We're paying for uninsured motorists. How nice!

[DallasRed]

Uhm... while I can KIND of see your point... I don't think you understand exactly what uninsured and underinsured motorist coverage really is. It's not to pay for damages done to HIS property if he hits you, it's to protect YOU if he hits you and can't pay. All that being said, it's fairly necissary because unless someone gets into an accident or gets pulled over, the cops don't have some kind of homing beacon that allows them to pull over and arrest every uninsured motorist on the road.

Also, living in SOMD, I'm surprised you don't realize how many people are driving uninsured here because of the base. Military and contractors who move into the state but still have their car registered in another one, might not have to pay insurance, depending on that state's law.

Personally, I'd rather spend a little extra on my insurance every month to make sure I'm protected if one of them hits me and they can't pay, than not. I bet you the medical bills and the repairs to your car are going to amount to more than 200 if your insurance company doesn't cover it on their own.

Well isn't that interesting...I still have out of state tags...Keeping my out of state license..But now my rates went up here in MD due to the OP's OT..I did nothing wrong..But now I have to pay more $$$$$$$$$$$$ thanks to the MD drivers..I wonder how the appeal will go

DH just said you have to have Proof of Insurance to get base stickers.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

Where the heck did you get that idea that I don't know what it's for??? I know full well that it covers them hitting me but why the heck should I pay for them?!! They should not drive; plain & simple! You & I and others have to pay, they should too or not drive.
I can also assure you that the DMV has a homing device on their tags. One year my insurance company messed up on my policy renewal and the DMV didn't get the info; 2 days later I had a nasty letter requesting my tags or else!
Next, I hope no one from the base is ununsured. IT'S ILLEGAL IN MARYLAND! As long as they have insurance from their state they're covered.
Finally, if you'd like to send me $200 each year I won't mind accepting it since you dont mind "spending a little extra on my insurance every month to make sure I'm protected if one of them hits me and they can't pay"...
This is the Obama mindset. To me, driving is a privilege NOT a right.
And please send along some extra for the phone & electric bills too.

You're the one posting like you believed you paying that extra money was somehow going to benefit THEM, when it's there to protect YOU. I was just clearing up what looked like you misunderstanding what it's there for. Though I will say you freaking out over it like you did in this post is kind of scary. I'd be just as angry as you if that money was there for THEIR benefit, but's it's not. It's there for MINE. Accidents are expensive. Medical bills resulting from accidents tend to be even more expensive. Think about it this way... would you rather pay 200 and make sure your ass is covered and that if something happens, the insurance company will take care of you, or would you rather pay hundreds or higher into the thousands for medical bills and car repairs when the accident does happen?

I completely agree that driving is a privilage, not a right, and I agree that people shouldn't be driving without insurance because it's the law. But I also am realistic enough to know that people ARE going to break those laws. It happens all the time. Just like any other law, there are people who will try to live outside of it and just like any other law, eventually someone who shouldn't have to, is going to have to pay for that person's selfishness.

The difference between our views seems to be that, taking in to account human nature and the blatant lack of respect people have for the laws, I'd rather protect myself and my son and other passengers by paying a little extra money each year than leave us open to some nasty financial crisis if I didn't have that added protection. You, on the other hand, seem to think that the DMV and the police have a magic wand they can wave to make sure these people aren't going to be on the roads.

The police don't have a homing beacon. The DMV has a computer system that tracks tags vs insurance coverage. When your insurance runs out, the DMV sends you a letter demanding you send the tags back. It's up to YOU to either get insurance, or send in the tags. How many people do you think are going to just give up their tags if it means not having a way to get around? Is it right for them to not do what the DMV tells them? No, of course not, but that obviously doesn't matter to them because they had no problem dropping the insurance to begin with.

 

[direxpgw]

You're the one posting like you believed you paying that extra money was somehow going to benefit THEM, when it's there to protect YOU. I was just clearing up what looked like you misunderstanding what it's there for. Though I will say you freaking out over it like you did in this post is kind of scary. I'd be just as angry as you if that money was there for THEIR benefit, but's it's not. It's there for MINE. Accidents are expensive. Medical bills resulting from accidents tend to be even more expensive. Think about it this way... would you rather pay 200 and make sure your ass is covered and that if something happens, the insurance company will take care of you, or would you rather pay hundreds or higher into the thousands for medical bills and car repairs when the accident does happen?

