New Speed Cameras in Calvert School Zones

glhs837

Power with Control
Bravo!

We should put a few coming into the town centers on Rt 4. Hell, put them on every road. People drive way too fast.


So I can put you in the "Enforcement for profit that makes nobody any safer but it feels good so do it anyway" camp? You don't care about safety as long as it makes you feel good. Got it. Look at the crashes that happen. Those crashes, especially over in Calvert, are overwhelmingly caused by failure to yield, not by speeding. That's why no matter how much time the CCSO officers spend lasing the crap out of people as they approach the bridge, they are not affecting the crash rate. If you don't focus on the cause, you wont affect the stats.
 

thurley42

HY;FR
Bravo!

We should put a few coming into the town centers on Rt 4. Hell, put them on every road. People drive way too fast.

Yeah! More cameras! Take away every little bit of personal privacy and freedom!! IT"S FOR THE CHILLLLLLLDREEEEN....LMAO give me a break.
 

BernieP

Resident PIA
Yeah! More cameras! Take away every little bit of personal privacy and freedom!! IT"S FOR THE CHILLLLLLLDREEEEN....LMAO give me a break.

LMAO, I heard the story on the news. For the safety of the school children. From what I've seen, the schools in this area don't even allow kids to walk or ride their bikes to school.
It's not like when we were young, we had crossing guards (at major roads) and the safety patrol.

So saying "it's for the children" is comical. If it were operating in the area where children walked, before, during and after school hours ONLY, I would be less inclined to smell a fraud.
But you look at the environment, including the hours of operation, and the fact that it's "for profit", and you can't help being a cynic.
Companies would not enter into these rental agreements if there wasn't profit to be made.
Counties / towns, would not be signing up if there was a net operating cost, not income.
 

glhs837

Power with Control
LMAO, I heard the story on the news. For the safety of the school children. From what I've seen, the schools in this area don't even allow kids to walk or ride their bikes to school.
It's not like when we were young, we had crossing guards (at major roads) and the safety patrol.

So saying "it's for the children" is comical. If it were operating in the area where children walked, before, during and after school hours ONLY, I would be less inclined to smell a fraud.
But you look at the environment, including the hours of operation, and the fact that it's "for profit", and you can't help being a cynic.
Companies would not enter into these rental agreements if there wasn't profit to be made.
Counties / towns, would not be signing up if there was a net operating cost, not income.

In fact, once they stop making money, govt dumps them like a fat kid dumping carrots.
 

BernieP

Resident PIA
In fact, once they stop making money, govt dumps them like a fat kid dumping carrots.
I love the holier than thou, "if you aren't breaking the law..." people who can't see that it's a situation that's just ripe for some corruption and looking the other way.
Sooner or later you will see a bill like some states,
Fine ...................... $40
Police Dept Admin Fee $15
Polics Safety Ed Prgm $15
Court Computer Mod ..$25
Court Fee $15
State Fee $15
Total Fine & Fees $ 125

Speed limit will be dropped to 10 MPH and then they will push to drop the tolerance or they will just "adjust" the trigger to capture more vehicles.
Like any tax, you can plan on it not going away and it will only go up.
 

glhs837

Power with Control
Not gonna happen, the cams are portable, as soon as they stop producing at one location, they will move them.

Yep, the smart parasite moves around on the host. Itch too long in once place, the host scrapes you off. Fixed location cameras are for suckers......... When they start to drop, then the vendor can sell the county the mobile camera upgrade (Call it Camagera :)) that will revive those flagging revenue numbers :) For an increase in the percentage they receive on each ticket of course. thought I saw one press release that mentioned the county share in the 60% range. Which would jive with other counties reported percentages which range in the 30% of each citation to the vendor.

