Where is the ACLU???

[Hessian]

This is an outrage! How dare the mayor and Police commissioner open their day in Prayer after a spate of brutal crimes. Now they're gonna get it...watch out you sanctimonius, Bible thumpin, Myth-believers. The ACLU will make sure that the wall of seperation is tall and wide and we'll start with Detroit!!

http://www.freep.com/news/locway/pray6_20040406.htm

What will happen to order? This is a form of intimidation to non-believing public servants! They must be punished in a way to stop them from ever committing such an outrageous act again.

 

[jlabsher]

Hey Hessian, what if you move to WV? The boss is a snake handler god fearing type and they pray & speak in tongues every day. Would you feel comfortable at that job? Would you feel your job was threatened if you didn't fit in and do the same?

 

[Hessian]

Hey, I'm just the messenger...

Seems like we are being hugely inconsistent here.
Kids are being sent home wearing Christian tee-shirts,
Fines levied against students who wished to pray at graduation,
A librarian fired for wearing a cross to work,

The list goes on & on (read David Limbaugh's latest on persecution in America).

So even though the Supreme Court opens in prayer, our senate has a chaplain, the armed forces pay millions in salaries to maintain chaplains, and suddenly Detroit realized how desperate they are in their chaos...they turn to God and where is the ACLU to protect us from an obvious gross violation of Church and state.

There is no wall....when peril is near--it is a mere creation of God hating lawyers & athiests who want to impose the religion of Humanism on the majority. Some people KNOW where to find peace, comfort & justice...and it is NOT in the pen of an ACLU lawyer. Go handle your own snakes.

 

[Christy]

Originally posted by jlabsher
Hey Hessian, what if you move to WV? The boss is a snake handler god fearing type and they pray & speak in tongues every day. Would you feel comfortable at that job? Would you feel your job was threatened if you didn't fit in and do the same?

Enlighten me please. WTF are you talking about?

 

[jlabsher]

I see no problem with opening the court with a prayer, or having one at graduation or "in god we trust" on our filthy luchre or "under god" in our pledge.

But what if that snake handler was named Ashcroft? He has been known to lead prayer services at justice, and of course he is from very fundamentalist roots in the Missourah ozarks, where they still handle snakes during services.

If I was an employee and my boss was very adament about his religion, I would feel threatened if I didn't join in, just because.

There has to be some prevention from coercion in the workplace and school.

 

[tlatchaw]

I'm a little confused on the poll. Is this response supposed to be what we perceive the ACLU position to be, or is it supposed to be what we perceive the correct position to be?

 

[tlatchaw]

Originally posted by jlabsher
I see no problem with opening the court with a prayer, or having one at graduation or "in god we trust" on our filthy luchre or "under god" in our pledge.

But what if that snake handler was named Ashcroft? He has been known to lead prayer services at justice, and of course he is from very fundamentalist roots in the Missourah ozarks, where they still handle snakes during services.

If I was an employee and my boss was very adament about his religion, I would feel threatened if I didn't join in, just because.

There has to be some prevention from coercion in the workplace and school.

Have you never had a boss that had a different faith than you? Did it make you feel threatened if you did? Could you not just pause and wait respectfully during their religious expression?

I can understand your venom (yes, that's a pun on your position ) if the employees are being pushed into following the same religion, but frankly I don't see the coercion. Are these public leaders saying, "You must now bow to our faith!" or are they saying, "Please join me if you will"?

Ever been to a ball game? Did everybody rise and take off their hats for the national anthem? Were those that did not excoriated for a lack of patriotism, or did everybody just move on and get on with life? This seems like a similar situation to me.

 

[Christy]

Originally posted by jlabsher
If I was an employee and my boss was very adament about his religion, I would feel threatened if I didn't join in, just because.

Then you're a big wuss (like we didn't know that already ). I've worked with/for plenty of people who are adamant about their religion, I'm just as adamant about my stance on religion, and I don't care if you were Muhammed or the Pope himself, you'd not be able to intimidate me into praying how you pray, or pretending to believe what you believe. :shrug:

 

[jlabsher]

Obviously you are sheep and followers.

If I worked in a place where the boss and suckups got down on their knees and prayed every morning it would creep me out and make me look for another job. BECAUSE if I didn't play along I wouldn't be getting the same promotion opportunity.

 

[ylexot]

How about we reverse the roles...

jlabsher, you are the boss and one of your employees is a snake handler or prays at work. Do you reduce their promotion opportunities because of that?

 

[Christy]

Originally posted by jlabsher
Obviously you are sheep and followers.

If I worked in a place where the boss and suckups got down on their knees and prayed every morning it would creep me out and make me look for another job. BECAUSE if I didn't play along I wouldn't be getting the same promotion opportunity.

