Voter fraud and other delusions

[Larry Gude]

ok, but that does not stop them from voting in an election ....

Uh....I don't think I said it did...

To be clear, I think, obviously, non citizens vote. And I think it's more than a few. And I'm not saying it's all bad per se. Let's not lose site that Trump won more Hispanics than Romney did. That means that, politically, we can't say these are just D voters, or R, and that's all they're ever be. If you're a right winger, Mexicans are serious Christian, family oriented and willing to work. And they like beer and football.

 

[terbear1225]

wrong kind of football.




(sorry, bad joke. I'll go sit in the corner and think about what I've done now)

 

[SamSpade]

Why are illegal immigrants getting drivers licenses in the first place?

You know - if I get a *Visa* and go live in, say, France for a while - I'm gonna go out on a limb and say, they'll probably have a way to let me drive.
Yep - just looked it up - for 90 days I can use my US license, and after that an International Driving Permit.

But I'm pretty sure they're not going to let me VOTE.

What's the matter with people here? They *KNOW* they're here illegally, and still give 'em the keys to the kingdom?

 

[SamSpade]

Uh....I don't think I said it did...

To be clear, I think, obviously, non citizens vote. And I think it's more than a few. And I'm not saying it's all bad per se. Let's not lose site that Trump won more Hispanics than Romney did. That means that, politically, we can't say these are just D voters, or R, and that's all they're ever be. If you're a right winger, Mexicans are serious Christian, family oriented and willing to work. And they like beer and football.

And they were able to convince Hispanics that Trump hates them - so, maybe more than Romney but not saying a lot.

I wonder how many of those extra 3-4 million votes from California were legally or illegally cast? THAT is where she got her lead - she won California by the largest number difference and almost largest percentage.

 

[This_person]

To be clear, I think, obviously, non citizens vote. And I think it's more than a few. And I'm not saying it's all bad per se.

Wait, you don't think a legal citizen of the United States should be allowed to give money to a candidate for office that is not in the district the potential voting citizen lives, but you think it is not "all bad per se" that a person who is not allowed to vote votes?

What if the legal citizen just votes illegally in the different district - is it ok then for that citizen to donate to their favorite candidate in that district, since they're voting there?

 

[Larry Gude]

Wait, you don't think a legal citizen of the United States should be allowed to give money to a candidate for office that is not in the district the potential voting citizen lives, but you think it is not "all bad per se" that a person who is not allowed to vote votes? ?

If you wanted Candidate A and illegals voted for him, I assumed you'd see that as good. :shrug:

 

[Larry Gude]

And they were able to convince Hispanics that Trump hates them - so, maybe more than Romney but not saying a lot. .

I think it is ENORMOUS that Hispanics voted more for Trump than Romney BECAUSE of the crap Trump said about them and because of the press campaign against Trump. I think it says a lot. :shrug:

 

[This_person]

If you wanted Candidate A and illegals voted for him, I assumed you'd see that as good. :shrug:

No, my principles are not based on the ends justifying the means.

I would much rather the rules be followed and lose than cheat and win. That's just me.

But, in your opinion, if I vote illegally in San Francisco, is it then ok that I donate to "anyone but Nancy"? Or, since that's not legally where I can vote, am I still wrong for donating? What is the standard you are using here - "it's ok to vote in a district you can't legally vote in, but not donate to a candidate for a district in which you cannot legally vote" is what you've established, I'm just trying to figure out if that's really what you mean.

 

[Hijinx]

Uh....I don't think I said it did...

To be clear, I think, obviously, non citizens vote. And I think it's more than a few. And I'm not saying it's all bad per se. Let's not lose site that Trump won more Hispanics than Romney did. That means that, politically, we can't say these are just D voters, or R, and that's all they're ever be. If you're a right winger, Mexicans are serious Christian, family oriented and willing to work. And they like beer and football.

You say Trump got more Hispanic votes than Romney.
Wer they Cuban Hispanics who went for Trump or Mexican Hispanics.
I kind of doubt he got a large Mexican Hispanic vote.

 

[Hijinx]

If you wanted Candidate A and illegals voted for him, I assumed you'd see that as good. :shrug:

You can believe this about me. If illegals are voting hard for someone you can pretty much lay odds that I am voting for the opposition.

 

[GURPS]

Trump argument bolstered: Clinton received 800,000 votes from noncitizens, study finds



Hillary Clinton garnered more than 800,000 votes from noncitizens on Nov. 8, an approximation far short of President Trump’s estimate of up to 5 million illegal voters but supportive of his charges of fraud.

Political scientist Jesse Richman of Old Dominion University in Norfolk, Virginia, has worked with colleagues to produce groundbreaking research on noncitizen voting, and this week he posted a blog in response to Mr. Trump’s assertion.

Based on national polling by a consortium of universities, a report by Mr. Richman said 6.4 percent of the estimated 20 million adult noncitizens in the U.S. voted in November. He extrapolated that that percentage would have added 834,381 net votes for Mrs. Clinton, who received about 2.8 million more votes than Mr. Trump.

 

[vraiblonde]

And once again Charles Krauthammer and the rest of the rightwing Trump haters get to look like the fools they are.

 

[Larry Gude]

And once again Charles Krauthammer and the rest of the rightwing Trump haters get to look like the fools they are.