I completely agree that driving is a privilage, not a right, and I agree that people shouldn't be driving without insurance because it's the law. But I also am realistic enough to know that people ARE going to break those laws. It happens all the time. Just like any other law, there are people who will try to live outside of it and just like any other law, eventually someone who shouldn't have to, is going to have to pay for that person's selfishness.

The difference between our views seems to be that, taking in to account human nature and the blatant lack of respect people have for the laws, I'd rather protect myself and my son and other passengers by paying a little extra money each year than leave us open to some nasty financial crisis if I didn't have that added protection. You, on the other hand, seem to think that the DMV and the police have a magic wand they can wave to make sure these people aren't going to be on the roads.

The police don't have a homing beacon. The DMV has a computer system that tracks tags vs insurance coverage. When your insurance runs out, the DMV sends you a letter demanding you send the tags back. It's up to YOU to either get insurance, or send in the tags. How many people do you think are going to just give up their tags if it means not having a way to get around? Is it right for them to not do what the DMV tells them? No, of course not, but that obviously doesn't matter to them because they had no problem dropping the insurance to begin with.

I understand both points of view. UM coverage does protect you. HOWEVER, it protects you from the negligence of others who for whatever reason dont have adequate coverage. What upsets people so much is the lack of action from the govt to ensure people have adequate coverage. Like anything in this society, it is simply easier to make the responsible people pay more $$$$ when a problem arises, than to hammer the irresponsible (who coincidentally also have a vote). Perhaps if the DMV system found an offender, and after its validity was authenticated the offender was ordered to work 2 weeks on a frigin chain gang to earn the wages to pay the appropriate insurance, I wouldnt be as offended at the $200 charge on my auto policy. But as is the case in the real world all too often, the govt finds any real action politically insensitive and instead goes the typical OBAMA approach and penalizes the responsible. People will get fed up with it after awhile, society will all go the irresponsible route, and it will fall apart.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

I understand both points of view. UM coverage does protect you. HOWEVER, it protects you from the negligence of others who for whatever reason dont have adequate coverage. What upsets people so much is the lack of action from the govt to ensure people have adequate coverage. Like anything in this society, it is simply easier to make the responsible people pay more $$$$ when a problem arises, than to hammer the irresponsible (who coincidentally also have a vote). Perhaps if the DMV system found an offender, and after its validity was authenticated the offender was ordered to work 2 weeks on a frigin chain gang to earn the wages to pay the appropriate insurance, I wouldnt be as offended at the $200 charge on my auto policy. But as is the case in the real world all too often, the govt finds any real action politically insensitive and instead goes the typical OBAMA approach and penalizes the responsible. People will get fed up with it after awhile, society will all go the irresponsible route, and it will fall apart.

I don't always agree with Obama's policies and/or views, but it's rather silly to say that this particular charge on insurance is the "Obama" approach, since it's been a law far longer than he's been in office.

There's a law in place to get people to pay for insurance. Not everyone does, and not everyone will. As for the theory behind making them spend two weeks on a chain gang, I'm sure you'll OK with paying higher taxes, because that's what would happen. We'd have to pay higher taxes to pay for extra man hours and programs run by the state governments to identify, track down, arrest, and detain these people. PLUS, it would be our tax money paying for their insurance at that point(as you said, whatever they earned would go in to paying for adequate insurance coverage), so you'd still be paying for them(and I bet what they'd be earning would be a good deal higher than 200 dollars, because insurance tends to be higher than that.

I'm not saying the current system is perfect, but I don't think there's a way to make it perfect, not without costing us a LOT more money we can't afford to spend at this point.

