Violent crime rate at "tipping point"?

[Pete]

What the hell is a "tipping point"?

What is missing here?

Explanations vary -- from softer gun laws to budget cuts, fewer police on the beat, more people in poverty, expanding gang violence and simple complacency. But many blame a national preoccupation with potential threats from overseas since the attacks of September 11, 2001.

Blame blame everywhere but not a single mention of a complete and utter collapse of family values, personal responsibility, respect for human life, degradation of civilized behavior?

How can that be? How can you speak about violent crimes, murders, and not speak about an entire generation growing up idolizing thugs, gangsters, and wanton mayhem, devoid of any parental control or parental role models?

 

[bresamil]

You're using common sense. When is the last time the media ever reported anything using common sense? Or facts even?

 

[Pete]

Less criminals = less crime. More police does not mean less criminals since cops catch them AFTER they do the crime. :shrug:

The excuse "preoccupation with potential threats from overseas since the attacks of September 11, 2001" is the most absurd frigging thing I have ever heard. Does anyone really believe thugs and gangsta's give a crap about terrorism?

 

[MMDad]

Less criminals = less crime. More police does not mean less criminals since cops catch them AFTER they do the crime. :shrug:

The excuse "preoccupation with potential threats from overseas since the attacks of September 11, 2001" is the most absurd frigging thing I have ever heard. Does anyone really believe thugs and gangsta's give a crap about terrorism?

Crime actually went down for a while after 9/11. People were more polite on the roads and in person. We were all one people against the bastages who did it. Then we forgot.

Blaming 9/11 is unbeleivably stupid. It was a hiccup in crime, just enough to let us know what it could be like if people actually cared about each other.

 

[BuddyLee]

What the hell is a "tipping point"?

What is missing here?

Blame blame everywhere but not a single mention of a complete and utter collapse of family values, personal responsibility, respect for human life, degradation of civilized behavior?

How can that be? How can you speak about violent crimes, murders, and not speak about an entire generation growing up idolizing thugs, gangsters, and wanton mayhem, devoid of any parental control or parental role models?

Because those take a lot longer to fix, not to mention effort.

The others take a bit of effort until a law is passed, then all is supposed to be well. Band-aiding the situation is what we do; the money is not in the cure.

 

[Pete]

Because those take a lot longer to fix, not to mention effort.

The others take a bit of effort until a law is passed, then all is supposed to be well. Band-aiding the situation is what we do; the money is not in the cure.

Those "things" are not fixable by the government. What are they going to do, give beebee momma a tax credit for teaching their kids to be upstanding citizens?

How many times have you seen it. Alphonzo guns down 4 teenagers at the park, the cops blow him away, then Alphonzo's distraught mother is on TV bawling about how her baby couldn't have done it, he was a great boy.

You can double the size of the police forces across the nation and it will do nothing because they can't do anything until someone breaks the law. They going to arrest people because they "look" like they might murder someone?

 

[MMDad]

Those "things" are not fixable by the government.

Those things were caused by the entitlement society, which was created by the government. Granted, the government can't fix today what they took 70 years to create, but isn't this a great time to start fixing?

 

[Toxick]

I blame it all on gas prices.


If gas were more affordable, people wouldn't be killing and shooting and robbing each other so they can get from place to place.





I also blame gas prices for global warming, rampant atheism, 9/11, psorisis of the liver, humidity, and cancer.

 

[BuddyLee]

Those things were caused by the entitlement society, which was created by the government. Granted, the government can't fix today what they took 70 years to create, but isn't this a great time to start fixing?

Pete, its hard for the government or any entity to fix a problem with an unknown endpoint. We have described some of this endpoint but as the article suggests, there are multiple endpoints some being more obtuse than others.

At least if we found an endpoint we could 'most all' agree on, that would help the process. However, that is perhaps more Wilsonian than not.

 

[Pete]

Pete, its hard for the government or any entity to fix a problem with an unknown endpoint. We have described some of this endpoint but as the article suggests, there are multiple endpoints some being more obtuse than others.