Is there ANY grounds on which it's Ok to oppose Trump that are valid in your view? Here's a project; if it was up to you to mount opposition to Trump on reasoned and thoughtful grounds, what would that argument sound like? Chuck Schumer calls you and offers $1 million to help lead the D's to taking back the House and Senate in 2 years. You get a $1 million bonus if it works, $500k for the House, $500k for the Senate. And he says it has to be something YOU can live with, won't be ashamed of BUT win neither and you have to give back the original million. Plus, he gives you $20k a month now for personal expenses, campground fees, dog treats, Monello's grocery budget that you get to keep. Unlimited budget for staff and support, media folks, print, web.

Or is The Trump beyond reasoned opposition?

 

[Wishbone]

Democrats never use "reason" for any purpose.

 

[PsyOps]

Is there ANY grounds on which it's Ok to oppose Trump that are valid in your view? Here's a project; if it was up to you to mount opposition to Trump on reasoned and thoughtful grounds, what would that argument sound like? Chuck Schumer calls you and offers $1 million to help lead the D's to taking back the House and Senate in 2 years. You get a $1 million bonus if it works, $500k for the House, $500k for the Senate. And he says it has to be something YOU can live with, won't be ashamed of BUT win neither and you have to give back the original million. Plus, he gives you $20k a month now for personal expenses, campground fees, dog treats, Monello's grocery budget that you get to keep. Unlimited budget for staff and support, media folks, print, web.

Or is The Trump beyond reasoned opposition?

I can say you can't pay me enough to campaign for democrats. Become wealthy while promoting the destruction of this country? I'll keep my country and stay poor.

Now, I know you're going to come back with "and you think the Rs aren't destroying the country?", and you're right. But, today, in this real world, it's one or the other and I just get myself to trust democrats at all. I at least have some trust in republicans.

 

[Larry Gude]

I can say you can't pay me enough to campaign for democrats. Become wealthy while promoting the destruction of this country? I'll keep my country and stay poor.

Now, I know you're going to come back with "and you think the Rs aren't destroying the country?", and you're right. But, today, in this real world, it's one or the other and I just get myself to trust democrats at all. I at least have some trust in republicans.

Ok, so, Trump switches back before the '20 election to being the life long Democrat he was. NOW can you engage in an intellectual exercise??

 

[Larry Gude]

Now, I know you're going to come back with "and you think the Rs aren't destroying the country?", .

Ha.

 

[vraiblonde]

Is there ANY grounds on which it's Ok to oppose Trump that are valid in your view?

Sure, but it should be for something he actually did, not stupid crap the press makes up and spins into oblivion or projects *could* happen in the future. It's been one week, too soon to tell, and I'm in "wait and see" mode. So far, so good, will re-evaluate periodically.

Here's a project; if it was up to you to mount opposition to Trump on reasoned and thoughtful grounds, what would that argument sound like? Chuck Schumer calls you and offers $1 million to help lead the D's to taking back the House and Senate in 2 years. You get a $1 million bonus if it works, $500k for the House, $500k for the Senate. And he says it has to be something YOU can live with, won't be ashamed of BUT win neither and you have to give back the original million. Plus, he gives you $20k a month now for personal expenses, campground fees, dog treats, Monello's grocery budget that you get to keep. Unlimited budget for staff and support, media folks, print, web.

If I were a Democrat leader and wanted to get some party power back, I'd be working with Trump to represent my constituents, not being combative just for the sake of it and vowing to oppose him no matter what he does. I would try to bring civil discourse and compromise back into our political system, and would be the first one to condemn the hothead fringe nutters in my own party. The American public is tired of that us vs. them crap - WE the People.

Of course, the Dems aren't going to go for that because they're way too far over the edge, past the point of no return. They've turned their core constituents into crazed bots who rant nonsensically and won't see reason no matter how you present it. They don't any of them - Dems or GOP - seem to be able to learn from their mistakes, and they absolutely don't know how to correct them. The GOP thinks it won? Aren't they cute? TRUMP won, the end. The ONLY reason Hillary Clinton isn't our president right this minute is because she had to face Trump. And they didn't even see it coming, that's how tone deaf they are.

Anyway, given that the Dems have vowed to fight, obstruct, and oppose no matter what, their only hope is that Trump screws up royally.

 

[vraiblonde]

I can say you can't pay me enough to campaign for democrats.

I'm a liberal conservative, so I would campaign for Democrats; I would vote for Democrats. Not THESE Democrats, but I would vote for one that was moderate and reasonable. The problem is that just when I think we have one of those - a reasonable moderate Democrat - they turn into a freaking nutbag once they get purchased. Tim Kaine, for example. Joe Biden for another one. Anyone remember the presto changeo that Joe Lieberman went through during the 2000 campaign, only to revert back to sanity once it was over?

 

[Larry Gude]

If I were a Democrat leader and wanted to get some party power back, I'd be working with Trump to represent my constituents, .

This IS coming and it's happening NOW. The press isn't saying much about it because they can't but unions, skilled tradespeople, are already in. When wages rise for working people because of infrastructure spending, and engineers and architects do better because of that and low skilled workers are seeing wages, the value of them, go up with an ever stronger dollar, D's either get on board or sit out the next 4-8 years.