 

[wch]

Case in point.... I was heading to work in the morning when I was hit in the side by another vehicle. everyone in the other car grabbed their stuff and took off running, only one stayed behind because he had a broken leg, the police arrived and question me about what happened, I showed my drivers license and insurance card, the other person(which indecently was not the driver) had a insurance card but no license. the actual driver was found and brought back to the scene and he had no drivers license either. I called my insurance company and they took care of my vehicle and rental car, since the driver was not listed on the other vehicles policy it was referred to as" unlicensed driver".................and of course i insisted on immigration being called because you guessed it .......... illegal immigrant workers.... think I'm joking I still have the police report

The vehicle did have proper insurance, it was being driven by a person not covered in the policy

 

[Irish_Eyes]

Case in point.... I was heading to work in the morning when I was hit in the side by another vehicle. everyone in the other car grabbed their stuff and took off running, only one stayed behind because he had a broken leg, the police arrived and question me about what happened, I showed my drivers license and insurance card, the other person(which indecently was not the driver) had a insurance card but no license. the actual driver was found and brought back to the scene and he had no drivers license either. I called my insurance company and they took care of my vehicle and rental car, since the driver was not listed on the other vehicles policy it was referred to as" unlicensed driver".................and of course i insisted on immigration being called because you guessed it .......... illegal immigrant workers.... think I'm joking I still have the police report

I'm not at all surprised, and aren't you glad you spend that extra money every month? Think about how high the bills could have been for you had the insurance company not been required to step up and pay because you didn't have uninsured motorist coverage. Is it frustrating to have to pay for other's irresponsibility? Yeah, it is... BUT... it's even more frustrating when you have to pay MORE.

Also, on a side note, I hope you're alright and you're better off than the guy with the broken leg. Best wishes.

 

[Spring10]

What about the new drivers getting their driver's licenses, and their parents don't add them to the family policy?

It's my understanding if you have someone living in your household and they get a driver's license, you have to add them for coverage. So there are alot of parents who don't...which means, there are a TON of new young unexperienced drivers out there. When they get into an accident, the insurance companies don't have to pay out since they were not added to the policy.

Again, how many kids are out there uninsured?

 

[Irish_Eyes]

What about the new drivers getting their driver's licenses, and their parents don't add them to the family policy?

It's my understanding if you have someone living in your household and they get a driver's license, you have to add them for coverage. So there are alot of parents who don't...which means, there are a TON of new young unexperienced drivers out there. When they get into an accident, the insurance companies don't have to pay out since they were not added to the policy.

Again, how many kids are out there uninsured?

Technically, you don't HAVE to add anyone to your policy that you do not want to. That being said, if a parent allows that uninsured driver to operate their vehicle and they get into an accident, the policy holder can be held responsible for damages to their own car. Meanwhile, the other driver(if we're talking hitting another person's car) is protected by their own insurance coverage, under their "uninsured motorist" coverage.

 

[ItalianScallion]

You're the one posting like you believed you paying that extra money was somehow going to benefit THEM, when it's there to protect YOU. I was just clearing up what looked like you misunderstanding what it's there for. Though I will say you freaking out over it like you did in this post is kind of scary. I'd be just as angry as you if that money was there for THEIR benefit, but's it's not. It's there for MINE. Accidents are expensive. Medical bills resulting from accidents tend to be even more expensive. Think about it this way... would you rather pay 200 and make sure your ass is covered and that if something happens, the insurance company will take care of you, or would you rather pay hundreds or higher into the thousands for medical bills and car repairs when the accident does happen?

There you go again Miss-Interpreter. I know full well it's for my benefit my dear, but I'M paying for their coverage! Why won't you see this?? (See why I'm single folks)?
When they have a lapse in insurance, the DMV sends a notice. If there's no reply, the DMV notifies the Police, they go out to the address where the tags are registered and take them and impound the car. NORMAL POLICE WORK! Then they cite them BIG MONEY for their failure to obey the law and that's where our problems end. If they can't get their car out of impound within 30 days, sell it and put the money in a fund to get the rest of them off the streets. It pays for itself.
Why can't you see the ridiculousness of your Obama mentality? I am a law abiding citizen so why should I have to pay for these people's short comings?
And there's plenty of money made from drug busts alone in Md that there should be no shortage of money to get uninsured motorists off the road without raising taxes. People like you simply go along with it and love believing that we should pay for the uninsured so they can drive and cost everybody more money... It costs more to keep them on the road than it would to get them off of it. Why don't you figure out how much we're ALL paying for these leeches in America? I'll bet no one can't count that high.
If everyone with insurance filed complaints, it would get resolved but too many are like you: "Ok Mr insurance company execs, I'll pay for the uninsured in case they hit me" and there it begins. Another raping of the honest citizen by corporate America & Robin Obama Hood.