Which raises another point of shenanigans regarding these systems. the MD law authorizing them specifically prohibits "bounty" systems that pay the "operator" a per ticket fee. Intended to reduce the temptation to rig the system against the citizen. MD counties blew right through that, knowing the State, having the citizen very far from mind, would never actually enforce the law. And they were right. Until they got the "reform" bill through that let them grandfather such previously illegal contracts, they played the word game that the vendor, who installed, calibrated, and received the citations and issued the tickets, and received the citizens checks and gave the county it's share of the money were not actually the "operators". The counties claimed that they were the operator because an officer personally reviewed each citation. So they handled one step, the vendor did everything else and still the county claimed to be operating the system :) There is no aspect of automated enforcement that isn't dripping in slime.
 

BernieP

Resident PIA
Maybe you should put this in the "New Businesses coming to Southern Maryland thread"?

I guess the people who think they are fine, that they will only affect law breakers are not familiar with the shenanigans that went on with so called "Speed Traps".
Where it was pretty much your word against the officers, and it was their judge that was hearing the case.

I've heard some great stories. The most infamous and probably one of the few who got off was a guy who told the judge that there was no way his car was capable of the speed cited (and we aren't talking over 60). So the judge gets the officer to drive the car and see if he can make the speed in the ticket. Officer and car couldn't come close. Case dismissed. Now I'm not saying the officer lied, but.....
A major NE city was also know for the number of tickets issued to suburban drivers. Seems officers who were off duty would take down the plate numbers of people who pissed them off, then write a ticket. You could either put up the bond and go to court to fight the ticket or pay the fine. Of course you had to prove you were not at that location and were not even in the city at the time of the ticket. Which for most of us isn't that simple when the ticket shows up in your mail one to two months after the date.
Notice in all this, you have to prove your are innocent. You are presumed guilty.
Which is what the system counts on and why writing traffic tickets is a long standing tradition for governments to raise a little revenue.
 

glhs837

Power with Control
Yeah, Fort Washington was a good case a few years back. Their newly deployed systems on 210 just north of the beltway ("protecting" a school about a 1/4 mile back off the highway) were nailing a large number of big boxy vehicles. RVs and delivery trucks were getting hammered. Local auto parts guy whose fleet was particularly hit, and knew his guys were not speeding managed to win, but it was pretty ugly. Another guy showed that his RV simply could not achieve the stated speed in the time allowed. Other folks proved thier innocence using timestamps on the two pictures that come with the citation. Showed distance travelled and how many seconds it took to travel that distance. Vendor killed that degfense pretty quick by reducing the number of decimals showing to the victi, I mean offender on the citation. Still measures that, but you dont get to see it. They also had the city claim that the photos were not evidentiary in nature, even though the company operators manual for that system made a point of saying that the supplied pictures were a secondary means of proving the speed of the victim.

Do some reading, it's a pretty crazy story. Including a cameo with lying by one of our County Commissioners, who was the one fronting the lie about the purpose of the photos.

http://www.mddriversalliance.org/search/label/Forest Heights


"John O'Connor testified on Behalf of Optotraffic that photos cannot be used to show speed: "We do not use photos that are taken at two independent times to estimate speed. Why? Because it's inaccurate. You can't do it." and "The photo is actually just secondary evidence that the vehicle was there and it was in motion, that it was there at the time of the occurrence." [ O'Connor has identified himself as "Director of the Law Institute of Maryland" in his linkedin page... an organization which we could find no information for online other than a domain name registration which was opened on September 2011 and which recently expired. He lists himself as formerly the "Program Manager Automated Speed Enforcement Program Seat Pleasant Police Department", a town whose speed cameras are run by Optotraffic. That linkedin page also references the Optotraffic website (snapshot from 9/21/2012). O'Connor reportedly gave similar testimony to this effect on Optotraffic's behalf at numerous hearings.]

