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[AndyMarquisLIVE]

OBAMA BASHING THREAD ​

Fact checking before I start criticizing Obama on Affirmative Action.

Oh, lookie

Shortly after Hillary Rodham Clinton suspended her presidential campaign and urged her supporters — especially women — to embrace Barack Obama's White House bid, the Democratic Party's presumptive nominee gave them another reason to rally to his side.

In response to a question I put to him a day earlier, Obama answered that he opposes efforts to pass constitutional amendments this year in Arizona, Colorado and Nebraska to ban affirmative action in state contracting and college admissions.

"Sen. Obama believes in a country in which opportunity is available to all Americans, regardless of their race, gender or economic status. That's why he opposes these ballot initiatives, which would roll back opportunity for millions of Americans and cripple efforts to break down historic barriers to the progress of qualified women and minorities," Candice Tolliver, an Obama campaign spokesperson, told me.

White women and blacks are the biggest beneficiaries of affirmative action programs

Yep, Obama supports affirmative action.

That's "change" we can believe in

If a Black man can become President, why do we still need Affirmative Action?

Furthermore, what's this "change" he speaks of? All I see is more of the same, divisive programs aimed at intentionally limiting the numbers of White American men who can get a leg up on this bad economy based solely on ethic, performance and effort.

Nice, Obama, real nice.

 

[chernmax]

.................................Andy TY

 

[SamSpade]

My sentiment towards affirmative action is like this.

Try to imagine us racing to the moon. We declared we'd do it before the decade was out - the 60's. Imagine for a moment that none of that ever came to fruition. For whatever reason, we kept pumping millions of dollars into a program that not only didn't reach its goal, it had no milestones upon which to measure its progress. You couldn't say, well, we've done THIS, which is halfway there. Nope, it had one report card - getting to the moon. And we hadn't done it yet.

If we hadn't reached it by 2008 - wouldn't you say, it's really time to give it up?

That's kind of the timeline for affirmative action. It was enacted around the same time as the space program, but it has a vague, generic goal of racial equality but no reasonable means of demonstrating reaching its goal - only anecdotal cases and occasional references to racial progress over the decades which may or may not be attributable to affirmative action. People will insist that it is still necessary, because "equality" hasn't been reached. Well, by what criteria? By most measures, its work is completed. If you establish a program such as affirmative action - which by definition is unfair in order to rectify past injustice - you need to have some means to measure its effectiveness, and a discernible goal.

It doesn't do that. If it hasn't done anything in 45 years, it's not going to. If it has reached it, it may be high time to phase it out - or at the very least, shift its attention to other groups that need it.

 

[AndyMarquisLIVE]

My sentiment towards affirmative action is like this.

Try to imagine us racing to the moon. We declared we'd do it before the decade was out - the 60's. Imagine for a moment that none of that ever came to fruition. For whatever reason, we kept pumping millions of dollars into a program that not only didn't reach its goal, it had no milestones upon which to measure its progress. You couldn't say, well, we've done THIS, which is halfway there. Nope, it had one report card - getting to the moon. And we hadn't done it yet.

If we hadn't reached it by 2008 - wouldn't you say, it's really time to give it up?

That's kind of the timeline for affirmative action. It was enacted around the same time as the space program, but it has a vague, generic goal of racial equality but no reasonable means of demonstrating reaching its goal - only anecdotal cases and occasional references to racial progress over the decades which may or may not be attributable to affirmative action. People will insist that it is still necessary, because "equality" hasn't been reached. Well, by what criteria? By most measures, its work is completed. If you establish a program such as affirmative action - which by definition is unfair in order to rectify past injustice - you need to have some means to measure its effectiveness, and a discernible goal.

It doesn't do that. If it hasn't done anything in 45 years, it's not going to. If it has reached it, it may be high time to phase it out - or at the very least, shift its attention to other groups that need it.

Affirmative Action has reached it's goal. Unless the unthinkable happens and Mikey gets his wish, we are going to have our first Black President inaugurated on Janurary 20, 2009. :shrug:

What more is there? The Roadmap to Equality is complete. Black men are competitive in baseball. Black men are capable of getting degrees and becoming world-renounced doctors and lawyers. Hell, a black man's even won a NASCAR race. And now, this nation is giong to have it's first black President.

As far as women, they have also achieved equality in the public's eye. They too are becoming doctors and lawyers. Hillary Clinton finished 2nd in the record breaking Democratic Primaries of 2008. Women are competitive in golf, and in other sports which have paved the way for an equal pass. There have been many women pioneers from Rosa Parks to Hillary Clinton to Danica Patrick.

The Road to Equality has been achieved. :shrug:

I see no more reason to have Affirmative Action. :shrug:

 

[AndyMarquisLIVE]

All the black people who do not think equality exists should go to South Africa or Sudan.

Compared to 60 years ago, I'd say they're doing alright.

 

[AndyMarquisLIVE]

Oh, and women?

I think there are only two things the American woman has not achieved. Becoming POTUS and winning a NASCAR Grand National Cup race.

Both will happen in my lifetime, and one of these will happen within the next 5 years.

 

[Lenny]

And there you have it....

Oh, and women?

