This is my son Griffin, and he may have measles.

[somdfunguy]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10155168508795632&set=a.322130010631.336875.730360631&type=1


What a terribly sad and heartbreaking story

This is my son Griffin, and he may have measles.

On February 9th, I received a phone call from York Region Public Health, informing me that Griffin, alongside my mother and I, was potentially exposed to the measles virus while attending a newborn weigh-in appointment at my doctor’s office in Markham on January 27th.

Griffin was 15 days old at the time.

I was informed that someone who later developed measles sat in the doctor’s waiting room between 1 hour before and 30 minutes before we arrived. I was also informed that measles is regarded as “airborne” and can stay in the air and on surfaces up to 2 hours after the infected person has left.

I was then asked if I had had the measles vaccine. I had.

Griffin. Griffin had not. Can not.

I was advised to not be around small children. If I worked in such an environment I would be written off work. I do work in such an environment; my home. Where I now sit with Griffin and my 3 year old, Aurelia, who has only been able to get one MMR vaccine so far. She is now, technically, exposed too. We are to sit tight and watch for symptoms: fever, cough, runny nose. If we develop any of these we are to call my doctor and arrange to come in under official medical precautions. We are to wait at home, in isolation, until February 17th, after which the 21 days of possible incubation will have passed and we are clear.

So, Griffin is now Schrödinger’s baby. Simultaneously with measles, and without it. Until he develops symptoms, or until a further 7 days pass. One or other.

And I’m angry. Angry as hell.

I won’t get angry at or blame the person in the waiting room. I would have likely done the same thing...you get sick, you go to the doctor. I have no idea what their story is and I will never know. But I do know one thing:

If you have chosen to not vaccinate yourself or your child, I blame you.

I blame you.

You have stood on the shoulders of our collective protection for too long. From that high height, we have given you the PRIVILEGE of our protection, for free. And in return, you gave me this week. A week from hell. Wherein I don’t know if my BABY will develop something that has DEATH as a potential outcome.

DEATH.

Now, let’s unpack this shall we. All out on the table.

You have NO IDEA what this “potential outcome” means. NO IDEA. I do. Unfortunately, I do.

You think you are protecting your children from thimerosal? You aren’t. It’s not in their vaccine.

You think you are protecting them from autism? You aren’t. There is no, none, nada, nothing in science that proves this. If you want to use google instead of science to “prove me wrong” then I am happy to call you an imbecile as well as misinformed.

You think you are protecting them through extracts and homeopathy and positive thoughts and Laws of Attraction and dancing by candlelight on a full moon? You aren’t. I PROTECT YOUR CHILD. We protect your child. By being concerned world citizens who care about ourselves, our fellow man, and our most vulnerable. So we vaccinate ourselves and our children.

You think you are protecting them by letting them eat their shovel full of dirt and reducing antibiotics and eating organic? You aren’t. As an unvaccinated person you are only protected by our good graces. WE LET YOU BE SO PRIVILEGED thanks to our willingness to vaccinate ourselves and our children.

You know what vaccines protect your children from? Pain. Suffering. Irreparable harm. Death.

And you would be the first to line up if you had an inkling of what the death of a child feels like. You would be crawling through the streets on your hands and knees, begging, BEGGING to get that vaccine into your precious babies because that is what I would have done, if I could, to save my daughter.

The fact is, there was no vaccine for her. Not for her illness. And she died. She died at age five and a half, and she is gone.

And I watch these arguments trotted out on Facebook and twitter citing false science and long discredited“studies” that just won’t stop and Jenny McCarthy quotes and “it’s MY choice” to not vaccinate...and I think...what would you have done if your child lay dying? Would you give them a scientifically proven, safe and effective vaccine and risk the minuscule likelihood of a side effect? Or would you let them go, knowing that at least they won’t develop autism (which they wouldn’t even develop anyway because SCIENCE)?

And don’t you DARE tell me that you wouldn’t vaccinate them then. Don’t you dare. You have no idea what it feels like to go through what we went through.

So, look at Griffin. Tell me why he gets to bear the brunt of your stupidity and reckless abuse of our protection? Tell me.

Seven more days until I know that my baby is safe. Seven more days.

How is your week going, anti-vaxxers?

 

[Tilted]

for Ms. Hibben-White.

For Griffin - assuming this is a true story which, though I have no particular reason to doubt that it is, I recognize that it's possible that it isn't - I offer what little I can, my heartfelt hopes that he'll be fine.