What delusional world do you live in? I'm sorry, I have yet to be passed over for any kind of promotion due to having different religious beliefs than my boss, nor have I ever heard of it happening to anyone I know.

I would have to say, you show the traits of a "sheep and a follower" if you must seek out employment with only those of like mind as you. You also quickly follow the mass liberal hysteria and spew verbatum the latest and greatest Bush bashing that's circulating. Not a whole lot of original thought.

There are plenty of things I dislike about Bush, but I'm not retarded enough to vote for this go arounds, democrat selling snake oil to the ignorant masses.

Okay, now that I'm finished digressing here, I'll end this post.

 

[jlabsher]

I have never cared what religion etc anybody follows off the job, it is how well they do the job that gets them promotions, learned that in the military.

It is fear of the slippery slope that right wingers don't understand. If you make prayer legal in schools, workplaces etc. there will be problems, resentment, ostrafication, etc. I've had it happen to me in grade school when I refused to wear religious buttons in class. If you make religion an intregal and condoned part of society you run the risk of becoming the same as the muslim nations you fear and hate.

My wife comes from a muslim country but is a christian. She tells stories of whole communities being offered a new community center, cash to all residents, etc. if they converted from christianity to islam. If you remember, this country was founded by folks who suffered religious persecution and chose not to allow it here.

Our history has tales of religious persecution that should make us wary of state sponsered religion, remember the puritans? Scarlet letters, witch burnings? Can't happen now you say, just look at the crap that one little boobie caused for Janet Jackson, they won't let her exclaim "Jeezuz" on TV anymove, or remember Jimmy the Greek losing his job over his little race remark?

Say you are an unwed mother and get a job for somewhere that frowns on that sort of thing, would you feel comfortable when promotion time came around?

Say you worked for a company that was staunch democrats who bashed Bush daily and gave everybody time off to attend a Kerry rally, would you feel comfortable putting up your Bush sign? Would you fear reprisal, would you think your ideas and suggestions carried the same weight as a member of the "team?"

Judgements about personal issues such as religion, politics or sex don't belong in the workplace or public schools, it should be an individual issue.

 

[ylexot]

Hmmm, where to begin...I guess I'll start at the beginning...

"I have never cared what religion etc anybody follows off the job, it is how well they do the job that gets them promotions, learned that in the military."

Did you need the military to teach you that? If so, your parents didn't do a good job. Do you think that religious people care more about what religion you are than they care about how you do your job?

"It is fear of the slippery slope that right wingers don't understand. If you make prayer legal in schools, workplaces etc. there will be problems, resentment, ostrafication, etc. I've had it happen to me in grade school when I refused to wear religious buttons in class. If you make religion an intregal and condoned part of society you run the risk of becoming the same as the muslim nations you fear and hate."

Prayer has been legal in schools, workplaces, etc. since the founding of this country. Religion has been an integral and condoned part of this society just as long. Where's the slippery slope? If you want to eliminate religious persecution, make the persecution the target, not the religion. Blacks were (still are by some) persecuted. Should we ban them or make their persecution illegal?

"Our history has tales of religious persecution that should make us wary of state sponsered religion, remember the puritans? Scarlet letters, witch burnings? Can't happen now you say, just look at the crap that one little boobie caused for Janet Jackson, they won't let her exclaim "Jeezuz" on TV anymove, or remember Jimmy the Greek losing his job over his little race remark?"

Who's promoting state sponsored religion? State sponsored religion means that the gov't says "this is the religion you will follow". Janet Jackson had nothing to do with religion. That flap was about her breaking societal rules for decency on public airwaves. The Superbowl was not intended to be rated R. Jimmy the Greek lost his job because the company didn't want someone with his views as a spokesperson. Would you want him representing your multi-million-dollar company? Think it would hurt business?

"Say you are an unwed mother and get a job for somewhere that frowns on that sort of thing"

Name that job.

"Say you worked for a company that was staunch democrats who bashed Bush daily and gave everybody time off to attend a Kerry rally, would you feel comfortable putting up your Bush sign? Would you fear reprisal, would you think your ideas and suggestions carried the same weight as a member of the "team?"

Yes and yes.

"Judgements about personal issues such as religion, politics or sex don't belong in the workplace or public schools, it should be an individual issue."

Wow! I agree. As would most people. Maybe your perceptions are a bit slanted. The people that don't agree are the ones I wouldn't want to work for/with anyway.

 

[vraiblonde]

JLab, people like YOU are the slippery slope, not Republicans or Christians. Because some government workers pray after a tragedy, you've decided that means employers everywhere will DEMAND employees follow their religion. You've also decided it means the GOVERNMENT and JOHN ASHCROFT will start throwing non-Christians in prison.

