US soldier removed from Iraq for shooting at Quran

[Larry Gude]

I have a better...

Balderdash my ass Larry - in the military you ARE taught to respect the customs of whatever particular foreign country you are in. In my office, the female civilians that go to meet with the Saudis are required to cover their hair, everyone who conducts business with foreign countries are taught what they can say, what they can't, what's considered rude etc.

So what actual purpose did it serve to shoot the Quran?

...question; What purpose does it serve to have not buried this and his CO taken him to the wood shed, quiet like, instead?

He shot a BOOK. His job is to go out and BLOW THE ENEMIES HEAD OFF. Are you crazy? Are you out of your mind? Have you no perspective whatsoever?

 

[Dixie]

...question; What purpose does it serve to have not buried this and his CO taken him to the wood shed, quiet like, instead?

He shot a BOOK. His job is to go out and BLOW THE ENEMIES HEAD OFF. Are you crazy? Are you out of your mind? Have you no perspective whatsoever?

I noticed you answered my question with a question which I guess means you have no plausible explanation? Again in their eyes it is not just a book. Did you even read the article? Didn't it explain why it was handled the way it was handled?

 

[Larry Gude]

The actual...

...purpose, in my opinion, of shooting the holy book of his enemy was to dehumanize them further in his mind and to reconcile the evil that they do, the way they live as represented in that book and the threat it poses to him, his God, his fellow citizens, his comrades in arms and his country. I think when he, the enemy, is less like you in tangible ways, it makes it a little easier to blow his head off. Again and again and again. Until he is defeated and your side wins. If your leaders will let you win.

 

[Larry Gude]

That's right...

If we're going to pretend he wasnt talking about the crimes committed during the 90's you'd be right.

...and the 'crimes' of the 90's were viewed then in context of the 'crimes' by Muslims on Christians in the 80's. Which were viewed in context of the 'crimes' committed by the Christians on the Muslims on the 70's.

And so forth. It was wrong of us to choose sides. It kept Clinton in office, so, the goal was achieved.

 

[MMDad]

...purpose, in my opinion, of shooting the holy book of his enemy was to dehumanize them further in his mind and to reconcile the evil that they do, the way they live as represented in that book and the threat it poses to him, his God, his fellow citizens, his comrades in arms and his country. I think when he, the enemy, is less like you in tangible ways, it makes it a little easier to blow his head off. Again and again and again. Until he is defeated and your side wins. If your leaders will let you win.

Of course, you ignored the fact that this isn't a "christians vs. moors" conflict.

The guy in the foxhole next to this guy could be a US Marine who happens to be muslim.

Or this guy could be working hand in hand with the new Iraqi Army.

I understand that we cannot eliminate the cultural prejudice from our troops, but to condone it is far different. I don't want Marines out there hating the enemy because of the book he reads. I don't want the Marines making the world safe for christianity. I want the Marine to shoot the bad guy because he was told to.

When our troops go in country, they receive training about respecting the local customs. If he didn't know that what he did violated standing orders, it's only because he ignored the orders.

The Marine disobeyed orders. That's enough for me to see that he deserves to be disciplined.

 

[Larry Gude]

Note...

Of course, you ignored the fact that this isn't a "christians vs. moors" conflict.

The guy in the foxhole next to this guy could be a US Marine who happens to be muslim.

Or this guy could be working hand in hand with the new Iraqi Army.

I understand that we cannot eliminate the cultural prejudice from our troops, but to condone it is far different. I don't want Marines out there hating the enemy because of the book he reads. I don't want the Marines making the world safe for christianity. I want the Marine to shoot the bad guy because he was told to.

When our troops go in country, they receive training about respecting the local customs. If he didn't know that what he did violated standing orders, it's only because he ignored the orders.

The Marine disobeyed orders. That's enough for me to see that he deserves to be disciplined.

...to MMdad: This is the fourth Crusade. It is a holy war. That's why we should have never fought it. We should have never heard about someone shooting a hole in a book. This could have been handled quietly.

 

[thunderchicken]

Quran?

Now I know how to get my son home, I think you may have started something here........

 

[Larry Gude]

Then certainly...

Of course, you ignored the fact that this isn't a "christians vs. moors" conflict.

The guy in the foxhole next to this guy could be a US Marine who happens to be muslim.

Or this guy could be working hand in hand with the new Iraqi Army.

I understand that we cannot eliminate the cultural prejudice from our troops, but to condone it is far different. I don't want Marines out there hating the enemy because of the book he reads. I don't want the Marines making the world safe for christianity. I want the Marine to shoot the bad guy because he was told to.

When our troops go in country, they receive training about respecting the local customs. If he didn't know that what he did violated standing orders, it's only because he ignored the orders.