Here's the point that should not be lost sight off:

You have stood on the shoulders of our collective protection for too long. From that high height, we have given you the PRIVILEGE of our protection, for free. And in return, you gave me this week. A week from hell. Wherein I don’t know if my BABY will develop something that has DEATH as a potential outcome.

...

You think you are protecting them through extracts and homeopathy and positive thoughts and Laws of Attraction and dancing by candlelight on a full moon? You aren’t. I PROTECT YOUR CHILD. We protect your child. By being concerned world citizens who care about ourselves, our fellow man, and our most vulnerable. So we vaccinate ourselves and our children.

You think you are protecting them by letting them eat their shovel full of dirt and reducing antibiotics and eating organic? You aren’t. As an unvaccinated person you are only protected by our good graces. WE LET YOU BE SO PRIVILEGED thanks to our willingness to vaccinate ourselves and our children.

....

Tell me why he gets to bear the brunt of your stupidity and reckless abuse of our protection?

Parents that don't vaccinate their children (beyond the small number that really can't for particular medical reasons) only get to indulge their idiocy and their arrogance, at relatively low risk, because so many others do vaccinate their children. I'd suggest that we can fairly think of them as some think of the so-called entitlement folks. They think they are entitled to be protected, that they should get that protection not by paying the price themselves but by having the rest of society pay it for them. Others are paying their risk and inconvenience bill for them, others are bearing for them the life need of being reasonably well-informed and responsible.

The best answer, I think, is that these people be stigmatized by much of the rest of society. They should be looked down upon, shamed into being responsible parents. Though for some that may not be possible, it likely is possible for enough.

 

[migtig]

I'm sorry but the pro-vaccinate crowd is just as ignorant as the anti-vaccinate crowd. Both are using emotional based arguments and are selecting their own version of fiction, excuse me, truth. :eyeroll:

I haven't seen a single logical argument from either crowd.

Riddle me this, was anybody in here born prior to 1975? If so, then have you been vaccinated? When? Because unless it was in the late 80's to recent time, your vaccination is worthless. So why haven't you gone and been vaccinated again?

 

[GURPS]

The best answer, I think, is that these people be stigmatized by much of the rest of society. They should be looked down upon, shamed into being responsible parents. Though for some that may not be possible, it likely is possible for enough.

as larry g pointed out, these are the same granola crunching hippies / hipsters that believe lock stock and barrel in Man Made Climate Change

 

[GURPS]

Riddle me this, was anybody in here born prior to 1975?

 

[dachsom]

I'm sorry but the pro-vaccinate crowd is just as ignorant as the anti-vaccinate crowd. Both are using emotional based arguments and are selecting their own version of fiction, excuse me, truth. :eyeroll:

I haven't seen a single logical argument from either crowd.

Riddle me this, was anybody in here born prior to 1975? If so, then have you been vaccinated? When? Because unless it was in the late 80's to recent time, your vaccination is worthless. So why haven't you gone and been vaccinated again?

I was re-vaccinated in 1984 in NC after his school notified us that if you were born after 1957, you needed a booster shot.

 

[MMDad]

Riddle me this, was anybody in here born prior to 1975? If so, then have you been vaccinated? When? Because unless it was in the late 80's to recent time, your vaccination is worthless. So why haven't you gone and been vaccinated again?

I have been because the risk to my kids and to others far outweighs the miniscule risk to myself. How about you?

 

[migtig]

I have been because the risk to my kids and to others far outweighs the miniscule risk to myself. How about you?

Yes, both in the high school gym and then again when the Army forced it on me. But my point is, I don't see any talking heads spouting that adults may need to be revaccinated as well. It's just as easily an adult spreading measles as an unvaccinated child. And many adults think they've been vaccinated so why worry about it, not realizing their vaccination is worthless. Everybody is so busy placing "blame" that nobody is discussing the facts that would help control this outbreak.


Another thing that seems to be taboo, is this outbreak of measles came at the same time there was a huge influx of illegals in our country from third world countries and those children were immediately shoved into the public school system. Of course they didn't have the medical care that individuals in our country have. By the time they are all vaccinated up and catch up medically, measles will once again be almost completely eradicated in this country. The actual number of US born individuals who do not vaccinate their children in this country due to autism beliefs or whatever is actually miniscule.