I think there are only two things the American woman has not achieved. Becoming POTUS and winning a NASCAR Grand National Cup race.

Both will happen in my lifetime, and one of these will happen within the next 5 years.

...the sound of one hand clapping.

 

[This_person]

Affirmative Action has reached it's goal, we are going to have our first Black President inaugurated on Janurary 20, 2009. :shrug:

What more is there? The Roadmap to Equality is complete. Black men are competitive in baseball. Black men are capable of getting degrees and becoming world-renounced doctors and lawyers. Hell, a black man's even won a NASCAR race. And now, this nation is giong to have it's first black President.

I see no more reason to have Affirmative Action. :shrug:

Who's the black person running against the white guy and the bi-racial guy that's going to beat them both?

Affirmative Action was racist against the races it purported to "protect" from the very beginning. Continuing the programs continues the stereotype that people need extra help to be equal - that they can't compete on their own. It's very nature proves the exact opposite of what it tries to do. It was dumb from the beginning, and is racist and discriminatory now.

 

[AndyMarquisLIVE]

Who's the black person running against the white guy and the bi-racial guy that's going to beat them both?

Obama identifies himself as black all the time. :shrug:

 

[This_person]

Obama identifies himself as black all the time. :shrug:

But............ he's not. :shrug:

He identifies himself as being worthy of being president, too. It doesn't make it true.

 

[SamSpade]

Who's the black person running against the white guy and the bi-racial guy that's going to beat them both?

Affirmative Action was racist against the races it purported to "protect" from the very beginning. Continuing the programs continues the stereotype that people need extra help to be equal - that they can't compete on their own. It's very nature proves the exact opposite of what it tries to do. It was dumb from the beginning, and is racist and discriminatory now.

There's a criticism of affirmative action in the Wikipedia by Thomas Sowell who has observed that in places where affirmative action has been removed, it's accomplished more.

 

[RadioPatrol]

There's a criticism of affirmative action in the Wikipedia by Thomas Sowell who has observed that in places where affirmative action has been removed, it's accomplished more.

Well yes, coworkers will respect a person who gets a job because the person was the best qualified, not because of the way he was born .....

the Park had an AA as Park President when I got there ... he is gone now, went to Busch Gardens, and has been replaced by a White Guy .... is Corp now being racists or is the new guy the best one for the JOB ...

 

[wintersprings]

Oh, and women?

I think there are only two things the American woman has not achieved. Becoming POTUS and winning a NASCAR Grand National Cup race.

Both will happen in my lifetime, and one of these will happen within the next 5 years.

again we have the big Andy Lie

 

[wintersprings]

If only the big Andy Lier would talk about his Democrat's and how they run DC.

Let a Democrat run the White House again...Geeeeeeeee

 

[AndyMarquisLIVE]

If only the big Andy Lier would talk about his Democrat's and how they run DC.

Let a Democrat run the White House again...Geeeeeeeee

I am overwhelmed by your intelligence and maturity

 

[Lenny]

Gosh...

I am overwhelmed by your intelligence and maturity

...it's a lot like sophomore study hall again.

 

[ImnoMensa]

But............ he's not. :shrug:

He identifies himself as being worthy of being president, too. It doesn't make it true.

Just a note here, There arent too many American Negroes in this country who dont have some white blood.

The amount varies,Obama has 50% of both but does identify with blacks.
A choice he made on his own and admits to in his book.
So, if he wants to be black, who are we to argue.

I didnt argue with Bill Clinton either when he wanted to be black. Seems he didnt really mean it though, just used it to his own advantage. Is Obama doing the same with better credentials? Probably.

 

[This_person]

Just a note here, There arent too many American Negroes in this country who dont have some white blood.

The amount varies,Obama has 50% of both but does identify with blacks.
A choice he made on his own and admits to in his book.
So, if he wants to be black, who are we to argue.

I don't know the statistics on that, but I would suggest one white ancestor six generations ago is a lot different than a white mother.

Who are we to argue? Honest people. He did admit that he chose to hide his white half in a racist monologue of one of his books. But, that would be like any non-black claiming to be black - it's dishonest. I have no problem with him being black, white, or bi-racial. I have a problem with the dishonesty, the racist thought of choosing sides. I am a product of my mother and father, not just one or the other.

Again, he can choose to claim whatever he wants, but it doesn't make it true.

I didnt argue with Bill Clinton either when he wanted to be black. Seems he didnt really mean it though, just used it to his own advantage. Is Obama doing the same with better credentials? Probably.

Good point.

 

[This_person]

There's a criticism of affirmative action in the Wikipedia by Thomas Sowell who has observed that in places where affirmative action has been removed, it's accomplished more.

Good reading, thanks!

 

[SamSpade]

The amount varies,Obama has 50% of both but does identify with blacks.

His choice and one he's clearly made on several occasions. I've never had to do that, so I can't imagine what it takes. Now Tiger Woods is the one that most confuses me. He doesn't refer to himself as black but multiracial, but major news outlets do describe him as such, even though he's half Asian and only a quarter black.

I don't get to choose, really. I have a small fraction of American Indian - my grandfather was half Indian. But it'd be idiotic for me to claim to be one.