The results of the dumbed-down generation

[bcp]

Texas... no unions.

Texas... not that many legal workers for a union to worry about.

 

[BuddyLee]

Guess that takes out the option of becoming a teacher.

 

[Kain99]

Is that what you were doing? Good thing you "spent" it doing something instead of wasting it. Besides you are fully aware that my comment was just a little affectionate ribbing taken with that opening you readily provided. You know I love ya' Baby.

I know you love me Ken... As I do you... Its just sooo nice to hear!

 

[czygvtwkr]

Sadly its not the teachers unions that is the cause of this. I use to live in a state that didn't have a teachers union and the same thing went on.

The problem is the lack of backbone of the board of education. My highschool had 12 valedictorians and 10 salutorians out of a graduating class of 130 because if they chose one parents would be on the phone and possibly their lawyers because their kid wasnt the one. A girl that didnt make cheerleader sued the school and suddenly she was a cheerleader.

Im also appaled by the ignorance of the engineers working at PAX, I am an engineer myself and find many engineers are basically ignorant. I was a real ballbuster when I was a graduate teaching assistant but I bet it made my students better engineers, I even had a parent call me because I gave the kid a C. I explained to them he was never in class and they were shocked.

 

[bohman]

Go for it Hessian, I've disagreed with your viewpoint on other issues but I'll back you on this one. Passing grades for students who didn't earn them do nothing to prepare them for real life.

Not that curving tests didn't save my ass a few times, but I learned more from the teachers who were harder on me.

 

[sleuth]

I'm not for grade inflation by any means.
But what about those teachers who give tests on material that was never covered, or give 25 problems knowing full well that even their best students will be lucky to get half of them done.

I knew of some professors that readily admitted to this. They knew you wouldn't finish.

If it hadn't been for those curves, I would have flunked many a tests, even though I may have had one of the top grades in the class.

 

[SamSpade]

I'm not for grade inflation by any means.
But what about those teachers who give tests on material that was never covered, or give 25 problems knowing full well that even their best students will be lucky to get half of them done.

I knew of some professors that readily admitted to this. They knew you wouldn't finish.

If it hadn't been for those curves, I would have flunked many a tests, even though I may have had one of the top grades in the class.

The professors I knew did this on purpose, and in part - I agree with it.

What they want is to find a way to reward the ones who really busted their balls to know the material, to weed out the ones who did the minimum. I know I had tests where after you did the easy problems, you then had to tackle the ones that actually required you to think beyond the stuff you learned in homework, and actually apply the knowledge yourself.

Of course, there were also ball-busters who either wanted to humiliate you with how much THEY knew - or as one prof put it, fail most of his class because he had tenure.

 

[MMDad]

Wanker

To hell with that. Many a business tycoon was a mediocre or failing student. They said that dropping out of school was the best thing that ever happened to them because it freed them to pursue their real interests. So I say give 'em the boot - sink or swim time.

JPC Sr. was a dropout. Not many better vandals than him!

 

[MMDad]

I'm not for grade inflation by any means.
But what about those teachers who give tests on material that was never covered, or give 25 problems knowing full well that even their best students will be lucky to get half of them done.

I knew of some professors that readily admitted to this. They knew you wouldn't finish.

If it hadn't been for those curves, I would have flunked many a tests, even though I may have had one of the top grades in the class.

Technical math with Calc. The instructor insisted he would not grade on a curve. He hadn't returned an assignment to us in weeks, so we had no feedback, and he tried to cram half of the course into the last week. I was only able to answer about 3/4 of the questions on the final, and I wasn't very confident in some of those. I expected a solid fail, but got an A. I guess he changed his "grade on a curve" philosophy once he realized that failing the whole class wouldn't look good.