This testimony seems to conflict with Optotraffic's own technical document, which states that their equipment is supposed to be able to verify speed: “While the primary evidence for issuing a speeding citation is the calibrated Lane Sensor, the two photos provide the secondary evidence of speeding that is presented to the citation recipient.” and “Since a stationary object is present along with the vehicle, a photographic method also determines speed, guaranteeing fairness”.
 

vince77

Active Member
Yeah, Fort Washington was a good case a few years back. Their newly deployed systems on 210 just north of the beltway ("protecting" a school about a 1/4 mile back off the highway) were nailing a large number of big boxy vehicles. RVs and delivery trucks were getting hammered. Local auto parts guy whose fleet was particularly hit, and knew his guys were not speeding managed to win, but it was pretty ugly. Another guy showed that his RV simply could not achieve the stated speed in the time allowed. Other folks proved thier innocence using timestamps on the two pictures that come with the citation. Showed distance travelled and how many seconds it took to travel that distance. Vendor killed that degfense pretty quick by reducing the number of decimals showing to the victi, I mean offender on the citation. Still measures that, but you dont get to see it. They also had the city claim that the photos were not evidentiary in nature, even though the company operators manual for that system made a point of saying that the supplied pictures were a secondary means of proving the speed of the victim.

Do some reading, it's a pretty crazy story. Including a cameo with lying by one of our County Commissioners, who was the one fronting the lie about the purpose of the photos.

http://www.mddriversalliance.org/search/label/Forest Heights


"John O'Connor testified on Behalf of Optotraffic that photos cannot be used to show speed: "We do not use photos that are taken at two independent times to estimate speed. Why? Because it's inaccurate. You can't do it." and "The photo is actually just secondary evidence that the vehicle was there and it was in motion, that it was there at the time of the occurrence." [ O'Connor has identified himself as "Director of the Law Institute of Maryland" in his linkedin page... an organization which we could find no information for online other than a domain name registration which was opened on September 2011 and which recently expired. He lists himself as formerly the "Program Manager Automated Speed Enforcement Program Seat Pleasant Police Department", a town whose speed cameras are run by Optotraffic. That linkedin page also references the Optotraffic website (snapshot from 9/21/2012). O'Connor reportedly gave similar testimony to this effect on Optotraffic's behalf at numerous hearings.]

This testimony seems to conflict with Optotraffic's own technical document, which states that their equipment is supposed to be able to verify speed: “While the primary evidence for issuing a speeding citation is the calibrated Lane Sensor, the two photos provide the secondary evidence of speeding that is presented to the citation recipient.” and “Since a stationary object is present along with the vehicle, a photographic method also determines speed, guaranteeing fairness”.

you may get your wish someday .... with newer technology those speed cameras will come off the poles and be handheld speed cameras that fit in the officers hand. No need to pull you over, they'll just mail the $95 citation to your home. You should like this much better.

http://www.wlwt.com/news/handheld-speed-cameras-replace-automated-enforcement-in-new-miami/37757370

HOW IT WORKS

The Village of New Miami paid nothing for the Photo Laser System unit it’s currently using to ticket speeders there. The unit was provided to the village under a contract, approved by council and signed by Mayor Bob Henley on Dec. 3, 2015.

The PLS is the trade name for the radar unit, owned by Blue Line Solutions, LLC, an Athens, Tennessee company the village signed the contract with Dec. 3.

On July 17, 2015, Blue Line Solutions, LLC filed incorporation records with the Ohio Secretary of State’s Office. That filing came two months after the Village of New Miami passed an updated speed ordinance to the one that was outlawed in 2014.

Under the new speed camera program, officers use a sight on top of a laser to target a vehicle. A camera is attached to the side of the laser and is connected to a tablet inside the patrol car.

Through the sight, the officer can see the speed and distance, then pulls a trigger to capture the date, time, speed and GPS coordinates of the violation. That information, including a photograph of the vehicle and license plate, is wirelessly uploaded to Blue Line Solutions, LLC at the end of each day, VNMPD Chief Dan Gilbert told FOX19.

