Base clsosing?

[glhs837]

having NAVAIR and Testing so close together WORKS for the warfighters - that's the point. I don't think the base has ruined anything, but Md relocating section 8 and welfare from Baltimore, PG & monty counties has.

Agreed, for the most part. Sometimes having the "boss" over your shoulder can get in the way, but I think far more often, the testers having direct access to the decision makers and vice-versa makes things easier. I know being able to take a widget directly up to someones desk, or bring them out to the aircraft teaches far more than any power-point ever could.

I know it has changed our formerly sleepy little base forever, and added congestion and facilities issues we never had before, but it's worth it in the long run, the fleet gets a better product for it.

 

[desertrat]

having NAVAIR and Testing so close together WORKS for the warfighters - that's the point. I don't think the base has ruined anything, but Md relocating section 8 and welfare from Baltimore, PG & monty counties has.

I thought the point was to get out of Crystal City.

He is the president, not an emperor. The only threat to PAX or any other base is the next round of BRAC in 2015.

Yep. He can only present a budget, not create one and cuts are not made in specific areas of Defense, just their overall budget.

 

[BernieP]

It is a real possibility that any base could close. Where do you think some of the Pax people came from?

LOL

From facilities that many thought could never be replaced.... so they closed them anyway and simply either moved the facility or just didn't replace what was lost.


Bottom line, any base can be closed. When DoD decides to close PAX, it will be closed, regardless if Steny agrees or not.

While Steny may bring home the bacon for his district, if the administration he supports cuts defense spending, DoD will be forced to re-align and PAX could face the chopping block. It will all come down to economics.

Don't forget, NACWWD sits out in California, a state with more political clout then Steny and the state of Maryland.

 

[BernieP]

having NAVAIR and Testing so close together WORKS for the warfighters - that's the point. I don't think the base has ruined anything, but Md relocating section 8 and welfare from Baltimore, PG & monty counties has.

You forget that Pt. Magu and China Lake provide testing on the left coast.
Not only that but the range capability in the high desert, with both Edwards and China Lake is much more expansive, and protected from encroachment, then the space around Pax River.

Those wind turbines the state of Maryland put off shore are not exactly :tester: freindly. The state of Marylands "Smart Growth" (which is an oxymoron) policy that concentrated development around the base (Lexington Park) is also not a helpful to air operations.

With the Air Force at Edwards and Nellis, it would be cost beneficial to the DoD to move the Navy completely to China Lake and Nevada test ranges.

The Pacific is only a short hop west, probably not much further than the Atlantic is from PAX.

 

[spr1975wshs]

When I was a kid we never thought they'd shut down the Springfield Armory or Westover Air Force Base there in western Massachusetts.

 

[glhs837]

You forget that Pt. Magu and China Lake provide testing on the left coast.
Not only that but the range capability in the high desert, with both Edwards and China Lake is much more expansive, and protected from encroachment, then the space around Pax River.

Those wind turbines the state of Maryland put off shore are not exactly :tester: freindly. The state of Marylands "Smart Growth" (which is an oxymoron) policy that concentrated development around the base (Lexington Park) is also not a helpful to air operations.

With the Air Force at Edwards and Nellis, it would be cost beneficial to the DoD to move the Navy completely to China Lake and Nevada test ranges.

The Pacific is only a short hop west, probably not much further than the Atlantic is from PAX.

Paxs ranges have benefits that China Lake cannot match, same as CL has it's benefits. In fact, they complement each other. For one, climate and airfield altitude are two big differences. Available facilities like the anechoic chamber, and the engineering facilities, and ease of interfacing with other Navy assets, such as fleet assets out of Norfolk. Oceans about 50 miles out from Pax, Norfolk about 100 miles.

Looks like San Diego is almost 300 miles from CL, and the Pacific is almost 150. Differences are almost negligible to jets, but not to helos. Or ships. Lastly, the PMTC has other stuff to do, and getting range time out there can be a challenge. Heck, getting range time here can be also. Would take a gargantuan effort to build the needed infrastructure out there, not to mention Ridgecrest couldnt begin to handle the influx, that desert environment cant support another say 80,000 people, once you add in families and civilian jobs outside the base like dry cleaners and such.

 

[FireBrand]

BRAC will happen again.
The bridge will crumble into the Patuxent.
Tiki Bar will close up forever.
NATC will be skin and bones.
All empty brick and mortar will be Roses Place 3, 4, 5 , 6, .......