At least if we found an endpoint we could 'most all' agree on, that would help the process. However, that is perhaps more Wilsonian than not.

You graduated now, speak English

As long as humans walk the earth there will be crime, so there is no "endpoint". What they want is a reduction in violent crime. The ideal "endpoint" is zero violent crime and murders. That is not obtuse but a very pointed goal that is unattainable, but it is not unrealistic to think we can greatly reduce the occurance. Thus our ENDPOINT is a lower rate than we have right now.

 

[Warron]

Those things were caused by the entitlement society, which was created by the government. Granted, the government can't fix today what they took 70 years to create, but isn't this a great time to start fixing?

Sure, we all know there was no crime before socialism. All them ganksters back in the 20s were just makebelieve. And we all know how everyone obeyed the letter of the law in the 1700 and 1800's while overthrowing the previous government and killing indians.

 

[MMDad]

Sure, we all know there was no crime before socialism. All them ganksters back in the 20s were just makebelieve. And we all know how everyone obeyed the letter of the law in the 1700 and 1800's while overthrowing the previous government and killing indians.

What does that have to do with:

How can that be? How can you speak about violent crimes, murders, and not speak about an entire generation growing up idolizing thugs, gangsters, and wanton mayhem, devoid of any parental control or parental role models?

 

[BuddyLee]

You graduated now, speak English

As long as humans walk the earth there will be crime, so there is no "endpoint". What they want is a reduction in violent crime. The ideal "endpoint" is zero violent crime and murders. That is not obtuse but a very pointed goal that is unattainable, but it is not unrealistic to think we can greatly reduce the occurance. Thus our ENDPOINT is a lower rate than we have right now.

You say there is no endpoint and then describe one below that. There are always endpoints or goals and when those are accomplished new ones spring up. With new solutions come new problems, almost always.

And how will you obtain this endpoint? There are many conflicting views; which argument will win if any?

I go back to my initial point, the money is not in the cure. Putting more police on the streets is only band-aiding the situation. Building more prisons is band-aiding the situation. The government can do something, they can always do something. For instance, you don't think the government has never used propagana to push a certain view?

 

[2ndAmendment]

Because those take a lot longer to fix, not to mention effort.

The others take a bit of effort until a law is passed, then all is supposed to be well. Band-aiding the situation is what we do; the money is not in the cure.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The law, new, old, proposed, does not prevent crime; it only defines it. We have had some laws handed down to us several thousand years ago. There are only ten of them. If we all live by them, we would not have any crime at all. So we have 100,000 laws or more and we still don't live by them. Heck, let's pass 50 - 100,000 more laws so we don't obey them either.

Stupid politicians, stupid press, and stupid people that believe them.

 

[sgt_turmoil]

tipping point

first off the crimes that are prosecuted are not the real problems, people being arressted for small ammounts of marijuana, what about the large ammounts, where is it coming from. how about the fact that our US postal service was on the news because anyone can fill out a change of address form and drop it in the box, what about having certified mail sent to people with court dates instead of prosecuting failure to appears for lets say a bad check. what about people who use child support money to support drug and alcohol activity. how about taking 50 percent of that money if they fail a drug test and catch a neglect of a minor charge or contributing to charge. I could lose my job and rank and clearance in the military if i even go around someone who uses it. stop the bigger crimes. right now we have investigators out trying to find out who spray painted the high school. yeah its a problem but really has a can of spray paint actually killed anyone unless they were "huffing" or threw the can and hit someone in a pressure point to make them drop right there. i personally think kids are running their folks with threats to call child protective services. In Calvert a kid cried wolf so bad that his mom is on probation for yelling at her kid trying to correct him. I met the kid and im glad hes not mine cause i would have kicked his tail and told CPS to haul his tail outta my house if i cant correct my own kid. Thats why i think the younger generation is the way they are. when i was young and got in trouble in school, i got beat at school by the teacher and then again at home and then by my grandparents. I turned out to be a noncommissioned officer in the militaty by my own choice, I have three college degrees and bought and sold my own house by 22 years old. I have a 4 year old son that is scared to even go near my crystal chess set because he knows its mine. He dares not touch anything thats not his and i never had to spank him to get him to understand that. It starts early people. the crime rate is our fault.

