Ukraine / Russian War

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
[ more at the link - scroll down towards the bottom ]

In a companion article, the harried Times reported, “Mr. Trump is in the middle of executing one of the most jaw-dropping pivots in American foreign policy in generations, a 180-degree turn that will force friends and foes to recalibrate in fundamental ways.”

Mr. Le Drian angrily called the developments a “monstrous reversal of world alliances,” and also an “inversion of the truth.” The French President was also chatty. “Russia constitutes an existential threat to Europeans,” Macron told reporters yesterday. The usually cheerful bantamweight was not optimistic. “Do not think that the unthinkable cannot happen, including the worst,” he added darkly.

Presumably, by “the worst,” he meant the United States negotiating with Russia
without the EU’s permission.
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American neocons also had a lot of gripes. “It’s a disgraceful reversal of 80 years of American foreign policy,” complained Kori Schake, a former Bush national security aide and who now runs some shady, USAID-funded NGO or something. Ian Bond, deputy director of another sketchy NGO, the ‘Center for European Reform’, whined online, “Trump is siding with the aggressor, blaming the victim. In the Kremlin they must be jumping for joy.”

Perhaps to cure yesterday’s invitational faux pas, French President Macron dropped his breakfast croissant and quickly announced he would re-convene his emergency summit, but this time with more EU members invited. This time the ministers mean it; they plan to talk even more harshly than they did at Monday’s emergency meeting.

One surprising side-effect has been that the normally parsimonious Europeans are suddenly and enthusiastically offering to pay more of their share of NATO expenses. Shrill EU president Ursula von der Leyen announced in a speech yesterday that she would immediately propose an “escape clause for defense investments.” (In other words, she’ll waive a strict financial requirement that EU countries never exceed 3% budget deficits.) “This will allow member states to substantially increase their defense expenditure,” she explained.

By substantially borrowing money.

Maybe. But just now is not a very good time for big-time borrowing. The Times noted that “many European leaders, including Mr. Macron, find themselves in fragile political and economic positions in their own countries.” A French expert quoted for the story added, “Not many governments have the political capital to spend on all this.”



 
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GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
Speaking from Riyadh, Secretary of State Marco Rubio explained late yesterday that the negotiating teams had already nailed down the outlines of a three-part plan. First, the U.S. and Russia will re-establish diplomatic relations obliterated by the Biden Administration. For example, the mothballed Russian embassy in DC can re-open for normal diplomatic business.

Second, the US and Russia will explore brand new geopolitical and business opportunities together. Meaning, no more sanctions. And beyond that, it likely means new joint ventures, probably related to energy.

And third —last and least— they will discuss a structure to end the war in Ukraine.

At his press conference yesterday at Mar-a-Lago, Trump shocked and astounded the worldwide neocon establishment by “downplaying” the Russian aggression.

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CLIP: Trump triggers media over Ukraine comments (4:19).

“I hear that the Ukrainians are upset about not having a seat,” President Trump said. “Well, they’ve had a seat for three years. And a long time before that. This could have been settled very easily. Just a half-baked negotiator could have settled this years ago without, I think, the loss of much land, or very little land. Without the loss of any lives. And without the loss of cities that are now just laying on their sides.”

Trump —who himself just won the popular vote— also dismissed Zelensky’s approval rating as flatlining “around 4%,” He also seemed to endorse the Russian argument that Ukraine needs to have democratic elections. It was another weird turnaround; the corporate media are forced to defend not having elections and the dictator Putin is insisting that Ukrainians be allowed to vote.

Zelensky, of course, opposes holding elections in Ukraine.

Then Trump asked the reporters, “Where is all the money?” That question did not bode well for the Ukrainians.

The media hoped or assumed that Trump’s rhetoric would be similar to the Biden Administration’s pugilistic rhetoric about Russia. But it has flipped, nearly evenly. Trump clearly thinks Ukraine could have avoided the war if it wanted to. So do I, for that matter, although nobody cares what I think.

Trump finished his comments saying, “I think I have the power to end this war.” That’s what we are all counting on.



 
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GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member



Just a reminder that we can’t betray a country we have no alliance with. And an alliance cannot just be announced and brought into being.

There’s a process.

Understand that I’ve worked with Ukrainians on deployment and trained them, and I support them and want them to win their war.

