New Theater Coming Across from Wildewood?

[USWWarrior]

Steny supported the program because his fellow democrats from NY did as well. Canceling the program was a decision made by the Navy and SecDef

The people who are drinking the kool aid are the ones who believe that Pax is so unique it could not be replaced.

There are a lot of closed facilities that thought the same. Either the governemnt found a replacement OR they just didn't replace it.

DoD is taking significant hits in their budget. Soomer or later consolidation with the Army and Air Force is going to come back as an option.

We are already seeing aircraft built with COTS or NDI components not qualified for operation in the environments they are going to be used.
It's about dollars and the admirals here will through the base under the bus faster than you can say doo doo too. Captains and Admirals are as much politician as warrior. If CNO says consolidate so I can float boats, they'll close in a heartbeat.
Sane goes for the other services. The commanders will do what is n the best interest of the service, because it will also be in their best interest.

1. What did Steny do to try and save it? Nothing. Politicians all the time weigh in on program cancellations that affect their area. Prime example= DOD (Army) said to reduce the funding for tanks, Congress ignored their recommendation and went ahead and funded for more tanks. That is just one recent example. Congress could have kept the Helo program in the best interest of national security but chose to remain quiet.

2. Partly true. There could be "BRAC" of some capabilities at PAX. However in general, PAX is one of 2 locations for the Navy that has its uniques capabilities. The other location is on the left coast. The whole idea of a BRAC is to consolidate capabilities to save money. To move PAX to anywhere but the west coast facility would not be a cost savings. Even then, the cost to move it would be really expensive. The other option would be to create a "joint" venue with the Air force. Possible yes, likely, no. The cost savings just isnt there to make it viable. Moving PAX say to Andrews provides no savings. Moving PAX to somewhere like Florida would incur higher costs before the savings is realzied in 5-10 years if at all. Also, JSF is a prime example of a joint program that had more problems than anticipated because the requirements for the Navy and Air Force were so different because of ther operating environments. If you really looked at what has been "BRAC'd", they all made sense. Wiki will provide that information although I cannot guarentee its complete accuracy.

3. Yes huge budget hits are happening with more to come. Moving PAX would do nothing to prevent that or save any money. I wont speak about quality of what we are purchasing in this forum.

4. In 2005 13 "major facilities" (bases) were designated for closure under BRAC. Subsequently 6 of those bases were removed from the list (I dont know the reasons but this is where I think the politicians came in behind the scenes)

5. DOD went to Congress with a recommendation to conduct another two rounds of BRAC. Congress was cool to the idea and there are no more BRACS currently scheduled.

So with all do respect, you go ahead and keep kissing Steny's ass. We will just have to agree to disagree on what his value and influence to this area. Personally I firmly believe he is more worried about being Nancy's butt boy than he is with residents of St. Marys county or PAX employees. He has overstayed his time in Washington to really represent us.

I will continue to enjoy my kool-aid. I also will enjoy watching a movie in the new much needed theater.

 

[USWWarrior]

Looks like I created a #### storm. Didn't mean to, but, if anyone thinks that PAX operations can't be moved elsewhere, think again. I'm not a Hoyer fan but if anyone else doesn't realize that cloakroom deals on BRAC weren't done, you also need to think again.

The fact is that, whether it's true or not, Hoyer has run the last few elections as the "Savior of PAX". Or doesn't anyone ever really listen to what he says?

Getting back to the theater. Concessions and givebacks aren't needed. Too much of that goes on when it's really not needed. Just look at the breaks Calvert Cliffs got a couple years ago.

I am not that naive to think that discussions didnt take place. Just look at the places that were closed through the years, they actually made sense.

Here in St. Marys and southern Calvert he did. In PG county, he ran on the government helping you get what you deserve. Sadly, he did win St. Mary's because people are too afraid to vote an incumbent out of office.

Enjoy the movies.

 

[BernieP]

1. What did Steny do to try and save it? Nothing. Politicians all the time weigh in on program cancellations that affect their area. Prime example= DOD (Army) said to reduce the funding for tanks, Congress ignored their recommendation and went ahead and funded for more tanks. That is just one recent example. Congress could have kept the Helo program in the best interest of national security but chose to remain quiet.

2. Partly true. There could be "BRAC" of some capabilities at PAX. However in general, PAX is one of 2 locations for the Navy that has its uniques capabilities. The other location is on the left coast. The whole idea of a BRAC is to consolidate capabilities to save money. To move PAX to anywhere but the west coast facility would not be a cost savings. Even then, the cost to move it would be really expensive. The other option would be to create a "joint" venue with the Air force. Possible yes, likely, no. The cost savings just isnt there to make it viable. Moving PAX say to Andrews provides no savings. Moving PAX to somewhere like Florida would incur higher costs before the savings is realzied in 5-10 years if at all. Also, JSF is a prime example of a joint program that had more problems than anticipated because the requirements for the Navy and Air Force were so different because of ther operating environments. If you really looked at what has been "BRAC'd", they all made sense. Wiki will provide that information although I cannot guarentee its complete accuracy.

3. Yes huge budget hits are happening with more to come. Moving PAX would do nothing to prevent that or save any money. I wont speak about quality of what we are purchasing in this forum.

4. In 2005 13 "major facilities" (bases) were designated for closure under BRAC. Subsequently 6 of those bases were removed from the list (I dont know the reasons but this is where I think the politicians came in behind the scenes)

5. DOD went to Congress with a recommendation to conduct another two rounds of BRAC. Congress was cool to the idea and there are no more BRACS currently scheduled.

So with all do respect, you go ahead and keep kissing Steny's ass. We will just have to agree to disagree on what his value and influence to this area. Personally I firmly believe he is more worried about being Nancy's butt boy than he is with residents of St. Marys county or PAX employees. He has overstayed his time in Washington to really represent us.