 

[CrashTest]

Would take a gargantuan effort to build the needed infrastructure out there, not to mention Ridgecrest couldnt begin to handle the influx, that desert environment cant support another say 80,000 people, once you add in families and civilian jobs outside the base like dry cleaners and such.

Yea - I think that fact alone would make it a no-go. I suppose they could put 80,000 people in barracks like when they built Hoover Dam.

 

[BernieP]

Paxs ranges have benefits that China Lake cannot match, same as CL has it's benefits. In fact, they complement each other. For one, climate and airfield altitude are two big differences. Available facilities like the anechoic chamber, and the engineering facilities, and ease of interfacing with other Navy assets, such as fleet assets out of Norfolk. Oceans about 50 miles out from Pax, Norfolk about 100 miles.

Looks like San Diego is almost 300 miles from CL, and the Pacific is almost 150. Differences are almost negligible to jets, but not to helos. Or ships. Lastly, the PMTC has other stuff to do, and getting range time out there can be a challenge. Heck, getting range time here can be also. Would take a gargantuan effort to build the needed infrastructure out there, not to mention Ridgecrest couldnt begin to handle the influx, that desert environment cant support another say 80,000 people, once you add in families and civilian jobs outside the base like dry cleaners and such.

Facilities can be built, they were at PAX, the antenna farm from Warminister was moved... and other things they just learned to live without after the 94 BRAC.

Then again, the long dreaded purple lab might become a reality - i.e. a joint services facility.

Well as we've heard many a time, folks around here aren't to fond of all the influx and aren't sure the peninsula can handle the influx. But sigh, you assume there would be an influx. Not everyone at the bases that were BRAC'd in the 90's got a job. Some were retired and some just lost their job. Some positions were transferred, some were just dropped. By in large "support" people were not automatically offered their job.

Besides, it's Base Realignment and CLOSURE

Do you all know what the Military Industrial Complex really is? It's not acquisition, it's where the military buys direct for industry, without a lot of oversite. It's were retired Admirals and Generals work for these firms and market their peers. The old boy network is alive and well. Chopping off the civilian work force would not be a problem, in fact it's an agenda that both the large defense contractors and brass would love to see happen.

By the way, did you see today's Enterprise? The PAX RIVER Report. Somerset county wants to build wind farms, those turbines disrupt the radar. Not only that but the east coast corridor is one of the most congested air spaces in the world and PAX River sits right smack dab in the middle. The FAA and the airline industry would love to close off bases like PAX and free up some of those friendly skys.

In summary, PAX can be replaced, people do want to close it for a lot of reasons, and the community is doing it's best to encroach and impede operations.

 

[kurleybrown]

I don't believe Pax is in any danger from closing. The location is more important than most realize because it is at the mouth of the Chesapeake bay. Although unlikely to be needed for defense of an underwater launched attack it is necessary to monitor the waterway and have the capability of an immediate air strike if the US Capital where under attack for any reason. Pax is the only Naval Base that directly protects the waterway that directly leads to the Capital and any President right or left that would think about closing the base would just be painting a huge bullseye on their own home in the event of an attack or war. JIMO

 

[glhs837]

BP, ever been to Ridgecrest or China Lake? The entire town has a population of only 24,000 or so. Which includes the people on the base. And their dependants, and the of base economy to support them. People imagine China Lake as a Pax River in the desert, when it's actually a pretty small facility.

ridgecrest ca - Google Maps

This area, before the influx, was what, almost triple that? And is surrounded by areas that could absorb the overflow.

It could be done, but the infrastructure alone would take a decade to build. Water systems alone would be a huge headache. Where do you find the water to support a sudden quadrupling of the population

China Lake airfield and stuff around it, , 2000 foot scale, not bothering with the base admin building and such. Look at the number and size of the hangars.......three hangars, the largest of which is maybe the size of the HazelRigg hangar

ridgecrest ca - Google Maps

Pax River, same scale....

NAS Patuxent River, Patuxent River, MD - Google Maps

What, nine hangars, almost all of which are double or triple the size of the largest one? Again, yes, you could build new hangars, but that cost, combined the the specialized facilities, you rapidly get right up there, numbers wise.

 

[NorthBeachPerso]

You forget that Pt. Magu and China Lake provide testing on the left coast.
Not only that but the range capability in the high desert, with both Edwards and China Lake is much more expansive, and protected from encroachment, then the space around Pax River.

Those wind turbines the state of Maryland put off shore are not exactly :tester: freindly. The state of Marylands "Smart Growth" (which is an oxymoron) policy that concentrated development around the base (Lexington Park) is also not a helpful to air operations.

