What An American
- Thread starter SxyPrincess
- Start date
Frank
Chairman of the Board
You know, I'm not sure I have any idea why you bring up law and freedom. Technically, laws restrict freedom. Saying without law, there is no freedom is like saying without light, you have no darkness.
Personally, I think people should be allowed to do whatever they want with the flag. I know it bothers people. The Confederate flag "bothers" people. The name "Redskins" bothers people. Even allowing a KKK parade in DC - "bothers" people. They feel it insults them. I equate them all the same, as basically people thinking they ought to enforce what does and doesn't offend them.
In other venues, this is called "politically correct".
I don't think freedom means being protected from being offended, but we are fast approaching a day when your average American won't tolerate it. They think laws are there to protect their little feelings. I don't. Laws like those have no business being made.
Excuse me, but I need to go dump some tea into the harbor....
Personally, I think people should be allowed to do whatever they want with the flag. I know it bothers people. The Confederate flag "bothers" people. The name "Redskins" bothers people. Even allowing a KKK parade in DC - "bothers" people. They feel it insults them. I equate them all the same, as basically people thinking they ought to enforce what does and doesn't offend them.
In other venues, this is called "politically correct".
I don't think freedom means being protected from being offended, but we are fast approaching a day when your average American won't tolerate it. They think laws are there to protect their little feelings. I don't. Laws like those have no business being made.
Excuse me, but I need to go dump some tea into the harbor....
Frank,
Without laws all you have is anarchy, with anarchy is there freedom? Maybe in the purest sense of utopia there is freedom, but without laws there will always be someone doing something to someone else. If you are the one having it done to you I doubt if you would feel as if you are free.
You might think people should be able to do whatever they want with the flag, but that isn't the case. Our legislature has determined that the flag is entitled to respect and have set out the acceptable treatment within our nation’s laws.
Maybe it is because I dressed in a uniform for a number of years and was taught to understand what the flag means to those that have served, fought, and fallen. It was a pleasure and honor to protect it and our way of life. This could be why I hold it in such high regard. Maybe it is because we don’t share equal experiences that we see this differently.
I also don’t think many know that our nation considers the flag as a living thing. Maybe if more people understood that desecration wouldn’t be as easy to do. Maybe instead of dumping some tea you might join a branch of the services and see what it is like to pledge your life to defend something others would easily destroy. It might give you a new perspective.
Without laws all you have is anarchy, with anarchy is there freedom? Maybe in the purest sense of utopia there is freedom, but without laws there will always be someone doing something to someone else. If you are the one having it done to you I doubt if you would feel as if you are free.
You might think people should be able to do whatever they want with the flag, but that isn't the case. Our legislature has determined that the flag is entitled to respect and have set out the acceptable treatment within our nation’s laws.
Maybe it is because I dressed in a uniform for a number of years and was taught to understand what the flag means to those that have served, fought, and fallen. It was a pleasure and honor to protect it and our way of life. This could be why I hold it in such high regard. Maybe it is because we don’t share equal experiences that we see this differently.
I also don’t think many know that our nation considers the flag as a living thing. Maybe if more people understood that desecration wouldn’t be as easy to do. Maybe instead of dumping some tea you might join a branch of the services and see what it is like to pledge your life to defend something others would easily destroy. It might give you a new perspective.
Frank
Chairman of the Board
Well you may be right about the 'living thing'. I do not see it that way. From my perspective, taking offense at a flag burning to me is like a Muslim taking offense at me dishonoring Allah by eating pork and alcohol. To me it's freedom of expression.
I can't get into honor shown to a symbol. I just can't. To me it might as well be some bizarre religion, like honoring a sacred cow, or to a statue of Buddha. You can respect other's beliefs, but in my mind, in a free country, you don't HAVE TO. So if a Hindu or Buddhist tried to convince me of the wrongs of eating meat or killing a pest, I'd try to respect it, but I'd still do as I please. I would take off my shoes at the home of an Asian, but I don't have to honor the tradition at MY home.
I can't get into honor shown to a symbol. I just can't. To me it might as well be some bizarre religion, like honoring a sacred cow, or to a statue of Buddha. You can respect other's beliefs, but in my mind, in a free country, you don't HAVE TO. So if a Hindu or Buddhist tried to convince me of the wrongs of eating meat or killing a pest, I'd try to respect it, but I'd still do as I please. I would take off my shoes at the home of an Asian, but I don't have to honor the tradition at MY home.