After review by a Village of New Miami police supervisor, the ticket is mailed to the registered owner and a fine of $95 is included.

The village and Blue Line Solutions, LLC split each $95 fine with one another. The village keeps 65 percent of the $95 fine while the private camera company keeps 35 percent.

The speed cameras as free for the village, provided to the village by the private contractor under the five year deal.


more at

http://www.fox19.com/story/31131347...as-includes-quota-in-speeding-ticket-contract
 
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Vince

......
Yeah! More cameras! Take away every little bit of personal privacy and freedom!! IT"S FOR THE CHILLLLLLLDREEEEN....LMAO give me a break.
Yep, just noticed the sign yesterday on Connector Rd from Rt 4 to Patuxent High. Speed Enforced by photos and a nice new camera on a pole. :doh:
 

glhs837

Power with Control
Two questions, what is the limit there? And how far away from the school is the camera? One commonly seen tactic is to drop the limit right before or after the cameras get placed, and also expanding the previous school zone (usually a few hundred feet out from the school entrance) out to the max legal limit of 1/4 mile in either direction.
 

Vince

......
Two questions, what is the limit there? And how far away from the school is the camera? One commonly seen tactic is to drop the limit right before or after the cameras get placed, and also expanding the previous school zone (usually a few hundred feet out from the school entrance) out to the max legal limit of 1/4 mile in either direction.
Heading from Rt 4 towards the Middle School, the camera is on the left right after you pass the Middle School. There is a sign right across from the Middle School that says something like "speed enforced by photo." Speed limit through that whole area is 35mph. They drop the dayum speed limit anymore in that area and I'll use the other road.
 

3CATSAILOR

Well-Known Member
Exactly,

I'm surprised they don't try to tell us that the money will go to support the poor little children who have nothing to eat in our schools and no shoes to put on their little feet.
 

glhs837

Power with Control
Exactly,

I'm surprised they don't try to tell us that the money will go to support the poor little children who have nothing to eat in our schools and no shoes to put on their little feet.

Becuase by law, they can only use that money for "public safety". One locality used it to refurb the Sheriffs office. And what happens is that the govt will drop tax based funding for the LEOs by whatever amount the cameras bring in. SO it's not like the Sheriff gets a boost. Just like the same old shill used about the Lottery money going to schools.
 

3CATSAILOR

Well-Known Member
Yep, and if you ask the local Sheriff if he got anything for it, he's going to say he is as poor as an alley cat.
 

LightRoasted

If I may ...
If I may ...

Just drive 10pmh over the speed limit and you'll be fine. Since going over 12 mph triggers the camera. So if it's 35 mph limit it's safe to do 45 mph. Just don't give the greedy bastards a chance to get your money. Remember, you are safe to go 10 mph over the limit in a camera zone, but not over 12 mph.
 

glhs837

Power with Control
If I may ...

Just drive 10pmh over the speed limit and you'll be fine. Since going over 12 mph triggers the camera. So if it's 35 mph limit it's safe to do 45 mph. Just don't give the greedy bastards a chance to get your money. Remember, you are safe to go 10 mph over the limit in a camera zone, but not over 12 mph.

True, very easy to not get a ticket. As long as the machine is working properly. Which you have no way to prove. As long as the operator keeps up with legally required maint and certifications, which you have no way to prove. And that the certifying officer is actually the one that verified your vehicle was really the one, but there have been documented cases in MD of dead officers signing off as the reviewer or a case where vendor personell used the login of a sworn officer to "clear a backlog" while he was on vacation.

Or if you drive a box truck or an RV, that maybe causes misreads, but you cant prove that because the system is rigged to remove any cahne you have of legally challenging a ticket. The point is not how easy it is to not get aa ticket, thats actually part of the shill. The real point is that enforcement for profit is Bad Thing. And lying to the citizenry that it's for safety when the most basic analysis shows there was not a problem that needed solved.
 
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