This_person
Well-Known Member
Sure, and that's true of any employer of size, to be sure.
But, even showing up is more than waiting for a handout.
Universal Basic Income
- Thread starter GURPS
- Start date
Sure, and that's true of any employer of size, to be sure.
But, even showing up is more than waiting for a handout.
This_person
Well-Known Member
So, you want to fund research, or become a publisher of the arts, or (and I think this exists) sell fish? All of those things are possible today.
When I say like cattle, what I mean is that it is not ok to pay people for absolutely nothing. I am all for assisting the physically and mentally infirmed - or, rather, assisting their families take care of them. What I am not in favor of is providing the able-bodied an income to go surfing or watch The View or listen to Mark Levin.
:shrug:
When you provide housing, clothing, and food (symbolically through providing a "basic" income) to all, you are treating them like cattle. You are simply fattening them up for the slaughter (their consumerism).
In the end, some people will work and earn more, meaning that they will live in nicer houses, drive nicer cars, eat and vacation at nicer places, etc. Ghetto slums will cost proportionally more than they do now, by the "basic" income amount, and we will be exactly where we are today in terms of a socio-economic structure of people; everything will just cost more for no apparent reason.
I wonder, will a UBI considered taxable income by the gummint?
This_person
Well-Known Member
Curious. Since we tax unemployment, SS, etc., I'm guessing yes.
It would be easier to simply build homes, get uniforms, and provide daily feeding to the masses that choose it.
:shrug:
Die ...
... quiet robbing me to pay someone to sit around and do nothing all day
This_person
Well-Known Member
I'm not ready to say "die", personally. But, when I look at this, it's kind of hard to say, "there are no jobs, and you simply can't be productive".
Restitution
New Member
Question to Larry....
Will this UBI be given to EVERY citizen? The working, the non-working, the millionaires?
If not... how do you justify the inequality?
If so.... how does that change anything at all??
Will this UBI be given to EVERY citizen? The working, the non-working, the millionaires?
If not... how do you justify the inequality?
If so.... how does that change anything at all??
But the thing about UBI is that everyone gets it. Not just those below some arbitrary poverty line. (I'm going on an assumption that adults 18-years and older would qualify.) It is ultimately fair.
I also have to guess that with UBI, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and all other govt entitlements would go away.
I understand it to mean EVERYONE get it... you, me, the homeless guy in the shelter, and Warren Buffet.
Restitution
New Member
Why would they go away?
And if they do... does this mean that these deductions from my paycheck will go away too? Oh yeah.... and will I be refunded every penny I put into it since I started working since I will no longer receive it?
After all... there are those that will get this UBI who haven't put one red cent into any of these programs yet reap the benefits of them.
If those programs continue, then the whole premise of UBI is wrong. I understand the premise to be that EVERYONE gets X amount of dollars every month to survive from the govt. At that point, the govt says do with it want you will but that's all you get from us.
For a population the size of the USA, a program like UBI may be unworkable. Especially if Larry is correct and that the population outgrows the number of jobs available. That's why I want to see a smaller country try it and see how it works for them.
Restitution
New Member
I understand the premise as well BUT....
If we go to a UBI system then, I want ALL of the money I contributed over the last 30 years to be returned to me in full! Period! As well as all others who contributed. Either that OR the UBI be increased to compensate for those lost contributions.
After all and like I said before.... there are those who will be getting the UBI that have not contributed one penny!
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Is it? You and I do the same job, same credentials, make the same wage, you do most of the work, I spend all day on the forums, you don't complain nor does our boss because we get along, work gets done.
What if you could make double the wage if everyone who wasn't necessary didn't show up?
Restitution
New Member
When was the last time you ever heard of a business cutting unnecessary personnel and then adding their wages to those who remained?
Larry Gude
Strung Out
When was the last time you ever heard of a business cutting unnecessary personnel and then adding their wages to those who remained?
I could care less about your masochism. Please find another obsession. I'm not interested.
Very un-realistic in the private sector....Govy/Unions maybe......
Actually it happens in certain parts of private sector.
Deadwood gets pink slip, Division Chief gets bonus.
This_person
Well-Known Member
If everyone paid the same tax rate on all income, with the same exemptions (not "means-tested" levels of exemption), then I would agree with you.
But, we don't do that. We say a portion of some people's money should stay with them, and that same portion should not stay with others. We say that you can exempt some things if you are at one income level, but you can't if you're at a different income level.
That makes it inherently unfair.
It is a wealth redistribution effort. In the end, it has no chance of changing the living style of a any socio-economic class of citizen except the wealthy, by taking more of their income. It will make cheap #### more expensive (for the exact same cheap ####), and richer people will pay extra for other people to pay more for the same cheap ####.
This_person
Well-Known Member
The better comparison is if I work, and you don't even come to work, but I have to give you half of my income so you can stay home and play on the forums. Both of us showing up is inequity, but there's still something.
This_person
Well-Known Member
That's what we're talking about. His point is that a portion (he says maybe 20%) of government workers are unnecessary. His comparison is that they are just getting a paycheck for existing, and therefore it is already comparable to UBI.