Upping the dose in Iraq...

Larry Gude

Larry Gude

Strung Out
It is clearly going to be a rough ride in Iraq leading up to the June turnover.

The goal of those who enjoyed Saddam's power, the Sunni triangle folks in particular, is to do their best to get us sick and tired and scared and OUT ASAP so they can start the process of regaining power.

This includes the other powers that be in the region who have no interest in democracy taking hold; Al Queda, Iran, Syria, Saudi.

This is a PR campaign on their part.

So, where are you on the use of force scale?
 
T

Topper

Guest
What was the mission for invading Iraq?

If it was to fight terrorism by eliminating WMDs and to remove Saddam from power, then we have accomplished our mission.

Since the Iraqis will start taking over in June, now is a good time to start. They should go into Fallujah.

Now, we go home and our brave, homesick service men and women live.
 
T

Tina2001aniT

New Member
Topper--I couldn't disagree with you more, If we pull out now, with the nation of iraq still so unsettled than who is to say that the country doesn't return to it's pre-war state? With that being said how do you think the families of our fallen heroes will feel? As if they have died in vain. To pull out before the job is done will be spitting in the faces of our service men and women and the families of the fallen. JMO
 
willie

willie

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by Tina2001aniT
Topper--I couldn't disagree with you more, If we pull out now, with the nation of iraq still so unsettled than who is to say that the country doesn't return to it's pre-war state? With that being said how do you think the families of our fallen heroes will feel? As if they have died in vain. To pull out before the job is done will be spitting in the faces of our service men and women and the families of the fallen. JMO
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:yeahthat:
Bring the Sunni's to their knees, transfer power and get out. Those people will cause world trouble forever but that should slow them up for several years. A victory is a must. It's unthinkable to waste our troops lives by running.
 
vraiblonde

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
I agree with Tina and Willie. And I'd like to see coalition forces jack up the heat a bit so we can get this over with. Toles FINALLY had a cartoon in the Post that didn't make me want to smack him in the head. I think this says it all:

tt040430.gif
 
T

Topper

Guest
Examining the responses in this thread, I see much careful thought and some area of agreement. Most of us agree that we need to get out, but when is the question.

Some of us believe that a “victory” is possible, but what is victory? As we have accomplished our mission to eliminate the possible use of WMDs by Saddam and to remove him from power, we have a victory. A victory that would require a Jeffersonian style democracy is probably not possible in this culture at this time. In addition, this was not our rational for asking the NATO nations to join the coalition. It’s a wonderful dream to think we could do that, but the Iraqis must work this out themselves. A degree of stability, that will allow us to withdraw, may be possible, but the rest is up to them. Let us not get stuck in Iraq by changing our definition of victory.

At this time there are over 400 American service men and women dead. Does it honor them to add any more to this list? They handed us a victory. Let us not turn it into defeat by staying too long.

The consequences of force need to be carefully considered. The thoughtful use of force as a tool to accomplish a mission is very important. Could our marines have leveled Fallujah and killed every man, woman, and child in the city? Of course they could. The Sunnis are a sect of Islam. They are in every nation in the world with an Islamic population. A wise course would not allow them to make martyrs of themselves, and gain support. Do our leaders appreciate the consequences? Their actions speak.
 
vraiblonde

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
Originally posted by Topper
Some of us believe that a “victory” is possible, but what is victory?
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To me, getting rid of Saddam was just the tip of the iceberg. Now the real work begins, for us AND for the Iraqis. We need to help them get rid of the terrorists and the regime leftovers, for our own safety and for the safety of the natives, and we need to stick around long enough for them to get their governmental act together.

Iraq has been run by a dictator and his thugs for a loooong time. The folks don't know what to do at this point because this is all alien to them. Keeping a low profile so as not to attract the attention of Saddam's henchmen - that they know how to do. But run a country?

Here's your analogy: The man next door beats his wife and kids bloody on a daily basis. Finally the cops and Social Services step in and cart the man off to prison. Now what? Should they just ditch the woman and kids to fend for themselves? Or should they try and help her get a job, get her life together, help the kids with school and societal development? Plus, history tells us that if they just say, "Your problem's solved, Mom - have a great life", she'll be hooked up with the first dirtbag that comes down the pike and the whole thing starts all over again.

It's not good enough to feed people - you must teach them to fish. Since no one else wants to lend a hand, I guess we're it.
 
Ken King

Ken King

A little rusty but not crusty
PREMO Member
Originally posted by Topper
Examining the responses in this thread, I see much careful thought and some area of agreement. Most of us agree that we need to get out, but when is the question.

Some of us believe that a “victory” is possible, but what is victory? As we have accomplished our mission to eliminate the possible use of WMDs by Saddam and to remove him from power, we have a victory. A victory that would require a Jeffersonian style democracy is probably not possible in this culture at this time. In addition, this was not our rational for asking the NATO nations to join the coalition. It’s a wonderful dream to think we could do that, but the Iraqis must work this out themselves. A degree of stability, that will allow us to withdraw, may be possible, but the rest is up to them. Let us not get stuck in Iraq by changing our definition of victory.
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We should only get out when the job is done. Leaving now would not facilitate making that region or the US any safer, the latter being the objective of our going in there in the first place. Doing the job half-assed with an early withdrawal would make it susceptible once again to becoming a nation that will sponsor or carry out terrorism against us.
At this time there are over 400 American service men and women dead. Does it honor them to add any more to this list? They handed us a victory. Let us not turn it into defeat by staying too long.
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Actually the death toll is above 700 to date and to leave only to watch Iraq return to the way it was would be a disservice to those that have given the ultimate in this effort. We need to stay in place throughout the transition to the interim governing authority and probably a lot longer to assure that Iraq joins the peaceful nations of the world.
The consequences of force need to be carefully considered. The thoughtful use of force as a tool to accomplish a mission is very important. Could our marines have leveled Fallujah and killed every man, woman, and child in the city? Of course they could. The Sunnis are a sect of Islam. They are in every nation in the world with an Islamic population. A wise course would not allow them to make martyrs of themselves, and gain support. Do our leaders appreciate the consequences? Their actions speak.
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What are you talking about? Our troops are only using force when force is used upon them. There are a few thousand insurgents and loyalists that need to be dealt with or they will use the tactics that Saddam schooled them in to regain the country and continue on the course of tyranny that once ruled that nation. I don’t see this as being strictly a Sunni thing. While many Iraqis follow that religious sect not all Sunnis are like these fanatics.

You should contemplate the consequences of an early withdrawal and all that could take place by doing so. As to the Bush administrations actions I say they have been pretty close to being dead on as to what needs to be done. We need to "stand fast" and only get out when it can be reasonably assured that doing so will not jeopardize this nation and our security. Now is not the right time for such a withdrawal.
 
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