"State-sponsored religion" is the biggest crock of sh*t the Dems have ever come up with. There is no such thing as "state-sponsored religion" in the United States, nor will there ever be. Those are MUSLIM countries you're thinking of, sweetie pie, not America (where our Constitution specifically forbids the establishment of religion).

So quit crying, Chicken Little, and come up with something better to hate America over.

 

[jlabsher]

Vrai, quit listening to Rush and cleaning your gun at the same time. Obviously YOU don't know what you are talking about. YOUR president wants to give federal money to tax-exempt churches so they can care for po' folk. Of course the good baptists will give lots of money to single moms - NOT. The same administration is calling almost every muslim group a terrorist organization and throwing their members, US citizens, in jail without trial. The justice secretary holds prayer meetings in his office daily and stopped a homosexual group from meeting on company time. (of course if they were christian homosexuals remains to be seen).

The slippery slope exists and it is called the bush administration.

 

[ceo_pte]

Re: Hey, I'm just the messenger...

Originally posted by Hessian
Seems like we are being hugely inconsistent here.
Kids are being sent home wearing Christian tee-shirts,
Fines levied against students who wished to pray at graduation,
A librarian fired for wearing a cross to work,

The list goes on & on (read David Limbaugh's latest on persecution in America).

So even though the Supreme Court opens in prayer, our senate has a chaplain, the armed forces pay millions in salaries to maintain chaplains, and suddenly Detroit realized how desperate they are in their chaos...they turn to God and where is the ACLU to protect us from an obvious gross violation of Church and state.

There is no wall....when peril is near--it is a mere creation of God hating lawyers & athiests who want to impose the religion of Humanism on the majority. Some people KNOW where to find peace, comfort & justice...and it is NOT in the pen of an ACLU lawyer. Go handle your own snakes.

The ACLJ took up the cross wearing incident and the teacher was reinstated. Go American Center for Law and Justice....

 

[Christy]

Originally posted by jlabsher
Obviously YOU don't know what you are talking about. YOUR president wants to give federal money to tax-exempt churches so they can care for po' folk.

Why is this a bad thing? Churches provide a service to those in need, just as Planned Parenthood provides a service for those in need. It's just a differing of methods of assistance. I realize you believe that churches will only help you if you convert, but that is simply not true and the logic in your thinking would lead me to believe that those who go to planned parenthood must sign a devotional vow to NOW.

Originally posted by jlabsher
Of course the good baptists will give lots of money to single moms - NOT.

Actually, they do. I know of many churches, to include Baptist churches that provide an enormous amount of assistance to single mothers and their children. Places to live, assistance with rent, financial assistance for utilites, groceries etc... Heck, the Catholic Church runs a battered women's shelter right up in Hughesville. :shrug: You sir need to open your eyes, get out more and see what your local churches are involved in.

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by jlabsher
Vrai, quit listening to Rush and cleaning your gun at the same time.

And you, sir, can quit listening to Barbra Streisand and hugging trees.

The same administration is calling almost every muslim group a terrorist organization

That's because they are - duh. What do you want him to call them - freedom fighters?

YOUR president wants to give federal money to tax-exempt churches so they can care for po' folk.

That's a much better idea than what YOUR President wanted to do, which was tax the rest of us through the roof so we can provide a decent welfare check to criminals, deadbeats and lunatics.

The justice secretary holds prayer meetings in his office daily and stopped a homosexual group from meeting on company time.

So what? Please explain to me why you think a homosexual group should be able to hold meetings on company time?

Of course the good baptists will give lots of money to single moms - NOT.

Here's where your bigotry comes into play. The churches give money, food and help to all kinds of people - unwed mothers, former prostitutes, former drug addicts. They don't discriminate - if you need help, they'll give it to you. Several DC soup kitchens are run by area churches and they refuse you a meal if you're not "like them".

Shows what you know, which is NOTHING! HA!

 

[jlabsher]

Would the catholic church help pay for an abortion with that federal money?

 

[ceo_pte]

Originally posted by Christy
Why is this a bad thing? Churches provide a service to those in need, just as Planned Parenthood provides a service for those in need. It's just a differing of methods of assistance. I realize you believe that churches will only help you if you convert, but that is simply not true and the logic in your thinking would lead me to believe that those who go to planned parenthood must sign a devotional vow to NOW.



Actually, they do. I know of many churches, to include Baptist churches that provide an enormous amount of assistance to single mothers and their children. Places to live, assistance with rent, financial assistance for utilites, groceries etc... Heck, the Catholic Church runs a battered women's shelter right up in Hughesville. :shrug: You sir need to open your eyes, get out more and see what your local churches are involved in.

That's right Christy... That is the way it's suppose to work. If the churches and communities could support the 'down-on-their-luck' folk then the government wouldn't/shouldn't have to. Our taxes would be alot less then...