We know it's a dictator!

PJay

Well-Known Member
Seeker, I am curious why you never go after Biden for being a pedophile.
Yeah right.... I see that.... ;)

same for you.. remember this:

It's no secret I abhor Trump. My reason for this abhorrence is directly related to the way he has always treated women. I got my first whiff of him back in the early 60's. He's done nothing to change my opinion about his piggishness.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
same for you.. remember this:
I remember that. EARLY 60s. When Trump was still a teenager. Oh maybe meant early 70s? Nobody had heard of him. Maybe early 80s? Possibly. Who knows?

He was also a Democrat then. A friend of Clintons and Jesse Jackson.
 

RoseRed

American Beauty
PREMO Member
I remember that. EARLY 60s. When Trump was still a teenager. Oh maybe meant early 70s? Nobody had heard of him. Maybe early 80s? Possibly. Who knows?

He was also a Democrat then. A friend of Clintons and Jesse Jackson.
Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous in the 80's.
 

seekeroftruth

Well-Known Member
Wow.... Every creature will say.... It gets loud when the birds all chirp at the same time... a pack of dogs can be really loud.... and add in the rest of the animals all at once .... it will be chaos!

Revelation 5:13 Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying:
“To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
be praise and honor and glory and power,
for ever and ever!”
It's a Bible Study... but it sure brought out the "chaos". Imagine what it will be like when it is caused by the imminent popping of the first seal on the scroll.

Verse 1 of Revelation 6 is about the rider on the White Horse.

What would happen when the first seal is popped, will bring on the stolen peace in Verse 3.

This morning [3/5/24] I'm planning to post on the third seal being popped. It's a Bible Study... just like all the others.

Review.... the first seal... The White Horse... ridden by a dictator.

Review.... the second seal... The Red Horse... The rider will take away our peace and make us fight.

Now I'm going on to Revelation 6:5 where I will see the third horse; and I will read David Guzik and the Blue Letter Bible Commentary. Then I will comment on what I think the verses say.

Yep... for those who asked... I laughed out loud when all the computers didn't just melt when we got to the year 2000. I cried when those people were murdered in Jonestown too. We just don't know when it's coming but we can sure look out for it... like we look out for tornados.

Sorry if I offend anyone... but I do it every day... Sometimes it kicks up dust.

:coffee:
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
like we look out for tornados.

Or perhaps instead of looking out for tornadoes you live your life prepared for a surprise tornado as best you can, and not spend a lot of time worrying about things you can't control.....

One thing I find interesting about Democrat Christians is their remarkable ability to compartmentalize. How do you resolve abortion or transgender children or facilitating drug abuse with your faith and what the Bible tells you about God? Would Jesus say, "Sure, if that pregnancy is inconvenient for you go ahead and rip that baby from the womb and kill it"? Would he say, "If your 10 year old daughter says she wishes she was a boy, go ahead and put her on drugs and surgically alter her"? Or, "If someone is destroying their temple with drugs, give them clean needles and legalize the drug"?

Do all of Jesus' teachings go out the window when it comes to politics and specifically Donald Trump? Is it okay to hate because it's Trump? Is it okay to align yourself with violent anarchists because Trump must be destroyed by any means?

I have asked that question of a number of Democrat Christians and rarely if ever have gotten a straight answer. The more honest ones just flat say that Trump is literally Satan so whatever it takes to destroy him is the Christian thing to do, but mostly it's a lot of "Weeeellllll...." double-speak followed by "But TRUMP!!" 100% of the time they get angry and abusive that I asked the question.

I'd be interested in hearing how you resolve this cognitive dissonance. And can you do it without mentioning or referring to Trump in any way? Just Democrats and their political platform, nobody else.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
Do all of Jesus' teachings go out the window when it comes to politics and specifically Donald Trump? Is it okay to hate because it's Trump? Is it okay to align yourself with violent anarchists because Trump must be destroyed by any means?
In several verses in the writings of Paul and others, Christians are admonished to "honor the emperor" even though they all acknowledge that the emperor himself is evil. Ditto governing authorities.

