Hawking

[Ignatiuslives]

call adaptation "micro-evolution" if you want. It's still adapting to a changed physical environment for survival of the species. The question is: Where did each of the plant and life-form species begin? That's the question neither you nor science has really been able to answer. = Theory

lol.
Your understanding of this whole evolution thing is a bit flawed.

I think if you did your research you would find some interesting stuff. Maybe the famous primordial soup experiments.... maybe the discovery of self-replicating rna... you know, stuff like that.

Oh well.

 

[thatguy]

call adaptation "micro-evolution" if you want. It's still adapting to a changed physical environment for survival of the species. The question is: Where did each of the plant and life-form species begin? That's the question neither you nor science has really been able to answer. = Theory

science = theory

bible = fictional tale written by men

the difference is that sicence recognizes and understands the limits of their theories, you pretend your book is the one truth

 

[Merlin99]

Even gravity has been designed to be in perfect order within this universe. The orbital balance of our own solar system and the diameter of each planet is proof of that. A few degrees difference in orbital distance would cause any one of the planets to crash into one another by pull of gravity and/or be pulled into the sun or be cast into the outer darkness of space. Same with the constellations throughout the expanse of the entire universe.

How ironic that upon such a great catacylsmic explosion called the "Big Bang" our solar system settled into a neat little orbital path around the sun - just at the right distance and even includes atmospheric pressure with oxygen that helps us keep our feet planted to the ground and gives us life sustaining air and water for the survival of mankind and the animal kingdom.

Gee, must have just been a coincidence that this all happened.

how many solar systems are there? out of several million, one or two working out that way wouldn't suprise anyone. You ever hear the quote about giving an infinite number of monkees typewriters and enough time and they'll eventually come up with the works of Shakespeare?

 

[Starman3000m]

how many solar systems are there? out of several million, one or two working out that way wouldn't suprise anyone. You ever hear the quote about giving an infinite number of monkees typewriters and enough time and they'll eventually come up with the works of Shakespeare?

Yep. According to the Theory you trust, Shakespear must have been the result of the evolutionary progression of monkeys .

 

[Starman3000m]

science = theory

bible = fictional tale written by men

the difference is that sicence recognizes and understands the limits of their theories, you pretend your book is the one truth

Science attempts to theorize and try try to explain how life on earth began.

The Divine Creation that science cannot begin to explain and also has no answer for is the presence of the invisible quality that includes the soul and spirit of mankind.

 

[thatguy]

Science attempts to theorize and try try to explain how life on earth began.

The Divine Creation that science cannot begin to explain and also has no answer for is the presence of the invisible quality that includes the soul and spirit of mankind.

well that says a whole lot of nothing

like i said, science may be theory, but the bible is a work of fiction written by men to explain the unexplainable.
the difference being that science doesn't pretend that beliving something hard enoguh makes it true.

 

[Starman3000m]

well that says a whole lot of nothing

like i said, science may be theory, but the bible is a work of fiction written by men to explain the unexplainable.
the difference being that science doesn't pretend that beliving something hard enoguh makes it true.

OK - but theories in science are subject to ever changing ideas and discoveries. The reality of interaction with mankind by a Divine Supreme Creator of life and the universe has never changed.

So, on that point fellas (guys and gals) let's agree to disagree. I don't think that continuing to use up bandwidth on this thread is going to change either of our thoughts on this issue. This debate (Creationism or Evolution) has gone on for a few hundred years now. It's not going to get solved by our discussion of trying to prove who is right and who is wrong. The fact is, through all of this debate, there is still an answer because There Is Only One Truth! (purple type intended)

 

[thatguy]

OK - but theories in science are subject to ever changing ideas and discoveries. The ILLUSION of interaction with mankind by a Divine Supreme Creator of life and the universe has never changed.

i'd rather have a changing theory based on reality that an illusion based on a work of fiction.

 

[Starman3000m]

i'd rather have a changing theory based on reality that an illusion based on a work of fiction.

Yep - And you'll never know what to believe since what you first thought was reality turned out to be fallacy (theories)!
The Truth in my God never changes.

 

[Merlin99]

Yep. According to the Theory you trust, Shakespear must have been the result of the evolutionary progression of monkeys .

If that's how you understand the theory of evolution it's no wonder you don't find the idea viable.

 

[wxtornado]

OK - but theories in science are subject to ever changing ideas and discoveries.

Exactly. This is what science does. Lets take evolution for instance.

Evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts.

Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome.

 

[Ignatiuslives]

Exactly. This is what science does. Lets take evolution for instance.

Evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts.

Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome.

well said.

 

[Starman3000m]

Exactly. This is what science does. Lets take evolution for instance.

Evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts.

Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome.

OK- but, when the theories are believed as "facts" and taught for many years only to be revised and changed because the original "facts" had been based on prior theories, inconclusive evidence and incomplete information - then what? More theories that will be changed at a later date?

As mentioned, no point in trying to solve this issue on this thread. Believe as you wish for right now - until that belief changes in the future because "science" found out something different.
Going back to my "Let's learn about Islam" discussions.