Also nobody is really discussing what measles is. Are you going to die? Absolutely, one day, but the statistical odds are very low that you'll die from measles. You'll be sick and miserable, but you'll be sick and miserable if you catch the flu or get shingles or half a million other things. You have the risk of developing a complication of an ear infection, of pneumonia, but you run the same risks with the flu. You have the risk of having a more "serious" complication, which you also run with the flu.

If everyone wants to get a one up on this, then IMHO the talking heads, the bloggers, the politicians, everybody, needs to start discussing facts, using some logic and stop using emotional based arguments that does nothing but spin more people into heated debates over....emotion, fear, .

 

[Tilted]

migtig - We have been discussing some of the things you mention, in other threads.

As for adults being vaccinated, yes there are some that do need to be vaccinated (or re-vaccinated), and I've seen that discussed in a number of places. Many don't need to be though - e.g., because their original single vaccination is sufficient because they aren't otherwise at high risk of getting measles (even a single vaccination, from back before we decided we should be doing two, is fairly effective), and because many have had measles.

As for the illegal immigrants issue - that's not likely to be the problem. It's something I posted about in a different thread, the vaccination rates in Mexico and Central America are generally better than they are here in the United States. Yes, isolated cases are brought into the U.S., but likely mostly from places where vaccination rates aren't high enough - e.g., brought in by tourists or brought back by Americans who visited other places (and who weren't immune for whatever reason). But isolated cases aren't the problem, that's not avoidable (not without greater effort from other parts of the world) - the problem is the potential for outbreak, the potential for isolated cases to create increasing numbers of secondary cases. And the science and math on that front is pretty straight forward (though not necessarily knowably precise) - the potential for outbreak depends in large part on the immunity rate within a given community, and that depends in large part on the vaccination rate in that community. If enough people are immune - if, say, 95% of people have been vaccinated - then you can't really have a measles outbreak. The math just doesn't work. You can have isolated cases, but the disease is at worst static when it comes to retransmission - one person can't infect 3 others who infect 2 others who infect 3 others and so on until you have an epidemic.

The point being, regardless of what causes a particular isolated case, the more important issue is whether the population of a given community is sufficiently immunized. The U.S. as a whole is about where it would need to be to make outbreak impossible (though it would be nice if it were a bit higher - frankly, 99% would be nice) if that immunization rate was spread evenly across the country. But it isn't, there are communities where the immunization rate is meaningfully lower - too low - and that is what creates the potential for outbreak and endangers not only those who have chosen to not be vaccinated but some of those who have been vaccinated (as the effectiveness of the vaccine is not 100%). And it, of course, endangers those that can't, for whatever reason, be vaccinated - e.g. because they are too young or they are too sick.

The call for people to vaccinate their children isn't all based on emotion. It's based on science and math, it's based on things we know - on medicine. And it's based on legitimate threats that exist (or would exist) if too many people choose not to vaccinate. Vaccination is not 100% effective, and there are some people who can't be vaccinated for various reasons, so to get to the level of immunity we really need to be collectively protected we should strive to have almost everyone (for whom vaccination is possible) vaccinated. That's not the case right now, in some areas the rate is below 90%.

 

[RoseRed]

I went to a chicken pox party in the early 70's.

 

[migtig]

I understand and concur. I'm very logical and I'm not against vaccinating. You gave me information that I already had. Herd Immunity, right?

However, my posts are in response to the OP's link to a blogger's emotional drama cry out. Drama. Emotional pleas. Tragedy. Oh the tragedy. Ohhhhhhh :boohoo: I think crap like that does more damage than good.

 

[migtig]

I went to a chicken pox party in the early 70's.

Wow. And did you catch chicken pox? I had chicken pox in the early 80s. It was a not awesome experience.

 

[Ken King]

I'm sorry but the pro-vaccinate crowd is just as ignorant as the anti-vaccinate crowd. Both are using emotional based arguments and are selecting their own version of fiction, excuse me, truth. :eyeroll:

I haven't seen a single logical argument from either crowd.

Riddle me this, was anybody in here born prior to 1975? If so, then have you been vaccinated? When? Because unless it was in the late 80's to recent time, your vaccination is worthless. So why haven't you gone and been vaccinated again?

Don't need the vaccinations, had the usual childhood diseases (and suffered through them). Our big vaccination was polio.

 

[Tilted]

I understand and concur. I'm very logical and I'm not against vaccinating. You gave me information that I already had. Herd Immunity, right?

