Why are we supposed to hate Russia anyway?

[vraiblonde]

That's a real question.

I remember the Cold War and Russia was supposed to invade us and kill us all, but is Putin talking about doing that and I just missed it? Why exactly is Russia our enemy as opposed to any other dictator shithole? Hell, UKRAINE is a corrupt dictator shithole. I'd think China would be our biggest threat. Iran threatens us all the time. I haven't heard of Russia threatening us in probably 40 years.

Can anyone tell me?

It can't be about fighting for freedom because Eurotrash countries are Orwellian nightmares and they're considered an ally.

 

[TPD]

Because the leftist media has told us we have to hate russia - putin bad man!

 

[Kyle]

Sadly, Russia might actually be an ally if the Europeans and the MIC hadn’t thrown a monkey wrench into the idea of Russia, eventually, becoming a NATO member in the future.

Putin made an offhand comment in front of others, back in the early 2000s, to the effect of looking forward to becoming a part of NATO.

Immediately, all the Eurotards started screaming, bloody murder, instead of looking at it as a positive sign.

more evidence that they prefer power and conflict over peace and prosperity.

 

[SamSpade]

I don't recall a situation where anyone realistically thought that Russia would INVADE, unless it's a movie called Red Dawn. Logistically it's always hard to invade a large country and have any hope of maintaining control.

They have been our adversary since 1949 because they have nukes - and missiles pointed at us. And more of them than anyone else, including us. With more megatonnage than ours.

Throughout the Cold War, they opposed us, virtually enslaved the part of Europe they didn't get kicked out of and tried to expand their influence in the Middle East, in Africa, in Central America and Southeast Asia. If we were on one side, you could just about guarantee they were on the other side, and supplying them with tanks, planes, missiles and armament.

The Cold War was more or less a proxy war with the Soviet Union.

The Soviet Union dissolved with Gorbachev - and the separate republics went their way. But the Russian PEOPLE consider Gorbachev a traitor and very much want all those countries BACK. They want the Baltic states back, although they're all in NATO now, so that's off the table - for now.

China and Russia are the founders of BRIC - whose purpose is to topple our position at the top of the food chain.

Russia actively destabilizes nations and parts of nations - they have succeeded with South Ossetia and Abkhazia, but I know they encouragining native Russians to move into the Baltic states - their rationale is that Russians belong with Russia. The very same excuse they invaded Ukraine - and the same reason Hitler invaded Austria and the Sudetenland.

No, I don't trust them. If Zelenskyy had ANYTHING right yesterday, it's that you cannot make an agreement with Russia without the means to enforce it, because they will violate any agreement when they please.

 

[SamSpade]

Sadly, Russia might actually be an ally if the Europeans and the MIC hadn’t thrown a monkey wrench into the idea of Russia, eventually, becoming a NATO member in the future.

Putin made an offhand comment in front of others, back in the early 2000s, to the effect of looking forward to becoming a part of NATO.

Immediately, all the Eurotards started screaming, bloody murder, instead of looking at it as a positive sign.

more evidence that they prefer power and conflict over peace and prosperity.

I don't see this - NATO was formed to halt the advance of Commuism in Europe.
Once the Soviet Union formed the Warsaw Pact -in response - it became a defensive alliance AGAINST Russia.

The idea of an alliance exists to protect the members - fight one of us, fight all of us.
Somehow, I don't see Russia working within that framework.

 

[Kyle]

I don't see this - NATO was formed to halt the advance of Commuism in Europe.
Once the Soviet Union formed the Warsaw Pact -in response - it became a defensive alliance AGAINST Russia.

The idea of an alliance exists to protect the members - fight one of us, fight all of us.
Somehow, I don't see Russia working within that framework.

As long as the Russians and the Chinese were at odds to some degree, there might’ve been a Viability. If they’ve been encouraged to work towards, a future, alliance saner heads might have prevailed. There were still a few in Russia that weren’t Stalin.

Having an X-KGB officer as head of Russia makes this completely impossible anymore.

 

[kwillia]

No, I don't trust them. If Zelenskyy had ANYTHING right yesterday, it's that you cannot make an agreement with Russia without the means to enforce it, because they will violate any agreement when they please.

So we walk away and let Putin have Ukraine because he’s going to take it away. Or we get a stake in the game that pays for itself as a crap shoot.

 

[SamSpade]

As long as the Russians and the Chinese were at odds to some degree, there might’ve been a Viability.

That was a thing for decades - and Nixon was credited with playing the "China Card". Once we opened up connection with China, the red scare that the Russians feared became real. But at that time, China was a customer. Their economy wasn't even close to competing with ours.

If they’ve been encouraged to work towards, a future, alliance saner heads might have prevailed. There were still a few in Russia that weren’t Stalin.

I had a roommate of mine who worked for Voice of America in the 70's and 80's. I lost touch with him after that. He said the MOST common thing Russians would ask him was - "why does America want war with Russia?". The people were sold a message that we were always looking to destroy them.