 

[thatguy]

OK- but, when the theories are believed as "facts" and taught for many years only to be revised and changed because the original "facts" had been based on prior theories, inconclusive evidence and incomplete information - then what? More theories that will be changed at a later date?

As mentioned, no point in trying to solve this issue on this thread. Believe as you wish for right now - until that belief changes in the future because "science" found out something different.
Going back to my "Let's learn about Islam" discussions.

you obviously have a lack of understanding regarding facts and theories.

and you are welcome to get back to you HATE YOUR NEIGHBOR threads, just like WJWD

 

[Starman3000m]

you obviously have a lack of understanding regarding facts and theories.

and you are welcome to get back to you HATE YOUR NEIGHBOR threads, just like WJWD

UM... I see you have no explanation for how life began either. No facts - just theories, eh.

BTW: Jesus wants Muslims to know what True Peace and Life is all about rather than believing that chanting death to America and Israel and committing suicide bombings gets them into heaven where wide-eyed voluptuous women await. Just sayin...

 

[PsyOps]

Here we go again. You must be joking. You do I am sure know that evolution; the gradual changing of organisms to adapt to changing environments, actuallly happens and can easily be demonstrated. Evolution is not only a theory, but is a fact. It began life as a theory in 1859 when Darwin published the Origin of Species.

Long since the massive weight of evidence has taken it from theory to fact - except maybe in backwoods environments. It is way too tedious to have to go further in explaining this to wilfully ignorant folks who prefer to adopt strange and archaic views of the world. So odd that these people predominantly reside in an advanced nation.

Take a look at the discoveries of a hundred and fifty years ago and pray you are not struck down for eating of the tree of knowledge.

Then we need to stop calling it “The Theory of Evolution”. I’ve never once contended that evolution doesn’t exist. Certain aspects of evolution can certainly be proven as fact; but it's pure speculation that man started as some sort of fish that made it to land that became a reptile that became an ape-like species that split off the apes and humans. And the big hole is evolution certainly doesn’t explain how life came to be.

I am not saying it didn’t happen this way; I’m simply saying that none of it proves the non-existence of God, and to use it to that effect is a lost argument. When you try to throw scientific theories out there to disprove the existence of God I have only one choice but to come back and say that the only reason evolution exists is because you believe it does. The only reason black holes exists if because you have faith that it’s true. You can’t prove it as absolute, you can’t show it to me, you can only assert through certain studies and math that these things occur.

You are demanding me to take a look at 100 – 150 years of study yet you refuse to accept thousands of years of study and belief in a God as evidence. Your evidence pales in comparison IMHO.

No, I’m not joking.

 

[wxtornado]

Then we need to stop calling it “The Theory of Evolution”. I’ve never once contended that evolution doesn’t exist. Certain aspects of evolution can certainly be proven as fact; but it's pure speculation that man started as some sort of fish that made it to land that became a reptile that became an ape-like species that split off the apes and humans. And the big hole is evolution certainly doesn’t explain how life came to be.

I am not saying it didn’t happen this way; I’m simply saying that none of it proves the non-existence of God, and to use it to that effect is a lost argument. When you try to throw scientific theories out there to disprove the existence of God I have only one choice but to come back and say that the only reason evolution exists is because you believe it does. The only reason black holes exists if because you have faith that it’s true. You can’t prove it as absolute, you can’t show it to me, you can only assert through certain studies and math that these things occur.

You are demanding me to take a look at 100 – 150 years of study yet you refuse to accept thousands of years of study and belief in a God as evidence. Your evidence pales in comparison IMHO.

No, I’m not joking.

I had a long, drawn-out reply, but it would again prove to be futile as I'm constantly repeating myself to these strawman arguments of yours, so just the talking points:

1. Evolution is a theory and a fact.
2. It doesn't matter if anyone "believes" in it, it's not a belief. It stands or falls on the facts that support it.
3. Evolution has nothing to do with how life started, nor does it claim to; that's called abiogenesis.
4. Evolution has never claimed to prove that a god or gods don't exist. Why would it?
5. People have believed in gods for TENS of thousands of years, not merely thousands

 

[Ignatiuslives]

I don't think we have been using evolution to prove that god doesn't exist. Last time I checked, scientific theory is only one step under being a law. Either way, it isn't exactly pure speculation. Even if there were no dark areas in evolution it still could not be used as proof that god doesn't exist.


And you refuse to believe other religions that have even more "thousands of years of study and belief."

I don't think "belief", no matter for how long, makes anything right. That's why there is an empirical system. Studying something that can, by its nature, provide no empirical evidence is of no value either.

The furthest we could ever get is making any god other than a deistic god unreasonable.

And for starman, I thought jesus died a few hundred years before islam appeared? Has he been talking to you?

 

[Ignatiuslives]

hahaha, wxtornado. we really must coordinate these responses. this is becoming redundant.

 

[wxtornado]

hahaha, wxtornado. we really must coordinate these responses. this is becoming redundant.

Lol, and even redundancy won't matter - it's futile I tell you!