In 1 Thessalonians, Paul urges the Christians to "make it your ambition to lead a quiet life: You should mind your own business and work with your hands, just as we told you, so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will not be dependent on anybody". Elsewhere, similar exhortations - live quietly and humbly so that those who malign you might be ashamed.

None of this political vengeful crap. The politicians are of this world - let them be. Life is short.
 

stgislander

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
In several verses in the writings of Paul and others, Christians are admonished to "honor the emperor" even though they all acknowledge that the emperor himself is evil. Ditto governing authorities.

In 1 Thessalonians, Paul urges the Christians to "make it your ambition to lead a quiet life: You should mind your own business and work with your hands, just as we told you, so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will not be dependent on anybody". Elsewhere, similar exhortations - live quietly and humbly so that those who malign you might be ashamed.

None of this political vengeful crap. The politicians are of this world - let them be. Life is short.
Unfortunately Seeker doesn't believe in Paul's conversion.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
In several verses in the writings of Paul and others, Christians are admonished to "honor the emperor" even though they all acknowledge that the emperor himself is evil. Ditto governing authorities.

In 1 Thessalonians, Paul urges the Christians to "make it your ambition to lead a quiet life: You should mind your own business and work with your hands, just as we told you, so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will not be dependent on anybody". Elsewhere, similar exhortations - live quietly and humbly so that those who malign you might be ashamed.

None of this political vengeful crap. The politicians are of this world - let them be. Life is short.

How does a Christian honor an evil emperor and also honor God? Shouldn't they reject evil and speak out against it instead of honoring that which they know is wrong and against the teachings of Jesus? Is late term abortion or transing children okay because the emperor says so, and he trumps God? Because my understanding of Christianity is that God is the Big Kahuna and Jesus is His messenger, and you're not supposed to have any other gods before Him.

I get rendering unto Caesar and all, where it gets murky is actively cheering on and facilitating the evil an emperor enacts. Would Paul have said to honor Hitler and help him create an Aryan nation, don't worry about it because God will forgive you when you hit the pearly gates? And when you die would St. Peter be all, "Don't worry about driving that train full of children to the gas chambers, you were honoring the emperor...."?

These are real questions, not trying to be argumentative.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
These are real questions, not trying to be argumentative.
I guess I look at it like this -

Does a medic in combat charge into battle, shooting everyone in sight, to save the wounded? Well I suppose sometimes. But mostly, he has a mission to heal the wounded. In a nutshell, the Christian's "mission" is not to fight evil but to overcome it, with good. That might mean - dying in the process.

You're here on earth for a blink of an eye, and spend forever in the hereafter. If you were on vacation in the Caribbean, do you take part in their protests? Heck no, it's not your concern. Focus your attention on what God asks of you. Seek ye first etc.

Honoring the emperor doesn't mean "Heil Hitler". You 'honor' the police, even though they might be azzzholes. When they pull you over, you give them respect and comply. You pay your taxes, even though the government might be corrupt. Bear in mind, you live here in the United States, but millions of Christians throughout the world live under leaders who are not at all "good". Some of them are evil. It's not the Christian's mission to overthrow them.

I've met countless Christian "activists" who believe it's the Christian's job to stop evil. That is impossible. I suppose I see it as - do you save someone who is drowning - or do you work to dam up the river?

I realize that we could argue specific instances of this or that or whatabouts - but that's my general look at it.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
And when you die would St. Peter be all, "Don't worry about driving that train full of children to the gas chambers, you were honoring the emperor...."?
I would say - you refuse. And they shoot you.

In Rome, Christians would be asked, say Caesar is God. They would refuse. Killed. Yeah it sucks, but not in the big picture.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
I would say - you refuse. And they shoot you.

In Rome, Christians would be asked, say Caesar is God. They would refuse. Killed. Yeah it sucks, but not in the big picture.

I would think true Christians wouldn't fear death, they would welcome it because it means they can go live in Heaven with God and have eternal life.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
I would think true Christians wouldn't fear death, they would welcome it because it means they can go live in Heaven with God and have eternal life.
Oh absolutely. There are scores of stories of the early martyrs - rather than be pushed into the flames, they chose to jump.
A story about Peter's wife was that, upon pressure to admit Caesar was God, they threatened torture on his wife. When he was about to cave, she said, "remember the Lord" and jumped to her death.

