Trouble with AP chemistry teachers

[Cletus_Vandam]

I had to jump in here.... The problem with public school systems isn't limited to St. Mary's County or LHS.

Everyone here can remember the story of how Dexter Manley managed to graduate from college unable to read. That story broke alomost twenty years ago.

Many of today's generation and the one before it [case in point Mr. Manley], have been handed HS and college credientials without working for them or being deserving of them. How many times do you hear complaints about someone who advances to the next grade or graduates without deserving it or knowing what they should to advance?

The school systems of today are more worried about the "bottom line" numbers [number of students that graduate, number that don't drop-out, minimize the number that get expelled, etc] then the student's and their education.

The real "bottom line" here is that those who want to learn have to sacrifice for those who could care less. Welcome to today's world where you don't have to work, don't have to have learned anything in school, but sociaty will reward you in some form.

 

[kwillia]

*speaking for my 18 yr old*

He "survived" the class with a high "B" during his junior year

This is what I wanted to hear... that it was doable for some. Thanks...

 

[theArtistFormerlyKnownAs]

This is what I wanted to hear... that it was doable for some. Thanks...

I misunderstood you for a second.

If anyone saw that post..disregard

 

[kwillia]

I misunderstood you for a second.

If anyone saw that post..disregard

Your new nickname is Flatulence.

 

[theArtistFormerlyKnownAs]

Your new nickname is Flatulence.

well now that is just silly.

 

[LateApex]

If it were the one lone student, then perhaps. The number of kids having an issue with the class does not support the idea the teacher was adequately doing their job.

There's always the teacher you try your darndest to get and the one you'd do anything not to have a class with. The kids who got Ms. McCarthy before she left were the fortunate chem students.

Meh.

Some of my upper level classes were a pain in the ass. Advanced Compiler Theory was one I remember. I would say roughly 2/3 of the class had an extremely hard time - while the others 'just got it.'

Now, is that to say the prof wasn't doing their job adequately.

No...

Let's face it. Not everyone can be a Neurosurgeon...

 

[jetmonkey]

gods and clods

Meh.

Some of my upper level classes were a pain in the ass. Advanced Compiler Theory was one I remember. I would say roughly 2/3 of the class had an extremely hard time - while the others 'just got it.'

Now, is that to say the prof wasn't doing their job adequately.

No...

Let's face it. Not everyone can be a Neurosurgeon...

 

[mommato2]

These are kids on the honor roll, they are not whiners. They've consistently taken upper level courses throughout high school and understand the concept of work. If AP courses do not require a teacher to teach, why do we pay them a salary? Regrettably not every teacher can be a Ms. McCarthy!

Oh, please. Honors students are the worst whiners! All about getting that weighted AP grade in as many classes as possible, not "is this the right class for me?"
This class has been team taught for many years by the same 2 teachers. Kids bail on this course every year and kids complain every year. And the kids that stick with it consistently get high marks on AP exams. Every year.
The marked difference is this whining and sense of entitlement exhibited by a small group of students who feel that they deserve special treatment. Not to mention the helicoptor parenting.
They are better off at CSM. The classes are easier than AP and to these kids, that's the primary issue. Real learning and preparation for real college is a distant second.

 

[czygvtwkr]

Wait until they go to college. I mean a real college to, not this CSM community college crap.

Community college standards
Go every day get my A
Pay my fee get my B
.
.
.
.
.

 

[itsbob]

As far as I know, my sister got through it and took her grade in-stride :shrug: Pretty sure she ended with a C, if not a D. The way I was always taught in school was...it is better (in the future, for your transcript) to have gotten a C in a difficult (see. AP) class, than to have gotten an A in a standard class.

:shrug:
I doubt there will be too many "survivors" who are also members of this site...

I would stick my neck out to say, that your sister with her possible "D" in this class learned 10 times the amount of the person with the A in the standard track Chemistry Class.

I've tended to have all my kids take higher level classes, even against the advice of the school. I'd rather have my kids have a 2.0 GPA in higher level classes, then a 4.0 in the the "standard" classes.

 

[ratzo]

This started as a misguided attempt to get a grade changed so the girl could become the class valedictorian. Along the way the foolishness of that argument drove the overbearing and obnoxious parents to switch tactics to teacher-bashing. The teacher has produced excellent results in the AP (yes, AP!) class , and is not the problem. This wacky family is just out to polish their egos.

 

[fredsaid2]

This started as a misguided attempt to get a grade changed so the girl could become the class valedictorian. Along the way the foolishness of that argument drove the overbearing and obnoxious parents to switch tactics to teacher-bashing. The teacher has produced excellent results in the AP (yes, AP!) class , and is not the problem. This wacky family is just out to polish their egos.

What are those results? Do you have a breakdown of grades; number of students, number of As, Bs, Cs? Just wondering...

