California College Chancellor Wants To Abolish Algebra Requirement, Calls It A ‘Civil Rights Issue’

Clem72

Well-Known Member
that is arrogant of you ....... not all degrees require advanced math

We're not talking about Linear Algebra, or even multi-variable algenbra (often called Algebra II). This is the most basic algebra course the community college can present, equivalent to the one most of us took in elementary. It is indeed basic math, and while you might have been able to live your life without it (you probably also were able to live your life without being able to diagram a sentence or name the state capitals), it is still part of a very basic education.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
This is definitely the way to go. Because, ya' know..... the REAL WORLD makes adjustments for everyone so everybody can get a trophy.... amiright?

There are company leaders, and there are those who clean the toilets. Plenty of both are needed ya' know.... :shrug:

I'm of two opinions on this - one is, my son has severe learning disabilities but has shown he frequently gets hard concepts but has great difficulty demonstrating that he has learned it.
And I know he learns differently - and every year I meet his new teachers and inform them at length what techniques work and especially which ones will be useless.
And some of them listen - and some of them listen politely while quietly hoping I'll disappear, because, you know, how dare I. Me, the world's foremost authority on my son.

That's one opinion - that if one technique doesn't work, find one that does.

But the other is that teachers CANNOT tailor learning individually to each student. They can try, but there's just not enough teachers.
ULTIMATELY - your education is your own responsibility. While a good teacher can inspire and encourage, at some point in life, the only teacher you really have is yourself.
YOU must run the race, read the book, study the details, do the experiment and YOU must learn from failure (since it's rare that anyone learns from success).
As a parent, you are the child's primary teacher - like it or not, you have already taught him the most important things he will ever need to know or do.
Talk. Walk. Listen and behave. Play fair. Honesty. Integrity. Charity. Hygiene. But it's also your job to teach him.
I coach my kids when I know how to. Teach them to throw and catch, how to swim. How to ride a bike. Bait a hook and cast a line. All kinds of things.
My dad taught me math and engineering. Woodworking. History. Poetry. My mom taught me sociology. Music. And humor.

So yeah - teach what works. That's the school's job. If they're failing students, they need to adjust.
However, parents and especially yourself - that's your job.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
This is the most basic algebra course the community college can present, equivalent to the one most of us took in elementary.


Um I left Elementary school in 1978 .... no one was teaching Algebra to 6th graders then
 

Clem72

Well-Known Member
Um I left Elementary school in 1978 .... no one was teaching Algebra to 6th graders then

And I took algebra in 4th grade in '64. So who's anecdote is superior?

Edited to add that I did say "most", not everyone. And I recognize that my school may have been ahead of many because we also took Calculus (for those of us that chose to take it) in our Sophomore or Junior year of HS. I don't think any math was required after geometry. But I just checked online and it says the range seems to be 5th grade to 8th grade depending on the State and what is considered Algebra vs Pre-Algebra (and I assume what is being taught as the minimum in community college is close to Pre-Algebra).
 
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SamSpade

Well-Known Member
Um I left Elementary school in 1978 .... no one was teaching Algebra to 6th graders then


I left it in 1972. What we learned could be called pre-algebra, and we learned it in 8th so as to not need to take it in high school.

On the other hand, I took a lot of math in high school. Junior year, they didn't have calculus yet and I'd already taken trig, so they created a course for me, which including symbolic logic, number theory, Klein four-groups and such. Frankly, calculus was a *relief*. We also took Earth Science in 8th grade so I started freshman year with biology.
 

Midnightrider

Well-Known Member
that is arrogant of you ....... not all degrees require advanced math
algebra is not advanced math. Algebra is basic logic.
This is definitely the way to go. Because, ya' know..... the REAL WORLD makes adjustments for everyone so everybody can get a trophy.... amiright?

There are company leaders, and there are those who clean the toilets. Plenty of both are needed ya' know.... :shrug:

Who said make adjustments for everybody. If you have people who are failing to understand a topic, try to find a way to make it more relatable to them. In the end it is on the student to get help. Most colleges have free tutors and labs for students. like I said, algebra is not hard.
 

Clem72

Well-Known Member
Congrats Doogie Howser :yay:

I think my entire point was that my education was not considered exceptional at the time/place, and I wasn't in any "advanced" or "stem" curriculums. Not sure we even had them. We had the regular classes, and the remedial classes. Regardless of my choice of words in the previous post, the point still stands. Algebra should be a requirement for a degree from a university/college, just as there are requirements for humanities and sciences and languages. Not for a vocational school, where you also do not need to take art history, geology, or perspectives on gender.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
algebra is not advanced math. Algebra is basic logic.


Who said make adjustments for everybody. If you have people who are failing to understand a topic, try to find a way to make it more relatable to them. In the end it is on the student to get help. Most colleges have free tutors and labs for students. like I said, algebra is not hard.


I sure didn't think so. But like many things in life, it's always different when you're on the other end. I learned about a lot of things I wasn't good at that other people found tremendously easy.

