Mother, cancer-stricken son on the run

pixiegirl

Cleopatra Jones
You're missing the point. If little Sara or Bobby's parents had them vaccinated they won't get it either. :yay:

AND to expand... If I don't get my kids vaccinated and then can't send them to school I get in trouble from the state for not sending them to school.
 

Christy

b*tch rocket
You are required to have your children vaccinated if you want the state benefit of a free education.

Wrong. Vaccines in children throughout the years have been used to erradicate quickly spreading diseases that do indeed effect the health of the populace. I don't understand why you said that as it has nothing to do with my argument. If you chose to have your child protected you'd have that choice just as I could chose to not have my child protected. The fact of the matter is if you want your kids to go to public school or even private state licensed daycare which is probably a better example because they state requires that all daycare facilities be licensed and that all children must be vaccinated; the state says they HAVE to be protected. You don't abide by state rules concerning the health of your children, you don't get state benefits and can't even get some private. We're both saying the same thing. :lol: And I agree with this position. Because you do still have a choice. It may not be a choice one would like, but you still have a choice. If you don't want to vaccinate your kid, then you get to homeschool. :yay:

The state requires children to be in child seats in the car. The state is requiring you to do something to potentially preserve the life of your child. Stupid law. Not that putting a child in a carseat is stupid, it just goes back to the Nanny State. It wouldn't effect me because I would put my kid in a carseat, but it is still the government overstepping its bounds. A better option would be for a car insurance company to write it into their contract for car insurance. A private contract between an individual and their insurance company. Not the Nanny State.

The point is you can't say that the state can mandate somethings and not others. My point is, that the State should not be permitted to mandate any of it. I am fully opposed to government intervention in to individual choices when those choices in no way effect the population as a whole. Make sense?

See me in Blue. :jet:
 
B

Beaver-Cleaver

Guest
And, she's done what regarding that issue as governor of Alaska?

plenty, google is your friend. but i don't expect you to do your research since you only go to bias sources.

That's right, she believes in something, but has a different view of law. (incorrect - it's a matter of getting laws passed, she's been unsuccessful) She's demonstrated that by being one of the few governors to order same-gendered relationships receive identical health care as married folk in her state government. (actually, they were there before Palin took office - she attempted to remove those benefits that were granted by the Alaska Supreme Court, but the vote failed) (kind of an inconvinient truth for your opinion of her, don't you think? :lol:)

Besides, you were comparing the idea of pro-life and pro-choice, not Palin. Why don't you accept the mother's right to choose in THIS case?
You don't get it, do you? I support the child being allowed to live. A 13 year old kid is not the same as an unborn fetus. :lmao: IIRC, there are laws against late-term abortions.

See responses.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
See responses.
Hmmm, I googled, and found this:

Q: If Roe v. Wade were overturned and states could once again prohibit abortion, in your view, to what extent should abortion be prohibited in Alaska?
A: Under this hypothetical scenario, it would not be up to the governor to unilaterally ban anything. It would be up to the people of Alaska to discuss and decide how we would like our society to reflect our values.

Source: Anchorage Daily News: 2006 gubernatorial candidate profile Oct 22, 2006
______________________________________________________________

Q: Why is Roe v. Wade a bad decision?
A: I think it should be a states’ issue not a federal government-mandated, mandating yes or no on such an important issue. I’m, in that sense, a federalist, where I believe that states should have more say in the laws of their lands and individual areas. Now, foundationally, it’s no secret that I’m pro-life that I believe in a culture of life is very important for this country. Personally that’s what I would like to see further embraced by America.

Source: 2008 CBS News presidential interview with Katie Couric Oct 1, 2008
_____________________________________________________________


I'm sure Newsweek was just biased in her favor, though, right?
 
B

Beaver-Cleaver

Guest
Hmmm, I googled, and found this:

Q: If Roe v. Wade were overturned and states could once again prohibit abortion, in your view, to what extent should abortion be prohibited in Alaska?
A: Under this hypothetical scenario, it would not be up to the governor to unilaterally ban anything. It would be up to the people of Alaska to discuss and decide how we would like our society to reflect our values.

Source: Anchorage Daily News: 2006 gubernatorial candidate profile Oct 22, 2006
______________________________________________________________

Q: Why is Roe v. Wade a bad decision?
A: I think it should be a states’ issue not a federal government-mandated, mandating yes or no on such an important issue. I’m, in that sense, a federalist, where I believe that states should have more say in the laws of their lands and individual areas. Now, foundationally, it’s no secret that I’m pro-life that I believe in a culture of life is very important for this country. Personally that’s what I would like to see further embraced by America.

Source: 2008 CBS News presidential interview with Katie Couric Oct 1, 2008
_____________________________________________________________


I'm sure Newsweek was just biased in her favor, though, right?

That's it? :lmao:
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
See responses.
On gay rights, you are again wrong. Alaska's Supreme Court ruled the benefits had to be instated. The legislature tried to stop it from being implemented with new law, Palin overturned said law attempt with a VETO.