The Marine disobeyed orders. That's enough for me to see that he deserves to be disciplined.

...you'd want that Marine to appreciate the part in the book where the guy on the receiving end of the rifle is supposed to, per his book, fight the non believer in his lands, yes?

 

[MMDad]

We should have never heard about someone shooting a hole in a book. This could have been handled quietly.

Then put the blame where it belongs: on the Marine who left evidence laying around.

The Quran, with 14 bullet holes and graffiti marked on its paged, was found on May 11 by Iraqis near a former base outside the town of Radwaniyah, west of Baghdad.

No Koran found = no evidence = no story.

 

[Larry Gude]

Ok...

Then put the blame where it belongs: on the Marine who left evidence laying around.



No Koran found = no evidence = no story.

...a point we might agree on.

 

[MMDad]

...you'd want that Marine to appreciate the part in the book where the guy on the receiving end of the rifle is supposed to, per his book, fight the non believer in his lands, yes?

No. I don't want the Marine to ponder the socio-political ramifications of his next shot. The question and answer should be:

Q: "Private, why did you shoot that Iraqi?!?"

A: "Sir, because the Gunnery Sergeant told me to, Sir!"

Ooorah! Semper Fi!

 

[MMDad]

...a point we might agree on.

I think we can also agree that excessive appeasement of the offended Iraqi's is uncalled for.

 

[bcp]

very sad if you think of it.
a soldier, fighting to maintain the right to put a Crucifix in a bottle of piss in this country, gets repremanded for shooting a quaran in iraq.

 

[Dixie]

I think we can also agree that excessive appeasement of the offended Iraqi's is uncalled for.

So Bush called Iraq's Prime Minister to apologize for this incident promising the courts would punish the offender. Excessive appeasement or the right thing to do?

 

[Dixie]

...question; What purpose does it serve to have not buried this and his CO taken him to the wood shed, quiet like, instead?

He shot a BOOK. His job is to go out and BLOW THE ENEMIES HEAD OFF. Are you crazy? Are you out of your mind? Have you no perspective whatsoever?

There's my perspective Larry - the military is trained on the mindset of a country, then NOT to do things like shoot a country's holy book for this very reason:

3 dead as Quran shooting protest turns violent
One NATO soldier and two Afghan civilians were killed Thursday when protests in Afghanistan over the shooting of a Quran by a U.S. soldier turned violent, officials said.
3 dead at Quran shooting protest - Afghanistan - MSNBC.com

 

[Lugnut]

So what actual purpose did it serve to shoot the Quran?

Perhaps you didn't read the article. It served as a target so a sniper could zero his rifle. Paper is OFTEN used for this.

There's my perspective Larry - the military is trained on the mindset of a country, then NOT to do things like shoot a country's holy book for this very reason:

3 dead as Quran shooting protest turns violent
One NATO soldier and two Afghan civilians were killed Thursday when protests in Afghanistan over the shooting of a Quran by a U.S. soldier turned violent, officials said.
3 dead at Quran shooting protest - Afghanistan - MSNBC.com

People who think like you are in charge of prosecuting the war right now. No clear objectives or goals, concern about how the ENEMY "feels", no patriotic sentiment.

 

[chernmax]

Soldier was being a dumbass and should have known better! In retrospect, I'm not happy either seeing muslims burn our nations flag which I strongly stand by and believe in.

SOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, fukem!!!

 

[MMDad]

So Bush called Iraq's Prime Minister to apologize for this incident promising the courts would punish the offender. Excessive appeasement or the right thing to do?

If the Iraqi PM had taken it gracefully, it may have been the right thing to do. Instead he gloated over it.

Since Bush should have expected the Iraqi PM to gloat, yet he apologized anyway, I'd call that excessive appeasement.

 

[Dixie]

Perhaps you didn't read the article. It served as a target so a sniper could zero his rifle. Paper is OFTEN used for this.





People who think like you are in charge of prosecuting the war right now. No clear objectives or goals, concern about how the ENEMY "feels", no patriotic sentiment.

No my point was that American forces are trained to respect the customs of other countries and sh*t happens when you don't. That the very reason I posted this new article. And as far as having no patriotic sentiment - please define.

 

[Larry Gude]

Wouldn't...

There's my perspective Larry - the military is trained on the mindset of a country, then NOT to do things like shoot a country's holy book for this very reason:

3 dead as Quran shooting protest turns violent
One NATO soldier and two Afghan civilians were killed Thursday when protests in Afghanistan over the shooting of a Quran by a U.S. soldier turned violent, officials said.
3 dead at Quran shooting protest - Afghanistan - MSNBC.com

...it be fascinating if Americans took to the streets after the shooting of the book and staged mass celebrations and burned the book in effigy and expressed great joy about the whole book shooting thing?