This - challenge - of seeing death as oblivion - rather than transition - is fundamentally crucial to just about all of our issues. If people truly believed that death was walking through a door to paradise, they wouldn't curse God for allowing innocents to die.

But all life fears death. It's one of the very definitions of BEING alive.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
I guess I look at it like this -

Does a medic in combat charge into battle, shooting everyone in sight, to save the wounded? Well I suppose sometimes. But mostly, he has a mission to heal the wounded. In a nutshell, the Christian's "mission" is not to fight evil but to overcome it, with good. That might mean - dying in the process.

You're here on earth for a blink of an eye, and spend forever in the hereafter. If you were on vacation in the Caribbean, do you take part in their protests? Heck no, it's not your concern. Focus your attention on what God asks of you. Seek ye first etc.

Honoring the emperor doesn't mean "Heil Hitler". You 'honor' the police, even though they might be azzzholes. When they pull you over, you give them respect and comply. You pay your taxes, even though the government might be corrupt. Bear in mind, you live here in the United States, but millions of Christians throughout the world live under leaders who are not at all "good". Some of them are evil. It's not the Christian's mission to overthrow them.

I've met countless Christian "activists" who believe it's the Christian's job to stop evil. That is impossible. I suppose I see it as - do you save someone who is drowning - or do you work to dam up the river?

I realize that we could argue specific instances of this or that or whatabouts - but that's my general look at it.

But isn't there a cowardice in knocking on doors to try and bring the Good News to your neighbors, but when it comes to true evil, eh, none of my business? Safety and ease over courage and potential danger? Didn't Jesus risk his life - literally - challenging the emperor? Isn't that what he was crucified for?

What exactly is the Christian's mission?

I'm just trying to understand. The reason I don't believe in God or the Bible as anything other than a history book is because of these discrepancies and contradictions, but I'm very interested in religion and the human aspect of it all.
 

seekeroftruth

Well-Known Member
But isn't there a cowardice in knocking on doors to try and bring the Good News to your neighbors, but when it comes to true evil, eh, none of my business? Safety and ease over courage and potential danger? Didn't Jesus risk his life - literally - challenging the emperor? Isn't that what he was crucified for?

What exactly is the Christian's mission?

I'm just trying to understand. The reason I don't believe in God or the Bible as anything other than a history book is because of these discrepancies and contradictions, but I'm very interested in religion and the human aspect of it all.
Christians have two missions or rules or obligations.... 1 Love God with all our heart, mind and soul.... 2 Love others as you wish they would love you.

Jesus told us to go spread the Word that He Is Risen. He's not stuck in a tomb somewhere to be dug up and examined like King Tut. He's gone... That's what we are supposed to tell people.

We're supposed to be kind... that will draw the crowd... and then when someone says "what's with you?" we're supposed to reply, "I have Jesus in my heart". Or that's what I was taught.... That opens the door for the Salvation discussion.

I figure... and it's only my opinion... the reason the Bible is so full of discrepancies it that some people pick and choose whatever suits the sermon or the lesson. If you read it cover to cover... as I've done on line here on these threads.... You can see the whole picture.

God started a perfect world and then it all went to hell in a handbasket. He tried to clean it up with a flood [wash it off] but that didn't work because humans are just humans. He sent His Son and the Pharisees hung Him on a Cross because He didn't like what the Pharisees were doing. They were jealous I figure.

If I didn't have God to Believe in... If I didn't have Jesus... I would have been gone a long, long, time ago.

I have HOPE that everything will work out. It comes from my Faith.

I tell myself that if I'm wrong... well I was going to be worm food anyway... or flutter away in the air as ashes... but if I'm right.... I'm going to Heaven.... I HOPE I'm right.

What have I got to lose?

:coffee:
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
But isn't there a cowardice in knocking on doors to try and bring the Good News to your neighbors, but when it comes to true evil, eh, none of my business? Safety and ease over courage and potential danger?