The difference between our views seems to be that, taking in to account human nature and the blatant lack of respect people have for the laws, I'd rather protect myself and my son and other passengers by paying a little extra money each year than leave us open to some nasty financial crisis if I didn't have that added protection. You, on the other hand, seem to think that the DMV and the police have a magic wand they can wave to make sure these people aren't going to be on the roads.

Go ahead, be a puppet. Do whatever they tell you...Pay for the incompetent.
And, yes they (DMV & Police) do my dear; It's called the LAW! Enforce it and all this stops!

The police don't have a homing beacon. The DMV has a computer system that tracks tags vs insurance coverage. When your insurance runs out, the DMV sends you a letter demanding you send the tags back. It's up to YOU to either get insurance, or send in the tags. How many people do you think are going to just give up their tags if it means not having a way to get around? Is it right for them to not do what the DMV tells them? No, of course not, but that obviously doesn't matter to them because they had no problem dropping the insurance to begin with.

Ever heard of warrants? Police serve them everyday.

I'm not saying the current system is perfect, but I don't think there's a way to make it perfect, not without costing us a LOT more money we can't afford to spend at this point.

Again dear heart: LAW ENFORCEMENT! ENFORCE THE LAW! This is the entire problem with America. Crooks live better than we do!
Costing a lot more money? What the he!! are they doing right now? It's ok for us to pay for their lack of insurance? Are you listening to yourself lady??? "Money we can't afford to spend" is my original freakin point! Why should WE pay for them?

 

[ItalianScallion]

Case in point.... I was heading to work in the morning when I was hit in the side by another vehicle. everyone in the other car grabbed their stuff and took off running, only one stayed behind because he had a broken leg, the police arrived and question me about what happened, I showed my drivers license and insurance card, the other person(which indecently was not the driver) had a insurance card but no license. the actual driver was found and brought back to the scene and he had no drivers license either. I called my insurance company and they took care of my vehicle and rental car, since the driver was not listed on the other vehicles policy it was referred to as" unlicensed driver".................and of course i insisted on immigration being called because you guessed it .......... illegal immigrant workers.... think I'm joking I still have the police report
The vehicle did have proper insurance, it was being driven by a person not covered in the policy

Case in point: Take the tags, the car and sell it, fine their employer (you know they have one and they were heading to work). Why should you're insurance pay for it?
And how about this lie: Your insurance company says they won't raise your premium for an uninsured driver accident right? A claim is a claim. Watch your premium in the near future. Someone has to pay for the damage. It won't be the illegals...maybe Irish_Babe would like to help you pay for them???

 

[Irish_Eyes]

There you go again Miss-Interpreter. I know full well it's for my benefit my dear, but I'M paying for their coverage! Why won't you see this?? (See why I'm single folks)?
When they have a lapse in insurance, the DMV sends a notice. If there's no reply, the DMV notifies the Police, they go out to the address where the tags are registered and take them and impound the car. NORMAL POLICE WORK! Then they cite them BIG MONEY for their failure to obey the law and that's where our problems end. If they can't get their car out of impound within 30 days, sell it and put the money in a fund to get the rest of them off the streets. It pays for itself.
Why can't you see the ridiculousness of your Obama mentality? I am a law abiding citizen so why should I have to pay for these people's short comings?
And there's plenty of money made from drug busts alone in Md that there should be no shortage of money to get uninsured motorists off the road without raising taxes. People like you simply go along with it and love believing that we should pay for the uninsured so they can drive and cost everybody more money... It costs more to keep them on the road than it would to get them off of it. Why don't you figure out how much we're ALL paying for these leeches in America? I'll bet no one can't count that high.
If everyone with insurance filed complaints, it would get resolved but too many are like you: "Ok Mr insurance company execs, I'll pay for the uninsured in case they hit me" and there it begins. Another raping of the honest citizen by corporate America & Robin Obama Hood.

Go ahead, be a puppet. Do whatever they tell you...Pay for the incompetent.
And, yes they (DMV & Police) do my dear; It's called the LAW! Enforce it and all this stops!

Ever heard of warrants? Police serve them everyday.

Again dear heart: LAW ENFORCEMENT! ENFORCE THE LAW! This is the entire problem with America. Crooks live better than we do!
Costing a lot more money? What the he!! are they doing right now? It's ok for us to pay for their lack of insurance? Are you listening to yourself lady??? "Money we can't afford to spend" is my original freakin point! Why should WE pay for them?

