Another Surge In A-Stan

[Wishbone]

At what point do we, as Americans, with (perceived) rights , ask ourselves why we're being treated as suspects. Why we must live in fear. Isn;t that sort of them winning? Allowing us to be so fearful that we re-shape what made this country fgreat in the first place?

We shouldn't be. But the ACLU, the Left and those delightful Islamic Front Groups collectively blocked what would stop it.

Instead of checking Achmed, Mohammad and Aziz they're strip searching 85 year old Ms. O'Rielly and 4 year old Kevin Jackson and letting the likely bomb carriers by in the name of Cultural Sensitivity while chanting "Islam is Peace!"

 

[Wishbone]

So explain how the US could/would/should "act like Switzerland:".

I'm all for collecting everyone elses money!

 

[Chris0nllyn]

I don't know what ever made you think you had "privacy" in this or any country. Seriously, what privacy are you talking about?

Our government created and/or modified intelligence gathering infrastructure with little opposition after 9/11. They knew there would be little after the attacks and for all the good that happened after the attacks (in terms of us rallying around the flag, all beign Americans, etc.) that same sentiment, along with fear mongering has trumped legal priviledges this country granted its citizens since the birth of the country.

We all know the Bill of Rights was developed to protect us from the government.

Obviously the largest attack on privacy is also on 4th Amendment. Did we know the govt. spied on its citizens? Some of us probably had a clue, but it was the govt. that came out and said, "hey folks, our bad. We've been spying on you guys without any sort of warrant for years now." It took Snowden to bring it to light that our government was and is spying on us without probable cause, without warrants, and without suspicion.

The DOJ interpretes the 4th Amendment as to allow them to access the records of millions of Americans using only subpoenas. No warrants. As you know, warrants require some sort of probable cause. A subpoena is just the govt. saying "we want that". The DOJ uses this to gather info from Facebook, Yahoo, Microsoft, or Google, then tells those companies they aren't allowed to tell you if, nor how much, info on you the govt. gathered on you. The DOJ even issued a subpoena for things like the Project On Government Oversight's documented abuses at VA facilities.

Our borders used to be on the actual borders. Not until DHS came along and said "nah, the 'border' is actually a 100 mile-wide swath covering 2/3s of the population. They'v eused that interpretation to set up warrantless border patrol checkpoints not on the border.

Government no-fly lists are non-public, and is simply the govt. selecting who is allowed to travel by air. No way for you to know. No way to get off the list. Nothing.

The govt. changed HIPPA rules in 2002 to allow those records to be disclosed for national security purposes.


I often see comments on here about Orwell, Soviet Union, and other totalitarian regimes but we ignore the resemblence of those regimes in the case of the war on terror because it makes us feel better? I just don't agree with that approach.

 

[vraiblonde]

Our government created and/or modified intelligence gathering infrastructure with little opposition after 9/11. They knew there would be little after the attacks and for all the good that happened after the attacks (in terms of us rallying around the flag, all beign Americans, etc.) that same sentiment, along with fear mongering has trumped legal priviledges this country granted its citizens since the birth of the country.

We all know the Bill of Rights was developed to protect us from the government.

Obviously the largest attack on privacy is also on 4th Amendment. Did we know the govt. spied on its citizens? Some of us probably had a clue, but it was the govt. that came out and said, "hey folks, our bad. We've been spying on you guys without any sort of warrant for years now." It took Snowden to bring it to light that our government was and is spying on us without probable cause, without warrants, and without suspicion.

The DOJ interpretes the 4th Amendment as to allow them to access the records of millions of Americans using only subpoenas. No warrants. As you know, warrants require some sort of probable cause. A subpoena is just the govt. saying "we want that". The DOJ uses this to gather info from Facebook, Yahoo, Microsoft, or Google, then tells those companies they aren't allowed to tell you if, nor how much, info on you the govt. gathered on you. The DOJ even issued a subpoena for things like the Project On Government Oversight's documented abuses at VA facilities.

Our borders used to be on the actual borders. Not until DHS came along and said "nah, the 'border' is actually a 100 mile-wide swath covering 2/3s of the population. They'v eused that interpretation to set up warrantless border patrol checkpoints not on the border.

Government no-fly lists are non-public, and is simply the govt. selecting who is allowed to travel by air. No way for you to know. No way to get off the list. Nothing.

The govt. changed HIPPA rules in 2002 to allow those records to be disclosed for national security purposes.


I often see comments on here about Orwell, Soviet Union, and other totalitarian regimes but we ignore the resemblence of those regimes in the case of the war on terror because it makes us feel better? I just don't agree with that approach.

Okay, let's try again:

I don't live in fear. I have never been strip searched at a checkpoint. I have never had my door kicked in by government thugs. Have you? Please enumerate what rights you personally have had violated in the name of security. Be specific. I'm guessing, judging by your hysterical language, that you get strip searched on a daily basis when the jackboots kick in your door, and that you can't even drive to work without being stopped and searched, amirite?

So tell us about it. Make me feel your outrage.

 

[Gilligan]

I'm all for collecting everyone elses money!

Yeah but....the idea being that it will still be there when the depositors want it back. ;-)

It's so silly when people try to cherry pick foreign nations to us as their basis for defining "how the US should be". Pointing to Norway for their cradle-to-grave "free" health care system...Denmark for their practically limitless social safety net..Iceland for their "zero poor or homeless people yet debt free government" achievements...

