USS Gabriel Giffords

[MMDad]

Does the title of this thread not make my point?

No.

It seems that you are saying that any recognition is trivial so we should just skip all of it. I disagree.

If your point was that we should not be recognizing people just because they got shot I would agree. Or not naming ships for people while they are still living and still have a chance to disgrace themselves. But to say that we should never name ships after a person no matter what? Nope.

 

[Larry Gude]

No.

It seems that you are saying that any recognition is trivial so we should just skip all of it. I disagree.

If your point was that we should not be recognizing people just because they got shot I would agree. Or not naming ships for people while they are still living and still have a chance to disgrace themselves. But to say that we should never name ships after a person no matter what? Nope.

The title of the thread illustrates my point exactly and I don't know how to explain it any better than that. It becomes a politicization and THAT is my problem with it.

 

[MMDad]

The title of the thread illustrates my point exactly and I don't know how to explain it any better than that. It becomes a politicization and THAT is my problem with it.

You seem to be arguing two completely different points. You said nobody. Not even presidents or MOH winners. I disagree with you on that.

Congress has oversight of the military. They happen to be politicians. As soon as you figure out how to remove politics from politicians let me know. Until then, you just better get used to it.

 

[Larry Gude]

You seem to be arguing two completely different points. You said nobody. Not even presidents or MOH winners. I disagree with you on that.

Congress has oversight of the military. They happen to be politicians. As soon as you figure out how to remove politics from politicians let me know. Until then, you just better get used to it.

Seeings how we can't remove the politicians, remove the problem; don't name warships for people. Period.

USS Arizona


Imagine if it was the USS Fatty Arbuckle or the USS Alvin York? or the Washington or Lincoln? Or the Gabby?

 

[vraiblonde]

USS Arizona


Imagine if it was the USS Fatty Arbuckle or the USS Alvin York? or the Washington or Lincoln? Or the Gabby?

It...wouldn't have been bombed at Pearl Harbor?

 

[Larry Gude]

It...wouldn't have been bombed at Pearl Harbor?

No. I was more thinking of the reverence we have for the name as is and how it wouldn't be quite the same if if was some person.

"Remember the Washington!" I guess you disagree?

 

[vraiblonde]

No. I was more thinking of the reverence we have for the name as is and how it wouldn't be quite the same if if was some person.

"Remember the Washington!" I guess you disagree?

Are you saying that if the USS Reagan were bombed, people wouldn't care as much? Or they would care more? Or conservatives would care very much, and liberals would only care if the Carter got bombed?

I don't understand where you're going with this.

 

[Larry Gude]

Are you saying that if the USS Reagan were bombed, people wouldn't care as much? Or they would care more? Or conservatives would care very much, and liberals would only care if the Carter got bombed?

I don't understand where you're going with this.

In my view, the idea of naming a US warship after whomever, in this case, Giffords, illustrates how silly the practice can readily become which, in turn, in my view, tarnishes the whole idea even if there is folks I think 'worthy' of it. I mean, if Giffords, why not the USS Maxine Waters? The USS Obama? So, to me, and I guess at least in part because I grew up knowing names like the Maine and Arizona and Wasp and Hornet and Yorktown, the Constitution, Constellation, etc, etc, that I just don't like US warships named after people and I think the practice leads, inevitably, to someone that just makes the whole thing silly.

"Oh, Henry, some bastards ran a torpedo up the stern of the Barney Frank and it's lisping severely to port!!! Or is it starboard???"

:shrug:

 

[Bann]

In my view, the idea of naming a US warship after whomever, in this case, Giffords, illustrates how silly the practice can readily become which, in turn, in my view, tarnishes the whole idea even if there is folks I think 'worthy' of it. I mean, if Giffords, why not the USS Maxine Waters?

(I do agree with you!)

"Oh, Henry, some bastards ran a torpedo up the stern of the Barney Frank and it's lisping severely to port!!! Or is it starboard???"

 

[Larry Gude]

(I do agree with you!)

One persons Ronald Reagan is anthers Maxine, right? So, it becomes this...thing. Yet another politicized exercise in self aggrandizement by party. I didn't like it when National was named after Reagan nor BWI after Marshall. I think it dumb and totally inappropriate in a nation such as ours where the ideas, not the people, are supposed to be cherished.