Yes, my friend, she VETOED an attempt to restrict the health benefits from same-gendered unions, even though HER PARTY was for the restriction.
In 2005, Alaska's highest court ruled, in a case brought in 1999 on behalf of nine couples, that the state could not deny benefits to the domestic partners of state government employees. The court ordered the state to implement that ruling in late 2006.

The ruling was seen by right wingers as conflicting with a 1998 amendment to the Alaska Constitution, passed by voters in a ballot referendum, that defined marriage as solely between one man and one woman. The Republican-dominated State Legislature passed a bill that barred the state's administrative agency from implementing the ruling. Palin vetoed it.


"The Department of Law advised me that this bill... is unconstitutional given the recent court order... mandating same-sex benefits," Palin said in a statement. "With that in mind, signing this bill would be in direct violation of my oath of office."
Eight days before signing the veto, Palin signed another bill that called for a "statewide advisory vote" regarding the ruling from Alaska's high court, saying in a statement, "We may disagree with the rationale behind the ruling, but our responsibility is to proceed forward with the law and follow the Constitution... I disagree with the recent court decision because I feel as though Alaskans spoke on this issue with its overwhelming support for a Constitutional Amendment in 1998 which defined marriage as between a man and woman. But the Supreme Court has spoken and the state will abide."
But, I'm sure GayCityNews is biased against her stance, right?
 

pixiegirl

Cleopatra Jones
You have the option to homeschool. :yay:

Homeschooling = mandated by the state. :yay: Like it or not whichever way you try to turn the government is telling you what you can and can not do with your children. You've quietly accpeted and not even considered it until it was brought to your attention. You accepted that the rules in place where ok and good. The rules are in place for idiots like this woman. I for one am not all THAT concerned with what you call the "nanny" state, I'm not an idiot or a deviant so common sense rules really are no bother to me.
 
B

Beaver-Cleaver

Guest
On gay rights, you are again wrong. Alaska's Supreme Court ruled the benefits had to be instated. The legislature tried to stop it from being implemented with new law, Palin overturned said law attempt with a VETO.

Yes, my friend, she VETOED an attempt to restrict the health benefits from same-gendered unions, even though HER PARTY was for the restriction.
In 2005, Alaska's highest court ruled, in a case brought in 1999 on behalf of nine couples, that the state could not deny benefits to the domestic partners of state government employees. The court ordered the state to implement that ruling in late 2006.

The ruling was seen by right wingers as conflicting with a 1998 amendment to the Alaska Constitution, passed by voters in a ballot referendum, that defined marriage as solely between one man and one woman. The Republican-dominated State Legislature passed a bill that barred the state's administrative agency from implementing the ruling. Palin vetoed it.


"The Department of Law advised me that this bill... is unconstitutional given the recent court order... mandating same-sex benefits," Palin said in a statement. "With that in mind, signing this bill would be in direct violation of my oath of office."
Eight days before signing the veto, Palin signed another bill that called for a "statewide advisory vote" regarding the ruling from Alaska's high court, saying in a statement, "We may disagree with the rationale behind the ruling, but our responsibility is to proceed forward with the law and follow the Constitution... I disagree with the recent court decision because I feel as though Alaskans spoke on this issue with its overwhelming support for a Constitutional Amendment in 1998 which defined marriage as between a man and woman. But the Supreme Court has spoken and the state will abide."
But, I'm sure GayCityNews is biased against her stance, right?

Like many issues as they relate to Mrs. Palin, she was against it before she was for it:

Bent Alaska: Palin Supports Gay Rights?
 

Christy

b*tch rocket
Homeschooling = mandated by the state. :yay: Like it or not whichever way you try to turn the government is telling you what you can and can not do with your children. You've quietly accpeted and not even considered it until it was brought to your attention. You accepted that the rules in place where ok and good. The rules are in place for idiots like this woman. I for one am not all THAT concerned with what you call the "nanny" state, I'm not an idiot or a deviant so common sense rules really are no bother to me.

:bs: I have not "quietly accepted anything. If the government, or anybody else for that matter, infringes upon my right as a parent to do what I feel is right for MY child, then I'm certainly not going to stand by and just accept it. I've fought for both of my kids on numerous occassions when my rights and their rights have been infringed upon.

You are fine with "the rules" until those rules start encroaching even more and more. You are fine with them when they don't neccessarily effect you. I'm not of the mindset of ignoring government encroachment until it effects me. By then it will be to late.

Everyone thinks they are a good parent and their choices are sound. For each and every parent who thinks that there is another parent who can look at your life and your children and find an area where they feel that you are negligent. Do you really want to open the door to allow the government to make that determination and decision for you? Do you want a judge telling you that your kid needs to go on Ritilan? Do you want a judge to tell you that your child is of the age to have sex, so they now require an HPV vaccine?

If you can't see any of this being an eventuality due to the incessant and continual encroachment of government into everyone's right as a parent, then you are blind.