 

[Spoiled]

First off I am a liberal arts major, this last semester I did more reading and writing than any of my friends who are English majors... I agree that the teachers i got the most from are the ones who didnt curve... I remember girls crying in Mr. Flood's class at Leonardtown crying when they got their papers back, covered in red writing and a big 30% at the top... He would then give you plenty of opportunity to make it up, most people chose to sit there and complain while trying to argue the grades, never worked. I agree having to teach to the test is a problem in the highschools and even moreso in middle school...

if its the teachers fault (they have been out for weeks, the got behind on the lesson, etc...) kids are failing then sure curve it, provided they didnt have the means of getting the information themselves in a reasonable manner (reading the assigned material...)... if its the kids fault, like as mentioned before what ever...

 

[BuddyLee]

He would then give you plenty of opportunity to make it up, most people chose to sit there and complain while trying to argue the grades, never worked.

Which brings up a superb point in light of this thread topic. I often see more whiners than doer's, especially back in high school. Now looking at some of the folks I went to high school with, I see where that frame of mind has led them.

 

[Mikeinsmd]

First off I am a liberal arts major,

Start practicing now....

"Would you like to try one of our combo meals today?"
"Would you like fries with that?"
"Would you like to supersize?"

 

[2ndAmendment]

I'm not for grade inflation by any means.
But what about those teachers who give tests on material that was never covered, or give 25 problems knowing full well that even their best students will be lucky to get half of them done.

I knew of some professors that readily admitted to this. They knew you wouldn't finish.

If it hadn't been for those curves, I would have flunked many a tests, even though I may have had one of the top grades in the class.

Did you have a book for the course? Was the material covered in the book? If you did and it was, it was covered and valid test material. Was it in the lectures? Same answer.

 

[sleuth]

Did you have a book for the course? Was the material covered in the book? If you did and it was, it was covered and valid test material. Was it in the lectures? Same answer.

It was not covered in lectures. We had assigned readings in the text and it was not in those assigned readings. It may have been elsewhere in the book.

Most of my professors had the philosophy that if it was worth testing you over, it would be covered in class.

I liked the ones who gave the objectives at the beginning of each unit.
A. This is what I expect you to learn.
B. This is what I will teach you.
C. This is what you will be expected to learn on your own.
D. You will be tested on A, B, and C.

Only a few put it that plainly, though.

There were a few who liked to test out of the "recommended texts" for the course, which usually meant I would have had to drop another $100-$200 for books he didn't really use except to stump students.

 

[Spoiled]

Which brings up a superb point in light of this thread topic. I often see more whiners than doer's, especially back in high school. Now looking at some of the folks I went to high school with, I see where that frame of mind has led them.

Most people think its easier to whine than do, ive found just doing is easier on everyone... If i get it right the first time no need to stress and complain... Ive found very few teachers at my school who give into the whining...

We have a professor that is from Germany who teaches; he is a total hard ass and seems like a complete ####### in class... He is one of those that will had you your failed test back and say "pathetic". People hated the class, the man stuck to the syllabus the entire time and it really wasn’t a difficult class. People tried to sleep in it and he would tell them "attendance isn’t mandatory, go back to your room if you want to sleep". He had a 24 hours complain policy, don’t complain until you have waited 24 hours after the thing you have to complain about has been assigned/done (bad test grade, assignment, etc)... This made it so you had to put effort into complaining (had to remember and track him down) and it was some what of a formulated complaint. He was always willing to work with people who needed help outside of class and stuff, which is why he had little sympathy towards those who didn’t do well.. I got a B in the class and I was happy with the professor, although many others weren’t.

Start practicing now....

"Would you like to try one of our combo meals today?"
"Would you like fries with that?"
"Would you like to supersize?"

I think I’ve already got something worked out for after college, and it doesn’t involve fast food if that fails, who knows, i could become a teacher


edit: I know its mandatory at our school for a professor to hand out a syllabus at the beginning of the semester covering everything that is expected and will be done in class... Many professors have for the first assignment "Read the entire book cover to cover" you get to class (no one has read obviously) and they say everything in that book is testable, even if i forget to cover it in class or we dont get to it. Cuts back on excused for low test grades from students, though Ive never ofund that to be a problem in those classes

 

[BuddyLee]

Most people think its easier to whine than do, ive found just doing is easier on everyone... If i get it right the first time no need to stress and complain... Ive found very few teachers at my school who give into the whining...

