UPDATE: Dad Who Put Baby In Microwave.

[Larry Gude]

Which...

One thing to note: if his lawyer does not do a complete job defending this bastard he could have grounds for appeal. So a court appointed lawyer would have to defend his client to the best of his abilities to ensure the SOB does not tie up the courts. And if they could not get this guy any legal representation the case could get thrown out. Sort of a "damned if you do, damned if you don't".

...is why we need judges and lawyers and politicians, who are most all lawyers, to make changes that serve justice, that do no harm, rather than laws that simply make more room at the trough and alienate we, the people, from our own systems.

Alan Dershowitz went on a PR blitz after helping get OJ off. He raised hell that it wasn't his and Cochran's and F'lea's and that other guys fault. He argued it was the prosecution that did a poor job. Well, simple enough, Alan. If you care about the law and justice, how, exactly, did they do such a poor job and how, exactly, could (should) the law be changed to serve justice rather than lawyers?

I asked this back then and I ask the same thing now. He hasn't got back to me although, of late, he is on a crusade against anti American elitism on campi across the nation which is where one of the roots of this evil lies.

 

[vraiblonde]

Alan Dershowitz went on a PR blitz after helping get OJ off. He raised hell that it wasn't his and Cochran's and F'lea's and that other guys fault. He argued it was the prosecution that did a poor job. Well, simple enough, Alan. If you care about the law and justice, how, exactly, did they do such a poor job and how, exactly, could (should) the law be changed to serve justice rather than lawyers?

Exactly.

And my point was that there are some people who choose, as a profession, to get guilty criminals off so that they can continue to prey on society. There are many avenues of law that those interested can pursue. But they choose criminal defense because that's what they want to do - defend criminals and hopefully get them found not guilty or at least have the case thrown out.

It's all about the win for these people, not about justice.

 

[theArtistFormerlyKnownAs]

Exactly.

And my point was that there are some people who choose, as a profession, to get guilty criminals off so that they can continue to prey on society. There are many avenues of law that those interested can pursue. But they choose criminal defense because that's what they want to do - defend criminals and hopefully get them found not guilty or at least have the case thrown out.

It's all about the win for these people, not about justice.

Someone's gotta do it :shrug:

If not then our legal system will be out of balance.

We need defense attorneys and I will not bash them for doing their job :shrug: If they are doing something that is illegal, ok, sure...they are in the wrong...but I personally will not bash someone for legally putting food on their table in the way they chose to.

 

[vegmom]

Everyone is entitled to legal counsul under our laws. That is to protect those who may be falsely accused. Innocent until proven guilty is the cornerstone of our legal system. Sucks when it comes to prosecuting actual bad guys, but we have the world's fairest judicial system thanks to it. If this idget did not have a competent lawyer he could get appeals out the wazoo. So by doing his job this lawyer is ensuring the idget be getting something up the wazoo for years to come. I'm sure his fellow inmates will give him all the love and attention he deserves.

 

[Larry Gude]

Pc...

Someone's gotta do it :shrug:

If not then our legal system will be out of balance.

We need defense attorneys and I will not bash them for doing their job :shrug: If they are doing something that is illegal, ok, sure...they are in the wrong...but I personally will not bash someone for legally putting food on their table in the way they chose to.

...you cite a good word; balance. So, the argument is 'what is balance?'. I'd argue that when these two people won't have a jury that knows what louts they are, then, we are out of balance. I don't fault a lawyer for doing all that is within the law; I fault the law. Make this admissible and then I'm good with the lawyer trying...and being denied to exclude it. Then let the jury judge who these people are; not with blinders imposed that results in an incomplete view of who they are.

 

[theArtistFormerlyKnownAs]

...you cite a good word; balance. So, the argument is 'what is balance?'. I'd argue that when these two people won't have a jury that knows what louts they are, then, we are out of balance. I don't fault a lawyer for doing all that is within the law; I fault the law. Make this admissible and then I'm good with the lawyer trying...and being denied to exclude it. Then let the jury judge who these people are; not with blinders imposed that results in an incomplete view of who they are.

this just crossed my mind...

why wouldn't the defense lawyer WANT the incident (hummer in the interogation room) included in the case? If the defense is going for the insanity plea...that there is a good start. Mr. Sicko doesn't know boundaries.

 

[Larry Gude]

No...