With the Air Force at Edwards and Nellis, it would be cost beneficial to the DoD to move the Navy completely to China Lake and Nevada test ranges.

The Pacific is only a short hop west, probably not much further than the Atlantic is from PAX.

Christ, don't talk logic or you'll have people ####ting themselves in the entire three County area.

 

[twinoaks207]

Pfffftttt.....

This comes up every time Steny is up for re-election. I swear, there must be a dedicated staffer to start & handle these rumors each election cycle.

Since it's surfacing so late, Steny must not be very worried about any possible competition for his seat.

 

[smilin]

This comes up every time Steny is up for re-election. I swear, there must be a dedicated staffer to start & handle these rumors each election cycle.

Since it's surfacing so late, Steny must not be very worried about any possible competition for his seat.

EVERY election...

 

[Mikeru]

Arvin Vohra, Libertarian
Arvin Vohra - Libertarian Candidate for Maryland House of Delegates


But no, nobody opposes Steny. Not even Tony.

Wow, didn't even know there was a Libertarian candidate on the ballot... looks like I'll be voting Vohra. He's got no chance of winning, since he won't get the bible thumpers and rednecks of SoMD... not that they seem to matter from what I gather with PG County likely going to Hoyer . But hey, now people won't tell me I don't have the right to complain because I didn't vote.

 

[Bavarian]

Wow, didn't even know there was a Libertarian candidate on the ballot... looks like I'll be voting Vohra. He's got no chance of winning, since he won't get the bible thumpers and rednecks of SoMD... not that they seem to matter from what I gather with PG County likely going to Hoyer . But hey, now people won't tell me I don't have the right to complain because I didn't vote.

Vote for O'Donnell don't split the anti Hoyer/Dem vote! Every Congressman we have had protects the Naval Air Station, he is no better than any other. Just you newbees don't remember Congressman like Baumann, Dyson, Gilchrist. Everyone thought the Station was in danger when SoMD was Gerrymandered into Hoyer's District.

The Naval Air Station will stay after a BRAC, but much of the real work will move away and all that will be left will be the paperpushers at NAVAIR. And getting rid of the Bandits would not be a bad idea. The work should be done by Civil Servants like it was done before.

 

[czygvtwkr]

Agreed, for the most part. Sometimes having the "boss" over your shoulder can get in the way, but I think far more often, the testers having direct access to the decision makers and vice-versa makes things easier..

Hell I know people that sit two desks away that don't talk, another 3500 miles wouldnt make a bit of a difference.

 

[glhs837]

Hell I know people that sit two desks away that don't talk, another 3500 miles wouldnt make a bit of a difference.

I know, I see it all the time too. But for people like me, willing to be the go-between, it makes my life much easier. I can go from the hangar deck to the desk in 5 minutes, and getting a response from the person is much easier when you are at their desk.

 

[BernieP]

Hell I know people that sit two desks away that don't talk, another 3500 miles wouldnt make a bit of a difference.

My daddy had a saying about how much someone would be missed, 'Put your foot in a bucket of water and pull it out, the hole that is left is how much you will be missed".
That means nobody and nothing is irreplaceable. Assuming there is a desire to replace.

Let's get something straight, NAVAIR HQ doesn't really like NAWCAD or NAWCWD, life would be much simpler if they didn't have to deal with the pencil neck geeks.

The "warfighter", as modeled by the guys with scrambled eggs on their hats, don't much like NAVAIR, the acquisition system is seen as an impediment to progress. Not to many years ago an admiral, in fact the commanding officer of said NAVAIR, stated that NAVAIR added no value, that if CNO needed a 10 percent reduction in NAVAIR he would deliver 20.

When push comes to shove don't for a minute think the powers that be won't cut and run.

A lot of people have thought their base would never be closed, it was to vital to national defense. Then it was closed. That is not being a cynic, that is how the world works, that's how it's gone down numerous times before.

The air farce is about the only service that seems to be able to keep bases open, even after they have been closed. Kind of "repurpose" them.
The Navy is another story, you have a surface fleet and submarine service that will contend with the air arm for resources.

 

[NorthBeachPerso]

A big chunk of surface is aviation, though.

The reality is that in-flight testing at PAX has been slowly moved out to Edwards over the last decade or so. The weapons systems used and terrain out there simulate where we've being flying the last several years. In addition, Edwards has a lot fewer restrictions than PAX on testing.