Well for one, I can tell you, few things WERE scarier to me than going door to door, or approaching strangers in the street. I dreaded it.
And I can tell you, lots of people were all fired up for the dangerous stuff, only to learn they really were no good at it. (raising hand).
The general rule of thumb is, if you're not any good at the tamer stuff, maybe you shouldn't go into the scary stuff.

Christians in the early centuries were killed just for going about their business, and they may have been brave - but like the Jews in the Holocaust, they didn't have a lot of choice.

Although I personally detest the idea of thinking of Christians as "soldiers of the cross" - mentioned in lots of hymns - lots of soldiers engage in war, but do not come back with Purple Crosses or deeds of heroism. They're not supposed to go looking for glory.

Didn't Jesus risk his life - literally - challenging the emperor? Isn't that what he was crucified for?

Well Jesus frequently said during his ministry that his sole mission on Earth was to give his life as a ransom for many - to the befuddlement of his followers, who saw him as a political figure. And he said things that really riled up the crowds - like claiming to be the Messiah - or even GOD - but the Bible says in one of the instances - the crowd simply moved aside and let him walk away, even though they intended to throw him off a cliff. I suppose when you're the Son of God, you know WHEN you're going to die, and how. Jesus CHOSE the manner and time of his death.

But NO, he did not "challenge the emperor". He did challenge the religious authorities, who could be nearly as dangerous. They coerced Pialte into killing Jesus under the idea that saying he was a king was an affront to Caesar, but Pilate insisted "I find no fault in this man". Until finally, he ceremonially washed his hands, gave them some guards and said "knock yourself out". No, the Romans didn't have a problem with him. In fact, Christianity barely registers in early historical accounts. The Romans despised the Jews, not least because they didn't tolerate anyone else's God and some forty years after Jesus' death, they killed - according to Josephus - as many as a million JEWS. But they killed the Jews - they didn't give a rat's butt about Christians.


What exactly is the Christian's mission?
I think evangelicals would say "to seek and save the lost". And there's merit in that. But I don't see it as convincing people who don't want to be convinced. Jesus' story of the farmer sowing seeds - some of it took root, some didn't. I would probably say to seek HIM. Jesus said all the Law can be distilled into two commands - love God, love your neighbor. I think if you seek God, the rest makes sense.

By the way - I can't recommend enough the series "The Chosen". The first several seasons are free on "Angel" network. I've never seen anything like it. It's not irritatingly treacly like so much "Christian" entertainment ALWAYS is. I found it entertaining - the portrayal of Jesus - very human. For some I know, it's the only religious TV they have any interest in.
 

Kinnakeet

Well-Known Member
I guess I look at it like this -

Does a medic in combat charge into battle, shooting everyone in sight, to save the wounded? Well I suppose sometimes. But mostly, he has a mission to heal the wounded. In a nutshell, the Christian's "mission" is not to fight evil but to overcome it, with good. That might mean - dying in the process.

You're here on earth for a blink of an eye, and spend forever in the hereafter. If you were on vacation in the Caribbean, do you take part in their protests? Heck no, it's not your concern. Focus your attention on what God asks of you. Seek ye first etc.

Honoring the emperor doesn't mean "Heil Hitler". You 'honor' the police, even though they might be azzzholes. When they pull you over, you give them respect and comply. You pay your taxes, even though the government might be corrupt. Bear in mind, you live here in the United States, but millions of Christians throughout the world live under leaders who are not at all "good". Some of them are evil. It's not the Christian's mission to overthrow them.

I've met countless Christian "activists" who believe it's the Christian's job to stop evil. That is impossible. I suppose I see it as - do you save someone who is drowning - or do you work to dam up the river?

I realize that we could argue specific instances of this or that or whatabouts - but that's my general look at it.
only one way to stop evil and that is with a gun
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
Christians in the early centuries were killed just for going about their business, and they may have been brave - but like the Jews in the Holocaust, they didn't have a lot of choice.


Muslims are carrying this on today
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
In several verses in the writings of Paul and others, Christians are admonished to "honor the emperor" even though they all acknowledge that the emperor himself is evil. Ditto governing authorities.


All Authority is derived from GOD .... good or bad ... we get saddled with a bad leader to bring the faithful back in check
 
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