One of those things was carpentry. After losing work in the 80's, I worked as a laborer - read, carpenter helper - for a good friend of mine. But there were just some things I could NOT do. I could not accurately cut a stringer for a stair no matter how hard I tried. I could not build anything to be completely level and on more than one occasion my boss had to tear down everything I'd done and start over. He could do in minutes what took me all morning. He insisted it was *EASY* and my problem was, I didn't pay attention. On the other hand, he could cut lengths of wood within 1/16th WITHOUT MEASURING. He could look at a flight of stairs and say "that's a quarter inch out of level". He could look at different sides of the inside of a house and tell me the sag. He could nail an entire deck of wood in minutes with just a hammer and a large fistful of nails - two shots per nail. Tap once to set it, tap twice to drive it in. I remember us putting up one of those fences where the boards overlap on opposite sides - you just have to try and picture it. He took a couple measurements and began to hammer - he had worked out the places to nail - in his head - down all 100 feet of fence.

To him - it was too easy.

Me? I'm a programmer. But there's some programming I don't do. The stuff I do - to me - is so easy it's laughable. To others, it's hieroglyphics. Some programming - system level stuff - I can't do that. The guys that do it can do it in their sleep.

I started out as an engineer - and I worked with guys who designed simple devices in minutes. I was amazed.

SOME people will never grasp certain things. We like to think we're all just blank canvases ready to be drawn on, but it ain't so. Some people can't. Some can. Some people draw on talent they have - like being able to "see" math in their head, compose music without being able to hear it, play chess against several opponents with your back to the board. My carpenter friend had a KEEN eye - we could drive down a road and he could spot a wild fruit tree in the woods on the side of a road - that was a good several yards into the woods - while driving at 55. Spot a screwdriver on the shoulder on the same road. I can find a programming error no one else saw within minutes (I try very hard to keep this skill to myself as people are always asking for help).

We CAN however cultivate SKILLS. My mom cannot navigate through the controls on the Roku TV we own - but my 8 year old does it with ease.
 

getbent

Thats how them b*tch's R
We're not talking about Linear Algebra, or even multi-variable algenbra (often called Algebra II). This is the most basic algebra course the community college can present, equivalent to the one most of us took in elementary. It is indeed basic math, and while you might have been able to live your life without it (you probably also were able to live your life without being able to diagram a sentence or name the state capitals), it is still part of a very basic education.

I'm working on my AA at CSM. I took the basic Algebra course last year. Anything before that does not count towards your degree. So I had to pay for a Math class that didn't count. I definitely should have paid attention more in high school. Of course when I went, I don't believe there was a specific math you had to pass in order to get your degree.
 

Midnightrider

Well-Known Member
Pretty sure it was this person below...



Making it "more relatable" is double talk for adjusting it for everyone. :yay:
maybe for a tard who doesn't understand English that's what it means.




Basic to YOU Leroy, not everyone else ..... again nice arrogance


no, it is basic math to all. Some basic stuff is just hard for some people. That is life. Everyone is different and is good and bad at different things. You being bad at something does not make that thing 'advanced'.
 

Bird Dog

Bird Dog
PREMO Member
So tell me this oh wise one...

How do you make a subject "more relatable" to multiple people without altering the way the subject is taught? I would love to hear your arcane insight into this... :tap:
I think MR is suffering from early onset. Lately he makes statements he says he didn't and can't answer simple questions about his posts, like they never happened.
Or his handlers are making him post things he is just clueless about and abandoning him when he gets called out on it.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member


KIND of. Very basic algebra of the kind being discussed is more like applied basic math.

For example:

3 x 4 = 12 -- that's multiplication.

3x = 12 - that's simple algebra.

When you and I first encountered a problem similar to that, it was called a "word problem".
Debbie has 12 eggs and wants to give the same amount to her 3 sisters. How many do each get?
Oh that's easy, just divide twelve by three.

Of course. But the first equation you learn by memorization. It is a statement.
When you saw it in third grade, you were taught to give the answer of 3 x 4.
The second you learn by reasoning, even though while subtly different, they represent the same numbers.
 

Midnightrider

Well-Known Member
KIND of. Very basic algebra of the kind being discussed is more like applied basic math.

For example:

3 x 4 = 12 -- that's multiplication.

3x = 12 - that's simple algebra.

When you and I first encountered a problem similar to that, it was called a "word problem".
Debbie has 12 eggs and wants to give the same amount to her 3 sisters. How many do each get?
Oh that's easy, just divide twelve by three.


Of course. But the first equation you learn by memorization. It is a statement.
When you saw it in third grade, you were taught to give the answer of 3 x 4.
The second you learn by reasoning, even though while subtly different, they represent the same numbers.

Exactly Sam. Algebra is basic math, and it is stuff you do all the time. If you are going to build a deck you will need to figure out your materials. If you are going on a road trip and need to pick people up at different times along the way, you use algebra. Doing a budget or trying to set the price for your products? yep.....Community college algebra is exactly at that level. Simple equations and math logic. things all degree holders should be able to do.

hey restitution, se the bolded part. You do it exactly like that only with word problems the people can relate to or have an interest in. And again, I said the students who struggle with the concepts should get outside tutoring where they can learn in a more individualized manner. the requirements stay the same.
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
And I took algebra in 4th grade in '64. So who's anecdote is superior?
.

It was first offered in the second year of middle school (7th grade) in the Howard County School System. I took it in 8th grade, if I recall correctly. I see they now offer a "pre-Algebra" in 6th grade. Very, very typical of most school systems I've seen.

Kinda hard to take in 4th grade when it's not offered, eh?
 
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