Christy
b*tch rocket
Ken, I don't think it is meant as disrespectful at all. Actually, I'm quite pleased to see it being the latest and greatest fad in clothing (er, well sort of clothing 
) Actually, you see the flag being stuck on every spring/summer fashion, which is great. The way I see it, it's about friggin time! Much better than being pissed and spitted on!
I do have a pretty good story of flag disrespect and actions taken. My friends kid thought he'd be cute and wear a flag as a diaper to school, which he quickly got suspended. Not due to wearing the flag really, but for not adhering to the school dress code. (which torked me) but anyway.... Steve drug his arse over here and gave him a good down and dirty (of about 5 hours tutorial) on what the flag meant, to include hands on training of raising, lowering, and proper folding of the flag.
Steve would make one hell of a Drill Sgt!
) Actually, you see the flag being stuck on every spring/summer fashion, which is great. The way I see it, it's about friggin time! Much better than being pissed and spitted on! I do have a pretty good story of flag disrespect and actions taken. My friends kid thought he'd be cute and wear a flag as a diaper to school, which he quickly got suspended. Not due to wearing the flag really, but for not adhering to the school dress code. (which torked me) but anyway.... Steve drug his arse over here and gave him a good down and dirty (of about 5 hours tutorial) on what the flag meant, to include hands on training of raising, lowering, and proper folding of the flag.
Steve would make one hell of a Drill Sgt!
Christy
b*tch rocket
I almost forgot! I, personally, am totally anal retentive when it comes to respecting and displaying the flag. Can't have the flag up at night unless there's a light on it, and I've got an old flag sitting here properly folded awaiting the proper burning of it. It's like one of those Karma things for me.
Frank,
“Well you may be right about the 'living thing'.” Here is the link to the section of US Code that covers “Respect for flag”. http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/4/8.html the subparagraph that states it is living is (j). It says, “The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing.”
You can’t honor a symbol, even if it represents the nation that allows you to live as you do. I don’t know, maybe I am just a little too gung-ho or a little too patriotic to see that symbol being used other then intended. The fact that Congress took the effort to make laws describing what is not acceptable re-emphasizes the difference between this symbol and others like those you mentioned. We just obviously see this from a different point of view and I’ll leave it at that.
Christy,
The fact that it isn't meant as a disrespectful act doesn't mean that it isn't. I think that most people just don't know any better.
BTW that was an excellent story about Steve, I did something similar years ago with a couple of junior officers that scampered indoors upon hearing the bugle begin "retreat”. After the flag had been lowered I went into the building I saw them duck into and brought it to their attention. Upon which I was threatened with an Article 15 for an Article 89 violation (disrespect toward a superior commissioned officer, for those unfamiliar). I told them to bring it on and they then proceeded to really chew me out. At that time an old crusty “Full Bird” who had heard the discussion stepped in (I had also served with him on several deployments and had a good rapport with him). Needless to say when he heard the whole story there were two sad looking LTs with their tales tucked between their legs that became a regular part of the “retreat” ceremony for 30 days straight.
“Well you may be right about the 'living thing'.” Here is the link to the section of US Code that covers “Respect for flag”. http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/4/8.html the subparagraph that states it is living is (j). It says, “The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing.”
You can’t honor a symbol, even if it represents the nation that allows you to live as you do. I don’t know, maybe I am just a little too gung-ho or a little too patriotic to see that symbol being used other then intended. The fact that Congress took the effort to make laws describing what is not acceptable re-emphasizes the difference between this symbol and others like those you mentioned. We just obviously see this from a different point of view and I’ll leave it at that.
Christy,
The fact that it isn't meant as a disrespectful act doesn't mean that it isn't. I think that most people just don't know any better.
BTW that was an excellent story about Steve, I did something similar years ago with a couple of junior officers that scampered indoors upon hearing the bugle begin "retreat”. After the flag had been lowered I went into the building I saw them duck into and brought it to their attention. Upon which I was threatened with an Article 15 for an Article 89 violation (disrespect toward a superior commissioned officer, for those unfamiliar). I told them to bring it on and they then proceeded to really chew me out. At that time an old crusty “Full Bird” who had heard the discussion stepped in (I had also served with him on several deployments and had a good rapport with him). Needless to say when he heard the whole story there were two sad looking LTs with their tales tucked between their legs that became a regular part of the “retreat” ceremony for 30 days straight.