There you go again, foaming at the mouth and yelling and screaming about how right you are and how wrong anyone who disagrees with you is. Part of me kind of hoped you were only this way about religion... I see I was wrong to hope. Oh well, at least you're consistent.

And yes, I can see why you're single. No one in their right mind will have you, as deranged as your view of reality is.

 

[direxpgw]

There you go again, foaming at the mouth and yelling and screaming about how right you are and how wrong anyone who disagrees with you is. Part of me kind of hoped you were only this way about religion... I see I was wrong to hope. Oh well, at least you're consistent.

And yes, I can see why you're single. No one in their right mind will have you, as deranged as your view of reality is.

Perhaps his view of reality is deranged....., but your willingness to accept what the system pushes so easily is equally deranged. Everyone agrees that having no car insurance is wrong, no question. The disagreement lies in what to do about it. You say simply accept the fact that we all should pay for it, get over it and go on. Thats really a cop out and the easy solution to every problem out there. The more difficult answer lies in some enforcement action that is actually practical. There are things that could be done, but nobody wants to make any decisions that will offend anyone or cost them votes in the next election. And most solutions would be politically insensitive to the poor foreigner who was just trying to get to work. I guess what Im trying to say is that if this country doesnt start waking up and doing things with a little more common sense and forget their precious little sensibilities, there will be big problems ahead. You see it here with car insurance, nationally with health insurance. Where will it stop?

 

[Baja28]

Ok you drone on and on about the law, how about you do a little research before making a fool of yourself? There are two states that do not require insurance. This is why you pay uninsured motorists! To protect YOU, not give them insurance. It really isn't difficult to understand. So if a driver from either of the 2 states below hits you, there is no insurance law to enforce. Now you were saying???

No, all states do not require car insurance but they do require financial responsibility to operate a vehicle on the roadway. While not all states require drivers to buy liability insurance to show financial responsibility, 48 states (plus Washing DC) do.

These states do not have compulsory auto insurance liability laws:

1. New Hampshire
2. Wisconsin

Do all states require car insurance??

 

[Baja28]

Case in point: Take the tags, the car and sell it, fine their employer (you know they have one and they were heading to work). Why should you're insurance pay for it?
And how about this lie: Your insurance company says they won't raise your premium for an uninsured driver accident right? A claim is a claim. Watch your premium in the near future. Someone has to pay for the damage. It won't be the illegals...maybe Irish_Babe would like to help you pay for them???

You must really be a mental midget. Fine the employer?

 

[EmptyTimCup]

Where the heck did you get that idea that I don't know what it's for??? I know full well that it covers them hitting me but why the heck should I pay for them?!! They should not drive; plain & simple! You & I and others have to pay, they should too or not drive.

yeah like that is going to stop criminals ......


if that were the case there would be no Rape, Murders or Robberies ....


Because that is Illegal


You Might Want to Switch to Decaf ...........

 

[EmptyTimCup]

If you do, you will also be driving on dead tags shortly after dropping that insurance.

unfortunately the stickers do not automatically expire when that happens

 

[stoppingby]

I have a '94 Honda Civic that had given me a lot of mechanical problems and seldom driven. I decided a year or so ago to drop the uninsured motorists because I knew the car wasn't worth that much if it got damaged/totalled so I didn't care. I used my other vehicles. Well...

How I wish I hadn't done that!! A neighbor had a neck injury and let his 14-year-old daughter move their vehicle back and forth in their driveway (for some odd reason) and she popped the clutch and the truck rolled down to my carport knocking some items over and dropped onto the car. The guy doesn't have insurance nor the cash to pay for the damage.

I never expected that to happen. How I wish I'd kept the uninsured motorists.

 

[ItalianScallion]

There you go again, foaming at the mouth and yelling and screaming about how right you are and how wrong anyone who disagrees with you is. Part of me kind of hoped you were only this way about religion... I see I was wrong to hope. Oh well, at least you're consistent.
And yes, I can see why you're single. No one in their right mind will have you, as deranged as your view of reality is.

Sorry if you still can't see reality. Just keep drinking the kool aid...