Innocent until proven guilty is the cornerstone of our legal system.

...it's not. A right to a fair trial is a cornerstone. There is no presumption of innocence when the cops slap on the cuffs and you get indicted. You can't presume someone to be innocent until after the trial or there is no basis to arrest them or prosecute them in the first place. The vast majority of people who are not convicted are not also innocent. That's where our system says 'you're not guilty of the charges under the law.' That's why the law needs some help. From lawyers.

Innocence until proven guilty is misunderstood. Anyone of sound mind can judge for themselves that two people who are interested in sex as the cop shop while they are being booked for child abuse don't exactly have their priorities, or values, in good, socially acceptable order.

 

[vraiblonde]

this just crossed my mind...

why wouldn't the defense lawyer WANT the incident (hummer in the interogation room) included in the case? If the defense is going for the insanity plea...that there is a good start. Mr. Sicko doesn't know boundaries.

That's an excellent point.

 

[Larry Gude]

That's besides the...

this just crossed my mind...

why wouldn't the defense lawyer WANT the incident (hummer in the interogation room) included in the case? If the defense is going for the insanity plea...that there is a good start. Mr. Sicko doesn't know boundaries.

...point, don't you think? If he, the lawyer, is exercising some sort of judgement as to how a jury will view this, that's all the indictment I need to know, as a matter of fact, that lawyers, and only lawyers, can fix our justice system. We need a system that lays the facts out as they are, not some manufactured story, and then let the jury decide. It's one thing to exclude speeding tickets to this thing as irrelevant. It is another to exclude what they did while they were being booked for abusing their child.

You said it best; balance.

 

[vegmom]

this just crossed my mind...

why wouldn't the defense lawyer WANT the incident (hummer in the interogation room) included in the case? If the defense is going for the insanity plea...that there is a good start. Mr. Sicko doesn't know boundaries.

Probably because it makes the pair of them appear as sociopaths - know what they are doing is wrong but not caring. Serials killers are mostly sociopaths. There are many types of psychosis, and not all of them make the person incapable of telling right from wrong.

 

[Larry Gude]

It's an...

That's an excellent point.

...excellent example of evidence that lawyers, obviously, work the system to get the guilty off. It's not up to that lawyer to pass judgement on their sanity; it's his job only on their defense as it regards whether or not they are guilty as charged.

The rest should be up to the jury.

 

[signora]

Everyone is entitled to legal counsul under our laws. That is to protect those who may be falsely accused. Innocent until proven guilty is the cornerstone of our legal system. Sucks when it comes to prosecuting actual bad guys, but we have the world's fairest judicial system thanks to it. If this idget did not have a competent lawyer he could get appeals out the wazoo. So by doing his job this lawyer is ensuring the idget be getting something up the wazoo for years to come. I'm sure his fellow inmates will give him all the love and attention he deserves.

True.
Too many people try to plead insanity because they think they can get off for crimes they committed, but a majority do not succeed. It's possible the guy may have been on drugs where it caused him to do this inhumanly act to his child, but it does not justify what he did and he should get life in prison w/o parole. Even though his wife may have not been involved in what he id, I think she is crazy to actually to stand by a man who did this to their child. It only shows how heartless, pathetic and desperate she really is.

I just don't get how a person can bring a child into this world only to harm them like this. There are so many childless couples out there who try to have children and then you read stories like this and thing what did that poor innocent child do to them that they felt deserved this type of abuse. Luckily the baby did survive and hopefully getting the love and care they deserve with the family they were placed with. It's just sad to think years from now she will think this is what my own Dad did to me and my Mom actually stood by him.

 

[godsbutterfly]

He can try to claim temporary insanity all he wants to but when he kept moving that baby from place to place before finally ending up with the child in the microwave that doesn't sound like a random act of desperate insanity. It sounds more calculated and cruel than anything else. Lowlife piece of scum and the equally disgusting "mother" of this baby both deserve to have the same thing done to them that was done to this poor helpless baby.

 

[cheleandchad]

This absolutely disgusts me. I am a mother of a 2 yr old and this mother is standing by this man who did this awful thing to her child. This world is full of sick people and things like this keep happening to these poor helpless children everyday, everywhere!! I would go to prison for what I would do if ANYONE harmed my child. This man deserves cruel and unusual punishment for what he did.