed description of what we had seen, and we did. The end results varied a bit, but we thought we were able to reconstruct what had happened based on jelling our reports together. Boy, were we wrong. The biggest thing we all missed was that both subjects were women! I learned eight then and there that eyewitness descriptions are helpful, but not necessarily useful.