All totally irrelevant to the US.

 

[vraiblonde]

Do you, Chris, believe you are being spied on? Like, in a real sense? As in, cameras are set up to watch you personally and your phone is tapped with a 24/7 personal monitor who hangs on your every word?

 

[Chris0nllyn]

The only victory that would bring "Actual" tangible peace would be if you could only find a muslim in the encyclopedia.

It may not be sensitive or popular but it is accurate. Wherever that religion resides violence rises and spreads.

It's not accurate at all and opens the door to blame religion for every transgression a believer of that religion achieves.

No, but I do think it's reasonable to insist that they don't blow us up and kill us.

I don't live in fear. I have never been strip searched at a checkpoint. I have never had my door kicked in by government thugs. Have you? Please enumerate what rights you personally have had violated in the name of security. Be specific. I'm guessing, judging by your hysterical language, that you get strip searched on a daily basis when the jackboots kick in your door, and that you can't even drive to work without being stopped and searched, amirite?

So tell us about it. Make me feel your outrage.

"Hysterical language"? Is that what you think I'm doing here?

I want to have a discussion, but I don't want it to be framed a way it's not. See above in my last post for my answers.

Switzerland is an example of a teeny tiny country (8.5 million people) with remarkable natural barriers, a defense force to be reckoned with, and a knack for becoming banker to the world a long time ago. So they have nothing anyone really wants to take and they provide banking services that historically everyone wants to keep around.

So explain how the US could/would/should "act like Switzerland:".

As I mentioned before, not getting tangled up in global conflicts and regime change.

There's no reason we can't be all the things you mentioned.

We shouldn't be. But the ACLU, the Left and those delightful Islamic Front Groups collectively blocked what would stop it.

Instead of checking Achmed, Mohammad and Aziz they're strip searching 85 year old Ms. O'Rielly and 4 year old Kevin Jackson and letting the likely bomb carriers by in the name of Cultural Sensitivity while chanting "Islam is Peace!"

What has the ACLU done to block that?

Unless your contention is that by standing up for the protections this country once held they are blocking the fight against terrorism.

 

[Chris0nllyn]

Do you, Chris, believe you are being spied on?

Yes.

Do you think we're not?

 

[Gilligan]

There's no reason we can't be all the things you mentioned.

eh..what??

 

[vraiblonde]

Iceland for their "zero poor or homeless people yet debt free government" achievements...

Iceland has also eradicated Down Syndrome and other fetal birth defects. By encouraging abortion of less than ideal fetuses. Poof! Problem solved!

Gee, dontcha wish we were more like them?

 

[Gilligan]

Yes.

Do you think we're not?

Just get you summa dis. It works.

 

[Gilligan]

Iceland has also eradicated Down Syndrome and other fetal birth defects. By encouraging abortion of less than ideal fetuses. Poof! Problem solved!

Gee, dontcha wish we were more like them?

Sure.

Oh..and I forgot about their amazing successes with geothermal energy too.

 

[vraiblonde]

Yes.

Do you think we're not?

You think you personally are being spied on? Because you're important enough to have a dedicated spy watching your every move and listening to your every word?

Well, good for you. I'm not that important.

 

[vraiblonde]

"Hysterical language"? Is that what you think I'm doing here?

Pretty much, yes. You are indicating that there is a monitor for every man, woman, and child in this country, watching their every move and listening to their every word. Straight up, that's crazy. There isn't enough manpower for that. You may be important enough to have your own personal spy, but I am not. Nor are most average people. To insist that this is the case is paranoid mental illness, like you see in the movies.

 

[Wishbone]

It's not accurate at all and opens the door to blame religion for every transgression a believer of that religion achieves.

Please... By all means...

Tell me what time period in Islamic History was peaceful and friendly to the infidels?

I'll wait.

 

[Wishbone]

What has the ACLU done to block that?

Unless your contention is that by standing up for the protections this country once held they are blocking the fight against terrorism.

The fight they made against profiling potential risks.

 

[Wishbone]

Gee, dontcha wish we were more like them?

Is there a Marxist gene?

 

[Wishbone]

Well, good for you. I'm not that important.

Oh, I don't know... MR hangs on your every word sometimes!

 

[Chris0nllyn]

Pretty much, yes. You are indicating that there is a monitor for every man, woman, and child in this country, watching their every move and listening to their every word. Straight up, that's crazy. There isn't enough manpower for that. You may be important enough to have your own personal spy, but I am not. Nor are most average people. To insist that this is the case is paranoid mental illness, like you see in the movies.

That's not necessary anymore. Large data centers and database solutions don't require what you stated.

I didn't claim any of what you stated, but because you equate "spying" to movies, you said what you did.

There's enough information out there, parts of which I touched on (and to which you conveniently ignored) for the public to understand they are being spied on by their own government. Most people just don't care.

Please... By all means...

Tell me what time period in Islamic History was peaceful and friendly to the infidels?

I'll wait.

You said all Muslims. Statistically speaking, terrorists make up a small portion of Muslims.

The fight they made against profiling potential risks.

As they should. Just because it doesn't affect you personally doesn't mean it's wrong.

The ACLU also stood up for Nazis' right to free speech. Unlike some folks, it seems the ACLU cares about everyohne's rights. Not just those they disagree with.

 

[Gilligan]

You said all Muslims. Statistically speaking, terrorists make up a small portion of Muslims. .

Statistically speaking, what percentage of currently active terrorists are Muslims?