However, my posts are in response to the OP's link to a blogger's emotional drama cry out. Drama. Emotional pleas. Tragedy. Oh the tragedy. Ohhhhhhh :boohoo: I think crap like that does more damage than good.

Sure. It's an emotional plea, but sometimes that's what resonates.

The science and the math matter, and we shouldn't lose sight of them - they shouldn't be excluded from the broader conversation. But in some contexts I think it's okay to take them for the givens that they are. Discussing the issue on that level isn't likely to do much good with some people - some people want so badly to believe what they want to believe that they're, effectively, beyond convincing. In some cases all that's left is to appeal to their emotions, or to their (latent) sense of shame.

As I suggested previously, I have no particular reason to think that the story from the OP isn't true. But it is the kind of thing someone with an agenda might make up to make a point, or to reinforce their point - it's the kind of emotional thing, as you correctly identify it, that is hard to argue against without seeming an ass. (I'm not suggesting it is a made up story, just that that's always possible with these kinds of things - the story is also the kind of thing that might actually happen to someone and that might motivate them to make a passionate Facebook posting.)

 

[somdfunguy]

The mother already went through one emotional tragedy losing her daughter. The mere thought of losing another, possibly two gives her a different perspective than most have ever had to face. Her post may help convince someone to get a vaccination. That made it worth writing, reading, and sharing for others to read.

 

[RoseRed]

Wow. And did you catch chicken pox? I had chicken pox in the early 80s. It was a not awesome experience.

Yes, that was the point. Get them early when young and over with. My mom had them in her teens and still had scars to show for it. She said it was horrible. I really don't remember having them because I was so young.

In the mid 80's I worked at a day care and tended to the 2 y/o's. one little girl, Heather, came down with the pox. Unfortunately, her mother didn't know it was bad to give her aspirin and she ended up in the hospital with Reyes Syndrome.

 

[MMDad]

I understand and concur. I'm very logical and I'm not against vaccinating. You gave me information that I already had. Herd Immunity, right?

However, my posts are in response to the OP's link to a blogger's emotional drama cry out. Drama. Emotional pleas. Tragedy. Oh the tragedy. Ohhhhhhh :boohoo: I think crap like that does more damage than good.

The scientific articles and fact based stories are already out there, yet there are still some stubborn people who refuse to believe science. They are emotion based, and what better way to reach out to them than with emotion?

 

[MMDad]

Yes, that was the point. Get them early when young and over with. My mom had them in her teens and still had scars to show for it. She said it was horrible. I really don't remember having them because I was so young.

In the mid 80's I worked at a day care and tended to the 2 y/o's. one little girl, Heather, came down with the pox. Unfortunately, her mother didn't know it was bad to give her aspirin and she ended up in the hospital with Reyes Syndrome.

We had chicken pox when my brother was 7 and I was 5. My brother had just had spinal surgery and was in a body cast from his shoulders to his ankles. I still remember him hitting his head against the wall to make the itching stop.

 

[belvak]

I'm sorry but the pro-vaccinate crowd is just as ignorant as the anti-vaccinate crowd. Both are using emotional based arguments and are selecting their own version of fiction, excuse me, truth. :eyeroll:

I haven't seen a single logical argument from either crowd.

Riddle me this, was anybody in here born prior to 1975? If so, then have you been vaccinated? When? Because unless it was in the late 80's to recent time, your vaccination is worthless. So why haven't you gone and been vaccinated again?

I had chicken pox and mumps when I was in first grade and I received the measles vaccine when it came out (elementary school, I think). I worked in the medical records section of a hospital in the mid to late 80's and all employees were required to get a measles vaccine. Most recently, with the birth of our second grandchild (a little boy this time) my daughter's doctor very strongly suggested that anyone who was going to be in close contact to the baby get the DTaP vaccine, so I got that one. As a matter of fact, most doctor offices no longer offer just the tetnus booster, only the combined shot.

So, I should be up-to-date. Except for the Shingles vaccine that insurance won't cover until I turn 60. That is the one that scares me. I'm hearing more and more of people in their 40's getting shingles. I don't know why the insurance companies won't lower the age limit. I would think it would cost them more money in care for people with shingles than the vaccines.

 

[Bay_Kat]

I got chicken pox from my son when I was 27. My older sister said she remembered me having them when I was little, but I guess I got them again. Worst thing ever.