I'm a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work the more I have of it. ~Thomas Jefferson<!--GCLE-->

We have a professor that is from Germany who teaches; he is a total hard ass and seems like a complete ####### in class... He is one of those that will had you your failed test back and say "pathetic". People hated the class, the man stuck to the syllabus the entire time and it really wasn’t a difficult class. People tried to sleep in it and he would tell them "attendance isn’t mandatory, go back to your room if you want to sleep". He had a 24 hours complain policy, don’t complain until you have waited 24 hours after the thing you have to complain about has been assigned/done (bad test grade, assignment, etc)... This made it so you had to put effort into complaining (had to remember and track him down) and it was some what of a formulated complaint. He was always willing to work with people who needed help outside of class and stuff, which is why he had little sympathy towards those who didn’t do well.. I got a B in the class and I was happy with the professor, although many others weren’t.

Boy do you hate those professors at the beginning of the semester but afterward you silently thank them for all that you've learned.

 

[2ndAmendment]

It was not covered in lectures. We had assigned readings in the text and it was not in those assigned readings. It may have been elsewhere in the book.

Most of my professors had the philosophy that if it was worth testing you over, it would be covered in class.

I liked the ones who gave the objectives at the beginning of each unit.
A. This is what I expect you to learn.
B. This is what I will teach you.
C. This is what you will be expected to learn on your own.
D. You will be tested on A, B, and C.

Only a few put it that plainly, though.

There were a few who liked to test out of the "recommended texts" for the course, which usually meant I would have had to drop another $100-$200 for books he didn't really use except to stump students.

If it is in the book it is valid for test.

 

[Spoiled]

I just dont understand how people can get through college without understand credit, how to balance a checkbook or perform simple math to figure out if they can make it to get gas... I took Pre-calc as my gened math, was a lot more difficult than in highschool (may have had a lot to do with my half jordanian half palestinian teacher) but i got through... Most people take lower maths if its not for their major, but seriously... that is just -- i dont have a word for it other than wow... they must be very sheltered and parents must help them with everything.... Even jersey girls learn to pump gas in college...

 

[BuddyLee]

I just dont understand how people can get through college without understand credit, how to balance a checkbook or perform simple math to figure out if they can make it to get gas... I took Pre-calc as my gened math, was a lot more difficult than in highschool (may have had a lot to do with my half jordanian half palestinian teacher) but i got through... Most people take lower maths if its not for their major, but seriously... that is just -- i dont have a word for it other than wow... they must be very sheltered and parents must help them with everything.... Even jersey girls learn to pump gas in college...

I see most of that as common sense, college kills a lot of common sense. When you fill your brain up with Hobbes, Locke, and Rousseau in one of four classes you don't leave much room for the smaller things, the everyday things, the assumed.

I heard once that Einstein didn't even worry about learning to tie his shoes because he had more complexities in other fields of study to ponder on.

 

[ericw]

We have a professor that is from Germany who teaches; he is a total hard ass and seems like a complete ####### in class... He is one of those that will had you your failed test back and say "pathetic". People hated the class, the man stuck to the syllabus the entire time and it really wasn’t a difficult class. People tried to sleep in it and he would tell them "attendance isn’t mandatory, go back to your room if you want to sleep". He had a 24 hours complain policy, don’t complain until you have waited 24 hours after the thing you have to complain about has been assigned/done (bad test grade, assignment, etc)... This made it so you had to put effort into complaining (had to remember and track him down) and it was some what of a formulated complaint. He was always willing to work with people who needed help outside of class and stuff, which is why he had little sympathy towards those who didn’t do well.. I got a B in the class and I was happy with the professor, although many others weren’t.

What class was this? Curious because I'm a Towson alum (Class of '91).