But America has to pursue its own interests, and its interest is that this war end even on terms that Ukrainians might find distasteful.

If the Senate ratifies a treaty making Ukraine an ally and undertaking an obligation by the United States to it, that is one thing. That hasn’t happened. We are not a dictatorship where an alliance may simply be announced without the people having a voice in it. If you want Ukraine to be an ally, and therefore make it possible to betray them by not undertaking our obligations to it, bring up a treaty before the Senate and have the senators vote on it. An alliance involves risks and benefits, and those need to be fully debated. You can’t just announce an alliance exists; you have to vote on it. Until then, we have no obligation to Ukraine, and therefore cannot betray it.

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GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member

The Spy War in Europe​






Russia’s Top Secret Unit 29155 is Attacking America​



 
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GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
Well, you have to credit bravery to Ukraine’s Martial Law Administrator and Comedian-in-Chief Volodomyr Zelenskyy (two-y’s, never forget). He has declared a comedic war of words on our Nation’s top Mean Tweeter and the verbose Leader of the Free World, Donald Trump. The Wall Street Journal ran the story yesterday below the headline, “Trump Calls Zelensky Dictator in Escalating Row Over Ukraine Peace Talks.” I don’t want to fight about it, but “row” is a European term for “fracas.” Just saying.

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The fued began when Zelenskyy accused President Trump of being a Russian disinformer. So Trump predictably escalated to 11, branding Ukraine’s unconstitutional president an incompetent dictator. “He refuses to have Elections, is very low in Ukrainian Polls, and the only thing he was good at was playing Biden ‘like a fiddle,’” Trump posted to Truth Social yesterday. “A Dictator without Elections, Zelensky better move fast or he is not going to have a Country left.”

The virtue-signaling world lost its mind.

Disgusting octogenarian Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) clutched at his pearls and declared it was “disgusting to see an American president turn against one of our friends and openly side with a thug like Vladimir Putin.”

Later, at an investor conference in Miami, Trump doubled down. “I love Ukraine, but Zelensky has done a terrible job,” the President said. “His country is shattered.” I hesitate to make predictions in these unpredictable times, but I’m going out on a limb and predicting Zelenskyy’s days as … well, whatever he is, are numbered.

The WSJ article then descended into predictable complaints about how Zelenskyy and the European countries have been “excluded” from negotiations with Russia. I do not understand these complaints. What on Earth is stopping them from picking up the phone and calling Putin themselves? They are literally on the same continent. Zelensky is right next door. Just go to Moscow, for Peter the Great’s sake.

Seriously, why are they whining so bitterly about Trump not “including” them, like flabby children sulking on the sidelines after getting passed over for the cool kids’ team? Poor babies, they weren’t invited? These people are supposedly leaders of important countries. They have diplomatic staff. They have embassies. They have armies. Their complaints reek of childlike dependency, tantrums, and weakness. Low-T.



 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
Seriously, why are they whining so bitterly about Trump not “including” them, like flabby children sulking on the sidelines after getting passed over for the cool kids’ team? Poor babies, they weren’t invited? These people are supposedly leaders of important countries. They have diplomatic staff. They have embassies. They have armies. Their complaints reek of childlike dependency, tantrums, and weakness. Low-T.
???? Since when does anyone broker a peace deal between two warring parties - and one of the two isn't invited?
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member



10 Facts About Ukraine/NATO:

1. Russia is absolutely in the wrong for invading Ukraine. Nothing Ukraine did excuses or justifies Russia’s actions.

2. Ukraine is not going to be able to win the war, if the definition of the winning the war is recovering all the conquered Ukrainian territory. A continued stalemate will result in many thousands of additional deaths.

3. There is much more going on in this conflict than in the portrait painted by the media and establishment. It involves history, ethnicity, and other factors we westerners – including me, who’s actually trained Ukrainian soldiers several times on Ukrainian soil – do not and cannot understand.

4. Ukraine is an unbelievably corrupt country and the idea that no substantial portion of our aid money has been stolen is ridiculous.

5. The American people are by and large tired of subsidizing Ukraine’s end of this war. They are absolutely against American forces being involved.

6. China is a substantially greater threat to the United States than Russia in the macro. However, this war unacceptably raises the potential for US-Russian conflict. Do not imagine that this cannot spin completely out of control.

