What to do about illegal immigrants?

[Sharon]

Breaking the law - They don't care

Originally posted by SmallTown
If their time here started out with breaking the law...

Identity theft can cause major problems for some poor soul who is trapped in a nightmare of mess.

You should see some of the lines at the immigration offices...it's not as simple as some people make it sound.

BFD, then they can change it when the become legal.

 

[frogger]

Sharon,
You took the least of my points and quoted me just on that. I probably shouldn't have listed that reason first, but the whole process is extremely inefficient. That was the point I was trying to make. The comment about waiting in line was more of a complaint than anything.

 

[vraiblonde]

Immigration process is extremely long drawn out, and inefficient process.

Is it worse than, say, getting your ear cut off for not praying the way your government wants you to?

 

[SamSpade]

Originally posted by SmallTown

2) If we know there are 7 million here illegally, we must know who they are (or do we have a couple of high school dropouts in a room making up numbers again?), so take care of them.

Making up numbers - jeez. You really don't know anything about statistics or sampling or - well anything, do you? Hey, when they tell you that 2 billion people watched the Super Bowl - you think they took down names? When they tell you that 55,725 people were at Camden Yards yesterday, you think someone was counting noses at the gates?

Those estimates come from the Census, and no, they don't know their names.

 

[Dymphna]

Originally posted by SmallTown
2) If we know there are 7 million here illegally, we must know who they are (or do we have a couple of high school dropouts in a room making up numbers again?), so take care of them.

We know these numbers from 2 main sources:

1. Immigration status is not required for some government programs, one of these being education. But the administrators of those programs are not allowed to notify INS b/c it would discourage participation in those programs, most of which are designed to help children, who may have been born here, and in any case, cannot control their immigration status.

2. The census, which promised illegals that if they'd fill out the forms, they wouldn't be turned in. The reason for this is because the gov't needs as accurate a count as possible because the numbers affect funding for the above mentioned programs, as well as funding for highways and other things the illegals use too.

I can't say I agree with not turning people in, but I understand the reasons. I do agree that these people need to be either kicked out, or if they have compelling reasons to be here, forced to get their papers in order.

 

[Sharon]

Originally posted by frogger
Sharon,
You took the least of my points and quoted me just on that. I probably shouldn't have listed that reason first, but the whole process is extremely inefficient.

Efficient or not, that's the way it is done. Because they don't like the process is not reason enough to break the law; easier as it may be. The rest of us serfs have laws and processes to follow that we don't necessarily like but we follow them. They can immigrate legally, become citizens, run for office and change things. But some really don't care; they send the money earned back home while using whatever government programs they can get to along here.

 

[SmallTown]

census numbers?? You actually think that someone who comes here illegally is going to care one way ar another about the census? Sheesh, pretty scary when we base our knowledge on the accountability of criminals.

 

[SamSpade]

Originally posted by SmallTown
census numbers?? You actually think that someone who comes here illegally is going to care one way ar another about the census? Sheesh, pretty scary when we base our knowledge on the accountability of criminals.

The Census does not get all their data from forms filled out by illegals. That's not the only way to know how many people there are, ok? Just stick to stuff you know.

 

[SmallTown]

Originally posted by SamSpade
The Census does not get all their data from forms filled out by illegals. That's not the only way to know how many people there are, ok? Just stick to stuff you know.

So how else does the census get it's data for illegal immigrants? If it isn't from the illegals themselves feeling out paperwork, then we must know who they are. So toss them

 

[SxyPrincess]

Originally posted by cmcdanal
1. Immigration status is not required for some government programs, one of these being education. But the administrators of those programs are not allowed to notify INS b/c it would discourage participation in those programs, most of which are designed to help children, who may have been born here, and in any case, cannot control their immigration status.

Sorry, but you're wrong. If an "Alien" is studying in the United States, they need to be in valid F-1 status. Typically, there is no expiration other than D/S listed on the individuals I-94 card. Once they have completed studies, they must either change status, or ship back!

 

[Sharon]

So explain how MD just decided to give illegals who attented 3 years of high school in-state college tuition?

 

[SxyPrincess]

Originally posted by Sharon
So explain how MD just decided to give illegals who attented 3 years of high school in-state college tuition?

On March 16, NM Gov. Richardson signed a bill allowing immigrant residents to obtain driver's licenses if they furnish an IRS-issued individual tax-identification number instead of a Social Security number. The Maryland legislature recently sent to the governor's desk a bill allowing resident immigrant students to pay in-state college tuition if they have attended a high school in the state for at least three years and earned a diploma or its equivalent. To view CPA's Immigrant Rights policy summaries, model legislation and related resources, click here.

 

[Dymphna]

Originally posted by SxyPrincess
Sorry, but you're wrong. If an "Alien" is studying in the United States, they need to be in valid F-1 status. Typically, there is no expiration other than D/S listed on the individuals I-94 card. Once they have completed studies, they must either change status, or ship back!