 

[ItalianScallion]

Hi forumites! I've been gone a month. Mom got real sick then died 2 weeks ago, but her legacy still lives in me. I read the police briefs each week and one thing upsets me so much that I met with the Charles Co. commissioners about it recently. The idea that most kids under 18 who commit serious crimes are "released back to their parents" who are MOST LIKELY the reason that they did it in the first place! They should NOT be given back to the parents right away. Investigate their home environment first! My parents kept a tight reign on me and even though I went wild after I turned 18, I never committed ANY crimes worth jail time mainly because of my parent's strong moral values instilled in me! I think that parents should be held accountable for ANYTHING their "under 18" kids do and this alone will stop most juvenile crimes. Then, for those over 18, make the punishment for the crimes much more strict than they are presently. Rape, robbery, assault, murder, child abuse, etc., punished to the maximum on the FIRST offense. All others should be punished by complete restitution of property, money and any hardships inflicted on the victims. It just proves what the Bible says however, kick God out of our homes, government and schools and evil will take over. (2 Timothy 3). Hope you all are doing well!

 

[2ndAmendment]

Linear human thinking leaves no room for the omnipotence and omniscience of God.

Try parallel lines of thought. Parallel time lines. God sees all your options and possible choices and the outcome of all those choices, but the choice is yours. God just knows the outcome based on your choice and then the parallelism goes from that choice since it is past.

 

[Larry Gude]

Some more lives...

...altered.

http://www.nbc25.com/content/fulltext/?sid=fe1dbd82bcea3aa325573c9e25f73e2c&cid=11777

FREDERICK COUNTY, MD - Police think a 15-year-old boy was behind a triple shooting in Walkersville over the weekend.

 

[ItalianScallion]

God has already selected you to be either Good or Evil. (kinda answers the freewill question). So the evil in society is already chosen by God.
Meaning it doesnt matter what you do, how Godly/Pious/Christian you are, the Devil can take you captive whenever he pleases.

Sorry my friend, but you are absolutely wrong on this interpretation. God did NOT select us to be good or evil. Genesis states that God created EVERYTHING good & very good. We choose to BECOME good or evil depending on a lot of factors & choices in our lives. God knows what choices we will make before we're even born but He is NOT the cause of them. God already knows who will be saved and who won't and He predestines Christians for His will for our lives. WE STILL HAVE FREE WILL TO SIN but as Christians we try not to. And secondly, the devil cannot take any Christian "captive". He can only do what God allows him to do to anyone. He can only posess or take captive an unbeliever. He can influence Christians to sin but it is OUR choice if we do. And it does matter what we do because each of us is accountable for our own actions. Well Stanley, here's another fine thread that you have hijacked. Rock on!

 

[virgovictoria]

I read somewhere, it escapes me now, that violence and apathy and the ability to remove one's self from the feeling of guilt is more related to the increase in crime across the board, in every area, as it became more convenient for folks to not have to rely upon one another. Crime, especially violent crime used to be mainly passionate in nature. Remove your true sociopaths and you find someone caught in desperation. Hurt. Hungry. Broken.

Now, we have conveniences. We don't need our neighbors to put up our barns; we can take from them without conscious - we don't know them. Well so much is true for businesses and dime a dozen buildings that weren't built by many with TLC.

Apparently, if you isolate and know not your grocer, you feel rational argument as to why you may take what is not yours. You claim certain zoned areas with other like ethnicity - you take the lives of those who you feel don't belong.

Lives don't mean much if you don't know them - you feel you don't need them. The mentality changed some time ago when it was okay to kill for money. Or to kill so that no witness would be left to testify once they've been brutally raped and beaten.

Whatever is convenient. Just don't get caught. Now that is inconvenient.