7. The Europeans should be taking the lead in supporting Ukraine and should be taking the lead in defending Europe.

8. The campaign to insult critics of past Ukraine policy by calling them Putin‘s puppets, etc, is a lie and is going to result in enmity towards the idea of helping the Ukrainians. You cannot insult Americans into obedience. You cannot fail to address their legitimate concerns and expect them to agree with you.

9. Some of our NATO allies are participating in internal repression, including suppression of free speech and the right to organize and participate in elections via non-establishment parties. This dangerously undercuts the moral argument in favor of NATO.

10. It is in America’s interest at this war ends. It is in our interest to draw Russia away from China and closer to the West. It is not in our interest to have a war going on where our proxy is fighting with a nuclear-armed enemy, regardless of how moral the cause of Ukraine is. The only way this is going to happen is if the United States takes the lead and forces Ukraine to make painful concessions in order to end this dangerous bloodbath. Ukraine is not worth a nuclear confrontation with Russia.
 

Ken King

A little rusty but not crusty
PREMO Member
???? Since when does anyone broker a peace deal between two warring parties - and one of the two isn't invited?
It is the first step where you try to get a sense of what each party is looking for. These would be unilateral and once the positions are clearly defined then, and only then, can a compromise begin to be developed.
 

stgislander

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
It is the first step where you try to get a sense of what each party is looking for. These would be unilateral and once the positions are clearly defined then, and only then, can a compromise begin to be developed.
Of the three meeting topics in SA, the Ukraine War was #3. The US is also trying to fix its relationship with Russia.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member







UKRAINE: Claims that Zelensky has an approval rate of 57% are from the Kyiv International Institute of Sociology which received USAID funding for its polling. It is run by a VERY patriotic Ukrainian named Anton Hrushetskyi. It is unlikely the polling is credible. The US intel community estimates support at around 4% which is the number Trump has been citing. Don't bet against Trump.





US Intelligence estimates public support for Zelensky and his policies at around 4% among Ukrainians as noted by President Trump. Mainstream media in the US is citing recent polling by Kyiv International Institute of Sociology that Zelensky approval rating is 57%. The only problem is that KIIS was funded by USAID and operates under the watchful eye of the Ukrainian government.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
Officials on both sides of the Atlantic later admitted that Ukraine in NATO really was Putin's issue. U.S. Director of National Intelligence Avril Haines told Congress in May 2023 that Russia's "immediate ambitions" were "ensuring that Ukraine will never become a NATO ally." NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg told the European Parliament in September 2023 that Putin had sent him a document asking for "no more NATO enlargement" as "a pre-condition for not invade [sic] Ukraine" a few months before the war.

NATO leaders have argued that closing the open door would infringe on Ukraine's sovereign right to "choose its own destiny." But an alliance is a two-way street. Every NATO member is committed to defending every other NATO member, which is why accepting new members requires a unanimous vote within the alliance. Committing French or American troops to defend Ukraine was never a Ukrainian decision alone.


After three years of war, Ukraine is less independent than it ever had been. Russia has not only conquered but also formally annexed large chunks of Ukrainian land. Ukraine is now dependent on foreign aid just to keep the state running, not to mention an estimated $486 billion in future reconstruction costs. Although the U.S. and European countries are planning to provide Ukraine with a "security guarantee" after the war, it would come in the form of foreign peacekeeping troops rather than NATO membership on equal terms.

The war has not really been a victory for Russia, either. The possibility of having a friendly, docile Ukraine on Russia's borders is gone for good. With NATO countries' help, Ukraine has bombed inside Russia (including today) and even captured Russian territory. Putin's warnings became a self-fulfilling prophecy. Across the region, Finland and Sweden have both joined NATO in response to the war.

Of course, the greatest cost comes in the scores of Ukrainians and Russians who were killed or permanently maimed. Casualty rates are a state secret in both countries, but independent estimates show that around 100,000 Ukrainians and 150,000 Russians had been killed by the end of November 2024. Every one of those deaths was a tragedy and a waste.

Putting Ukraine's future NATO membership on the table might not have been enough to avert war. Russia's demands on NATO and Ukraine may have proven impossible to satisfy in the end. But refusing to even discuss the central issue—essentially giving up before even trying—guaranteed that the war would break out. The fact that the United States did not even want Ukraine in NATO makes this stubbornness all the more wasteful.



 
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