Perhaps his view of reality is deranged....., but your willingness to accept what the system pushes so easily is equally deranged. Everyone agrees that having no car insurance is wrong, no question. The disagreement lies in what to do about it. You say simply accept the fact that we all should pay for it, get over it and go on. Thats really a cop out and the easy solution to every problem out there. The more difficult answer lies in some enforcement action that is actually practical. There are things that could be done, but nobody wants to make any decisions that will offend anyone or cost them votes in the next election. And most solutions would be politically insensitive to the poor foreigner who was just trying to get to work. I guess what Im trying to say is that if this country doesnt start waking up and doing things with a little more common sense and forget their precious little sensibilities, there will be big problems ahead. You see it here with car insurance, nationally with health insurance. Where will it stop?

She and other puppets are why we have to pay for it today. Very few people have the brains & backbone that is needed to end this governments tyranny over us. Thanks for being one of the few intelligent ones on here.

Ok you drone on and on about the law, how about you do a little research before making a fool of yourself? There are two states that do not require insurance. This is why you pay uninsured motorists! To protect YOU, not give them insurance. It really isn't difficult to understand. So if a driver from either of the 2 states below hits you, there is no insurance law to enforce. Now you were saying???

MPD??? Are you drinking what IrishEyes is drinking??? Never mind. Just go on doing whatever O'Malley tells you but recheck your information again.

You must really be a mental midget. Fine the employer?

I'll type slowly just for you:
They are illegal.
If they are employed, their employer is guilty of allowing them to work. Still too hard for you?

I have a '94 Honda Civic that had given me a lot of mechanical problems and seldom driven. I decided a year or so ago to drop the uninsured motorists because I knew the car wasn't worth that much if it got damaged/totalled so I didn't care. I used my other vehicles. Well...
How I wish I hadn't done that!! A neighbor had a neck injury and let his 14-year-old daughter move their vehicle back and forth in their driveway (for some odd reason) and she popped the clutch and the truck rolled down to my carport knocking some items over and dropped onto the car. The guy doesn't have insurance nor the cash to pay for the damage. I never expected that to happen. How I wish I'd kept the uninsured motorists.

Another kool aid drinker! According to the 3 stooges on here YOU should pay for the uninsured! So shut up and pay it!
He has a house?
He has money?
If you won't take him to court then why are you on here griping about it? Just pay the money like the Maryland Gestapo wants you to. It's YOUR fault he hit your carport (according to the 3)...well, it must be since you should not have stopped paying for him to have no insurance. See their logic?
Dear God; This is unreal!
He has no insurance.
He lets hit underaged daughter move a vehicle that she shouldn't touch.
He has no money to pay for the damages.
You don't take him to court.
You think you should have paid extra for HIS mistake....
WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPENING TO MY COUNTRY?????????????????

 

[SEABREEZE 1957]

Uninsured motorists plague state | A-J AUSTIN BUREAU

For Texas lawmakers and the insurance industry, the high number of uninsured drivers is worrisome because it is estimated that the state's insured drivers pay an extra $1 billion annually to protect themselves from those who are uninsured.

In Texas, millions of motorists circumvent the financial responsibility law by using counterfeit proof-of-insurance cards or just obtain a month's coverage so they can renew their license plates, Smithee, Hagins and others said.

I don't think law abiding citizens should have to pay to for non-law abiding citizens who drive without insurance.

The nuances of how uninsured motorist coverage works is difficult for many personal injury victims to get their minds around because it is counterintuitive. The nutshell is this: if the at-fault driver either does not have insurance or has low levels of coverage, your own insurance company will step in and basically take the place of the insurance company for the at-fault driver, including paying any settlement or judgment but also defending the case against your personal injury claim.

Why does your insurance company pay you for your personal injuries when the at-fault driver is uninsured or underinsured? Your insurance company must pay on your personal injury claim because they have a contractual obligation to you to pay out the damages you would have recovered had the negligent driver had the same insurance policy that you have. So the claim is actually a breach of contract claim against your insurance company for the failure to pay what you and your accident lawyers believe is the fair value of your case.

I think the only thing that can be done is to write your to your representatives in Anapolis and suggest a better way to enforce the the mandatory insurance law on uninsured motorists. It's a sticky situation.

 

[Baja28]

Ok so I've been paying this as long as I've been paying for insurance but my dumb ass just now realized it. You guys stop with the facts because I'm too stupid to read.

Yep, everybody else is wrong and you're the only one right. Oh and thanks for admitting you ignore those pesky facts.