When we went to adopt there - we were told what we've heard many times - Russia is a Third World nation - with nukes.
I think I've heard pundits call them "a gas station - with nukes". Their nukes and their oil is the only reason anyone listens to them.

Having an X-KGB officer as head of Russia makes this completely impossible anymore.

And yet - the Russian people do absolutely love him. Their culture admires having a mean sonofabitch in charge. They despised Yeltsin, who had the likelihood - if he weren't a drunken buffoon - to transform Russia. Putin wants to be Brezhnev again.

 

[SamSpade]

So we walk away and let Putin have Ukraine because he’s going to take it away. Or we get a stake in the game that pays for itself as a crap shoot.

I can't see us stopping him completely - no matter what, part of Ukraine is lost. We simply have NO leverage there. Nor does Europe.
I think if we have skin in the game, Russia will think again if American business gets involved.

I think I see that an agreement will be that Russia keeps most of the land it currently controls. That - to Russia - is a reasonable compromise. What they WANT is the entire coutnry, even though they currently control probably the most valuable part. It would be like, Ukraine is the Eastern US, and Russia has the Northeast. Keeping what they have can be justified to the people of Russia as a "win".

A prosperous Ukraine would be the best way to protect them without being part of NATO.

In the short term - Europe is going to have to step up and find a way to stop Russia, because if they take it over, then Russia is basically at their back door. It also paves the way for Russia to take over Moldova, which has a similar situtation that Ukraine has - a region that allies with Moscow and wants independence from Moldova.

 

[vraiblonde]

Their culture admires having a mean sonofabitch in charge.

So does ours (see: Trump). Only a mean SOB can keep another mean SOB in line. So I feel confident when Trump scoffs at the idea of Putin reneging on any peace deals. Putin wasn't a problem when Trump was President; Putin likes weak leaders he can bully (like Democrats). Those same weak leaders who clutch their pearls when Trump wants to build a transparent relationship with Russia.

 

[Grumpy]

 

[kwillia]

So does ours (see: Trump). Only a mean SOB can keep another mean SOB in line. So I feel confident when Trump scoffs at the idea of Putin reneging on any peace deals. Putin wasn't a problem when Trump was President; he likes weak leaders he can bully (like Democrats). Those same weak leaders who clutch their pearls when Trump wants to build a transparent relationship with Russia.

Well, we almost had to take him on with big bowls of word salad as our weapon!

 

[vraiblonde]

In the short term - Europe is going to have to step up and find a way to stop Russia, because if they take it over, then Russia is basically at their back door. It also paves the way for Russia to take over Moldova, which has a similar situtation that Ukraine has - a region that allies with Moscow and wants independence from Moldova.

Honestly, none of that makes me mad. Europe is its own worst enemy and it's time for them to get to the FO part. I don't see them as US allies. They're a globalist cabal on the take with no oversight. We've given them WAY more than they've ever given us and all they've ever done is criticize us. Look at how they're behaving now with this Trump/Zelenskyy dust up.

 

[vraiblonde]

Well, we almost had to take him on with big bowls of word salad as our weapon!

I feel like anyone who voted for Kamala Harris should never be allowed to vote again.

 

[Kyle]

I feel like anyone who voted for Kamala Harris should never be allowed to vote again.

Cut off the oxygen privileges too.

They certainly weren’t expending it on brain cells.

 

[SamSpade]

So does ours (see: Trump).

Probably not what I want to communicate - I mean, leader who is autocratic, does everything - an actual dictator.
These nations see such leaders as "strong". We like strong leaders, but we mean, confident, forceful.

In the Middle East, Africa and Central Asia, many cultures like the idea of leaders shutting down protests and silencing critics - because, well, THOSE people are all troublemakers.

We have a basic rebellious, general distrust of autocrats.

 

[GURPS]

Putin made an offhand comment in front of others, back in the early 2000s, to the effect of looking forward to becoming a part of NATO.

Yep ...

 

[GURPS]

We have a basic rebellious, general distrust of autocrats.

then why are we slobbing Zelenskyys Knob

 

[vraiblonde]

Probably not what I want to communicate - I mean, leader who is autocratic, does everything - an actual dictator.
These nations see such leaders as "strong". We like strong leaders, but we mean, confident, forceful.

In the Middle East, Africa and Central Asia, many cultures like the idea of leaders shutting down protests and silencing critics - because, well, THOSE people are all troublemakers.

We have a basic rebellious, general distrust of autocrats.

Oh, so you mean like what Democrats want.

 

[ontheriver]

So we walk away and let Putin have Ukraine because he’s going to take it away. Or we get a stake in the game that pays for itself as a crap shoot.

Trump tried to get a stake in the game, but Zelensky is a money hungry idiot. And as someone said (maybe my thyme), arrogant. It's not over though. Zelensky will fold. To me though, he can be trusted less than Putin.