 

[vraiblonde]

In my view, the idea of naming a US warship after whomever, in this case, Giffords, illustrates how silly the practice can readily become which, in turn, in my view, tarnishes the whole idea even if there is folks I think 'worthy' of it. I mean, if Giffords, why not the USS Maxine Waters? The USS Obama? So, to me, and I guess at least in part because I grew up knowing names like the Maine and Arizona and Wasp and Hornet and Yorktown, the Constitution, Constellation, etc, etc, that I just don't like US warships named after people and I think the practice leads, inevitably, to someone that just makes the whole thing silly.

"Oh, Henry, some bastards ran a torpedo up the stern of the Barney Frank and it's lisping severely to port!!! Or is it starboard???"

:shrug:

The USS Caitlyn.

Okay, I see. But just because you don't think someone is worthy of having a ship named after them doesn't mean nobody does. I remember when they christened the Carter and people were all up in arms because they disliked Jimmeh. The fact remains, however, that not only was he a US President, but he was also a sub commander, so the honor was appropriate. Yes, it *could* become silly, but so can anything. We can't just stop life because there are so many silly people out there and, unfortunately, they are taking over the reins.

And you know the Giffords is a fake story, right? Just parody, didn't really happen.

 

[Larry Gude]

The USS Caitlyn.

Okay, I see. But just because you don't think someone is worthy of having a ship named after them doesn't mean nobody does.

I totally agree with that statement and that is my point; US warships getting named for partisan reasons. The only name that, objectively, could ever be above a partisan argument is Washington. So, why do it at all? Why not just keep it the way it was?

And fake or not, you can see someone making a case for her, yes? Or Waters or Dubbya or Obama or the USS Bill Clinton... "She's gonna bloooowwww Cahptin! She cahnt take anymohr!" So, just avoid it altogether.

 

[Bann]

One persons Ronald Reagan is anthers Maxine, right? So, it becomes this...thing. Yet another politicized exercise in self aggrandizement by party. I didn't like it when National was named after Reagan nor BWI after Marshall. I think it dumb and totally inappropriate in a nation such as ours where the ideas, not the people, are supposed to be cherished.

I'm going to give up typing on my phone. I meant to type I don't agree that naming ships after people is wrong. It is a time honored Naval tradition and there is criteria for naming a ship in each class or of ship.

 

[Larry Gude]

I'm going to give up typing on my phone. I meant to type I don't agree that naming ships after people is wrong. It is a time honored Naval tradition and there is criteria for naming a ship in each class or of ship.

Wait until we can vote with our phones! "Alfred E. Neuman??? I clicked NO!!!!"

 

[Larry Gude]

The USS Caitlyn. .

Stealth ship. You don't really know what it is...until it's too late!

 

[vraiblonde]

And fake or not, you can see someone making a case for her, yes? Or Waters or Dubbya or Obama or the USS Bill Clinton... "She's gonna bloooowwww Cahptin! She cahnt take anymohr!" So, just avoid it altogether.

So dispense with tradition just because someone somewhere might make a silly suggestion?

No more Christmas and Thanksgiving then, right? No Easter. Certainly no Fourth of July celebrations.

I don't agree that that's the way to handle silly people.

 

[Larry Gude]

So dispense with tradition just because someone somewhere might make a silly suggestion?

No more Christmas and Thanksgiving then, right? No Easter. Certainly no Fourth of July celebrations.

I don't agree that that's the way to handle silly people.

Tradition? The tradition was to NOT name ships for people living or dead. It is absolutely a contemporary, progressive, touchy feel-y modern, stylish thing to name them after people.

So there.

 

[vraiblonde]

Tradition? The tradition was to NOT name ships for people living or dead. It is absolutely a contemporary, progressive, touchy feel-y modern, stylish thing to name them after people.

So there.

What are you considering "contemporary? The USS Hancock was commissioned in 1775.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Hancock_(1775)

 

[vraiblonde]

United States ship naming conventions for the navy were established by United States Assistant Secretary of the Navy Theodore Roosevelt.

 

[BOP]

It...wouldn't have been bombed at Pearl Harbor?

Before or after the Germans invaded Hawaii?