 

[tiny_dancer33]

Oh, please. Honors students are the worst whiners! All about getting that weighted AP grade in as many classes as possible, not "is this the right class for me?"
This class has been team taught for many years by the same 2 teachers. Kids bail on this course every year and kids complain every year. And the kids that stick with it consistently get high marks on AP exams. Every year.
The marked difference is this whining and sense of entitlement exhibited by a small group of students who feel that they deserve special treatment. Not to mention the helicoptor parenting.
They are better off at CSM. The classes are easier than AP and to these kids, that's the primary issue. Real learning and preparation for real college is a distant second.

Whoa now, not true. In my AP Physics class senior year, a lot of us had problems with things similar to the complaints the girl in the article has - "I'm sure the teacher's not giving me all the points I deserve on this homework!" "The teacher changed the due date!" "The tests are impossible!" "We're expected to learn it on our own!"

But as much as we grumbled to each other, we were never presumptuous enough to take our problems to the administration. You don't take an AP anything class unless you expect to work your butt off in it, and to be challenged in a way you'll probably never be challenged in high school outside of IB courses. And when kids did complain to their parents enough to cause the parents to want to come storming down to see the teacher, the rest of us tried to shut them down pretty quickly. Junior and senior year, accelerated courses? You're on your own, honey. If you're lucky enough to get a teacher willing to take time after class, etc. to help you with your individualized problems, go for it. It does sound like this teacher was pretty lazy, but AP class is college level in terms of the coursework and the attitude surrounding it, for example - stuck with a professor you don't like? Well, you're SOL.

My point being...most AP/honors kids aren't whiners at all, they want as much as possible out of what the school system has to offer them, and kids who complain like this one aren't ready for it yet.

 

[ratzo]

What are those results? Do you have a breakdown of grades; number of students, number of As, Bs, Cs? Just wondering...

The AP Chem exams results! The only true test of AP acheivement since it is so widely deployed across many school jurisdictions. Individual grades are unfortunately very subject to local grade-inflation pressures - such as the pressure exerted by this irrational family!

 

[itsbob]

If the teachers really said they weren't going to teach the material to the students because college professors didn't teach, then they're wrong. I don't much care about this situation, but that part stood out to me. College professors most certainly do teach. They go over material in class, and expect you to study to really understand it. They most certainly answer questions, and they are usually always willing to help after class, etc. if a student asks. They don't hold students' hands, but they're usually willing to help if the student seeks it.

I'm not too sure about that.

Chemistry, and most scienses in college are all about research, experimentation and searching for answers, not having the answers spoon fed to you.

Of course I took one science class that was just the opposite... an Earth Sciences class. He'd give you the questions that were going to be on the test.. For example, he'd give us 25 questions, of which 15 were going to be on the test. We'd go over the answers in class for all 25, and all we had to do was memorize tha answers.. THAT is not teaching, and definitely not learning.

 

[fredsaid2]

The AP Chem exams results! The only true test of AP acheivement since it is so widely deployed across many school jurisdictions. Individual grades are unfortunately very subject to local grade-inflation pressures - such as the pressure exerted by this irrational family!

I've not seen results for this year's AP classes. Are you refering to results from last year? Do you have the Chem breakdown for 07?

 

[CalifrniaDreamn]

No way will this be disputed in public. Kids don't do things like that - buck their peers to stick up for a teacher. Can you even imagine that happening?

You never know. When I was in high school (in another area) several parents tried to get a teacher ousted. I spoke on her behalf along with several other students. While the teacher was a little eccentric, she was a good teacher and engaged in teaching.

I have heard that some of the teachers are less involved with their classrooms than others. I was dismayed to hear my daughter talking about watching tv shows during class, and they were not related to content.

 

[ratzo]

ka-ching!

Do you know that to massage their egos in this attempt to get a grade changed, these folks have hired a lawyer to plead their appeal before the BOE to trash this teacher. Therfore, the BOE has to hire a lawyer, and the SMCPS have to hire a lawyer. So public money that should be spent improving the education of all of our kids is now to be wasted to argue with these folks and their one child. Never wrestle with a pig, because you both get dirty and the pig loves it.

 

[vraiblonde]

Do you know that to massage their egos in this attempt to get a grade changed, these folks have hired a lawyer to plead their appeal before the BOE to trash this teacher. Therfore, the BOE has to hire a lawyer, and the SMCPS have to hire a lawyer. So public money that should be spent improving the education of all of our kids is now to be wasted to argue with these folks and their one child. Never wrestle with a pig, because you both get dirty and the pig loves it.

I hate people like this, who are so self-absorbed and think they're so important that they will kick and scream until they get their way, like tantruming toddlers.

THIS is where the snarly kids these days come from - parents like these nutjobs.

 

[awpitt]

Do you know that to massage their egos in this attempt to get a grade changed, these folks have hired a lawyer to plead their appeal before the BOE to trash this teacher. Therfore, the BOE has to hire a lawyer, and the SMCPS have to hire a lawyer. So public money that should be spent improving the education of all of our kids is now to be wasted to argue with these folks and their one child. Never wrestle with a pig, because you both get dirty and the pig loves it.

BOE & SMCPS are the same thing. Already have attorney on staff. If not, the County Attorney handles.