I was refering to public school, not those who specifically came here to go to college. Colleges must report illegals if they know about them. I was referring to elementary through High School. If there are kids in the community, under 16, the Bd of Ed will get them and put them in school regardless of immigration status. Also, I used to work for Social Services and there are some cases when illegals can get medical assistance from the government.

 

[Dymphna]

Originally posted by SxyPrincess
On March 16, NM Gov. Richardson signed a bill allowing immigrant residents to obtain driver's licenses if they furnish an IRS-issued individual tax-identification number instead of a Social Security number. The Maryland legislature recently sent to the governor's desk a bill allowing resident immigrant students to pay in-state college tuition if they have attended a high school in the state for at least three years and earned a diploma or its equivalent. To view CPA's Immigrant Rights policy summaries, model legislation and related resources, click here.

The link doesn't make the distinction between legal and illegal immigrants. The MD state law recently vetoed specifically mentioned ILLEGAL immigrants, which is why it was vetoed.

 

[SxyPrincess]

Originally posted by cmcdanal
The link doesn't make the distinction between legal and illegal immigrants. The MD state law recently vetoed specifically mentioned ILLEGAL immigrants, which is why it was vetoed.

Taken from the Washington Post.

 

[SamSpade]

Originally posted by SmallTown
So how else does the census get it's data for illegal immigrants? If it isn't from the illegals themselves feeling out paperwork, then we must know who they are. So toss them

Do you go to school to study idiocy? If Wal-Mart knows they had 523 customers yesterday - does that mean they know their names, and where they live? If I can tell you that at any given time, there are 11 illegal aliens driving on the Beltway, do you think I know what they're driving?

I JUST told you they don't get their numbers by papers that illegals have filled out, but that they otherwise know how many there are. Can you figure out the rest, or do you practice stupidity in your off line time, too?

 

[SmallTown]

Originally posted by SamSpade
Do you go to school to study idiocy? If Wal-Mart knows they had 523 customers yesterday - does that mean they know their names, and where they live? If I can tell you that at any given time, there are 11 illegal aliens driving on the Beltway, do you think I know what they're driving?

I JUST told you they don't get their numbers by papers that illegals have filled out, but that they otherwise know how many there are. Can you figure out the rest, or do you practice stupidity in your off line time, too?

No, they don't have thier names, but you are comparing apples and oranges. Your little comparisons are cute, but add nothing to the discussion at all.
The fact is, we DO know who many of the illegals are, and we do nothing about it. Be it from "employers" who do not report it, schools that don't report it, medical facilites who don't report it. You can't have 7 million people lounging around by the pool all day with no source of income, no means of transportation, no medial attention, etc. We do know many exist, and who they are. We just don't take the effort to get rid of them.

 

[SamSpade]

Originally posted by SmallTown
No, they don't have thier names, but you are comparing apples and oranges. Your little comparisons are cute, but add nothing to the discussion at all.
The fact is, we DO know who many of the illegals are, and we do nothing about it. Be it from "employers" who do not report it, schools that don't report it, medical facilites who don't report it. You can't have 7 million people lounging around by the pool all day with no source of income, no means of transportation, no medial attention, etc. We do know many exist, and who they are. We just don't take the effort to get rid of them.

Actually my comparisons are dead on - you go on to indicate several sources who - what is the operative phrase - DO NOT REPORT IT. And that is right. You're a building contractor, you hire some illegal, you don't pay workman's comp or taxes, he gets paid plenty under the table - and - and the INS is supposed to know WHO he is? They don't. Like you said - no one reports it. Maybe you need to define who "we" is.

We DO know that many 'exist'. And it IS true that the INS does not do its job. But the scope of the problem is beyond them at this point. We don't know where they are. We only know the size of the footprint they leave on the country.

 

[SxyPrincess]

Originally posted by SamSpade
Actually my comparisons are dead on - you go on to indicate several sources who - what is the operative phrase - DO NOT REPORT IT. And that is right. You're a building contractor, you hire some illegal, you don't pay workman's comp or taxes, he gets paid plenty under the table - and - and the INS is supposed to know WHO he is? They don't. Like you said - no one reports it. Maybe you need to define who "we" is.

We DO know that many 'exist'. And it IS true that the INS does not do its job. But the scope of the problem is beyond them at this point. We don't know where they are. We only know the size of the footprint they leave on the country.

If YOU want to be CORRECT...maybe you should look up INS and figure out the name has been changed...

 

[SamSpade]

Originally posted by SxyPrincess
If YOU want to be CORRECT...maybe you should look up INS and figure out the name has been changed...

Well what do you know? It was changed back in March. You learn something new every day. My bad.

But somebody needs to tell the Post, the Times, the New York papers and the major news outlets though, because they keep calling it by the old name.