You don't have to agree with the choices this family has made, but if you don't eventually want your own choices questioned and over ridden, then you'd better wake up and stop shoving your head in the sand thinking that nothing like this could ever happen to you. Sure the woman is a freaking moron, but I'm sorry, you can't legislate common sense, and you most certainly can't save everyone.
 

pixiegirl

Cleopatra Jones
:bs: I have not "quietly accepted anything. If the government, or anybody else for that matter, infringes upon my right as a parent to do what I feel is right for MY child, then I'm certainly not going to stand by and just accept it. I've fought for both of my kids on numerous occassions when my rights and their rights have been infringed upon.

You are fine with "the rules" until those rules start encroaching even more and more. You are fine with them when they don't neccessarily effect you. I'm not of the mindset of ignoring government encroachment until it effects me. By then it will be to late.

Everyone thinks they are a good parent and their choices are sound. For each and every parent who thinks that there is another parent who can look at your life and your children and find an area where they feel that you are negligent. Do you really want to open the door to allow the government to make that determination and decision for you? Do you want a judge telling you that your kid needs to go on Ritilan? Do you want a judge to tell you that your child is of the age to have sex, so they now require an HPV vaccine?

If you can't see any of this being an eventuality due to the incessant and continual encroachment of government into everyone's right as a parent, then you are blind.

You don't have to agree with the choices this family has made, but if you don't eventually want your own choices questioned and over ridden, then you'd better wake up and stop shoving your head in the sand thinking that nothing like this could ever happen to you. Sure the woman is a freaking moron, but I'm sorry, you can't legislate common sense, and you most certainly can't save everyone.


I think you're being an extreemist and I'm being a realist. :shrug:

You're in your early 40s, how much have YOUR rights changed in the past 20 years?
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
Like many issues as they relate to Mrs. Palin, she was against it before she was for it
The question was what she's done about it as governor.

She is not for it. But, she understands that her position as governor doesn't mean she gets to say "I won" and make rules based on becoming queen of the state - she has to follow the law. And, she does.
 

pixiegirl

Cleopatra Jones
Can't smoke in public any more. Does that count?

Well with that logic I'll bring up the vaccine example again.... That can't be a big deal to anyone who has vaccinated their kids. Second hand smoke "may" cause harm, "may" be deadly thus has been classified as a "public threat". It can't be ok to allow one public threat and not another.

I should have worded better and asked her about her rights as a parent. I have a 7 year old and can say that in those 7 years not ONE right has been infringed on.
 

Christy

b*tch rocket
Per your last sentance, the state shouldn't step in in clear cut cases of neglect or abuse inside a home? That doesn't affect society as whole.


Do you consider the decision this family has made as neglect or abuse? I don't. I think it is stupid, but it is a decision they all made, as a family. You have people who refuse certain medical treatments for their families for many different reasons. You have people who don't believe in blood transfusions. Do you take their children away because of that?


The debate over what is a clear cut case of neglect and abuse as a whole is an entirely separate discussion in itself. There are many parental decisions that are perfectly legal that I feel is abuse and neglect. Hell, I think parents who stick their kids in pageants, television shows, or movies are clearly negligent and abusive to their children. I think parents who go out partying and dating every weekend are negligent and abusive. I think parents who stick their kids in way too many sports programs are abusive and negligent. That is MY opinion, but I certainly would not support letting some State judge decide what they can and can't do with their spawn.

There are some of the opinion that spanking your child is a clear cut case of abuse and neglect. Do you want to stand in front of a judge and let him decide if you swatting your kid on the butt is apropriate or not?
 

pixiegirl

Cleopatra Jones
Do you consider the decision this family has made as neglect or abuse? I don't. I think it is stupid, but it is a decision they all made, as a family. You have people who refuse certain medical treatments for their families for many different reasons. You have people who don't believe in blood transfusions. Do you take their children away because of that?


The debate over what is a clear cut case of neglect and abuse as a whole is an entirely separate discussion in itself. There are many parental decisions that are perfectly legal that I feel is abuse and neglect. Hell, I think parents who stick their kids in pageants, television shows, or movies are clearly negligent and abusive to their children. I think parents who go out partying and dating every weekend are negligent and abusive. I think parents who stick their kids in way too many sports programs are abusive and negligent. That is MY opinion, but I certainly would not support letting some State judge decide what they can and can't do with their spawn.

There are some of the opinion that spanking your child is a clear cut case of abuse and neglect. Do you want to stand in front of a judge and let him decide if you swatting your kid on the butt is apropriate or not?


Yep, sure do. My very first post on the topic was before the first treatment they were a-okay with it or else the child would have never recieved his first treatment.

As for the rest our governance structure is set up so that not ONE nutball with nutty ideals is allowed to make all the rules which is EXACTLY why nothing concerning how you raise your children has changed in the past bazillion years. I have no more "life altering" constraints put on myself in regard to raising my kids than my parents did on me 30 years ago.
 
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