I will continue to enjoy my kool-aid. I also will enjoy watching a movie in the new much needed theater.

1. You have no idea what you are speaking about, a non-executable program is NOT in the best interest of anyone but the company that's getting paid to spend money.

2. Please, you may believe there are things at PAX that are unique or cannot be replaced, but in reality it's not. If anything the airspace in and around Pax River are crowded. All bases on the East Coast are concerned with encroachment. Never believe you cannot be replaced. There are facilities that the Navy abandoned in the last BRAC that people thought could not be replaced. The Navy found alternatives. You would also be surprised what can be moved. I know of only one facility that could not be moved and because of unique geology could not be built elsewhare. The base was still closed and the facility was turned over to a private organization for operation.


I am not kissing Steny's arse, in fact I think he's full of shiat. He does no more for his district that every other congressman does for theirs.

I would add that the picture now is far different than what it was in 2005. The reason the sequestration hits were so hard was that in the president's budget there is a 17 to 24 percent reduction in the DoD budget planned for the next 10 years. This administration has roadmapped big bugget cuts for DoD. It will take more than deactivating divisions and ships to live witin that plan. Dollars are going to be real hard to come by as on one side defense cuts are seen as a way to fund social programs and the other is looking to balance the budget and do so quickly. The choice for the millitrary leadership won't be how much to cut, but where to cut. They have to look at their mission and how they can accomplish those missions.
If CNO has to use his Navy to project power, he has to find a way to keep his fleets at sea. If that means consolidating his labs with the Air Force, he'll suck it up and do so.

 

[USWWarrior]

1. You have no idea what you are speaking about, a non-executable program is NOT in the best interest of anyone but the company that's getting paid to spend money.

2. Please, you may believe there are things at PAX that are unique or cannot be replaced, but in reality it's not. If anything the airspace in and around Pax River are crowded. All bases on the East Coast are concerned with encroachment. Never believe you cannot be replaced. There are facilities that the Navy abandoned in the last BRAC that people thought could not be replaced. The Navy found alternatives. You would also be surprised what can be moved. I know of only one facility that could not be moved and because of unique geology could not be built elsewhare. The base was still closed and the facility was turned over to a private organization for operation.


I am not kissing Steny's arse, in fact I think he's full of shiat. He does no more for his district that every other congressman does for theirs.

I would add that the picture now is far different than what it was in 2005. The reason the sequestration hits were so hard was that in the president's budget there is a 17 to 24 percent reduction in the DoD budget planned for the next 10 years. This administration has roadmapped big bugget cuts for DoD. It will take more than deactivating divisions and ships to live witin that plan. Dollars are going to be real hard to come by as on one side defense cuts are seen as a way to fund social programs and the other is looking to balance the budget and do so quickly. The choice for the millitrary leadership won't be how much to cut, but where to cut. They have to look at their mission and how they can accomplish those missions.
If CNO has to use his Navy to project power, he has to find a way to keep his fleets at sea. If that means consolidating his labs with the Air Force, he'll suck it up and do so.

I have no idea what I am talking about? Interesting, but I can back it all up with facts can you? If the picture is so bleak, why is Congress denying the DOD the requested BRAC'S?

So what made it non executable? Were you on the program to say that? The program was very executable, the costs increases based on several factors contributed more. If you are saying those cost increases made it unexecutable, then I might agree. The political infighting between contractors and subcontractors after program was started didn't help matters either. The requirements creep contributed to its downfall also because the government failed to do its job correctly at the beginning. But the program was executable.

Sequestration hard? Really? It was hard on personnel. If it was really hard, the shipyards would have closed, the intelligence community would have not been exempted. Other exemptions would not have been granted. Sequestration was more of a political game than a true hardship. I see no reports reflecting how the sequestration really had a impact on anything but the workforce. I will admit, I am not at the higher levels of management or in the operational fleet, so I may not be aware of some of the impacts. But in today's social media environment, I would have expected to see and hear more than what was publicized.

This administration has roadmapped big bugget cuts for DoD. It will take more than deactivating divisions and ships to live witin that plan. Dollars are going to be real hard to come by as on one side defense cuts are seen as a way to fund social programs and the other is looking to balance the budget and do so quickly Thus the importance of checks and balance system called the 3 tiers of government. You will see government employees either being RIF'd or early retirement. This is almost a identical repeat of the mid 90's after Gulf I and the Clinton-Newt era. In other words, a reduction in the workforce will overtake moving of capabilites to other locations.

Name me those facilities. I looked over the list, nothing popped out to me as indespensible (spelling?).

Well I guess we just have a difference of opinion. I will respect yours even if I dont agree with it. Opposing points of view are good. I will say this, going with your theory, if PAX is BRAC'd, reduced, moved etc. This country, (yes country not county) will be in a whole lot of hurt economically which also translates to being vulnerable in other areas.

I guess time will tell which one of us was more accurate.

 

[fatratcat]

1. What did Steny do to try and save it? Nothing. Politicians all the time weigh in on program cancellations that affect their area. Prime example= DOD (Army) said to reduce the funding for tanks, Congress ignored their recommendation and went ahead and funded for more tanks. That is just one recent example. Congress could have kept the Helo program in the best interest of national security but chose to remain quiet.

2. Partly true. There could be "BRAC" of some capabilities at PAX. However in general, PAX is one of 2 locations for the Navy that has its uniques capabilities. The other location is on the left coast. The whole idea of a BRAC is to consolidate capabilities to save money. To move PAX to anywhere but the west coast facility would not be a cost savings. Even then, the cost to move it would be really expensive. The other option would be to create a "joint" venue with the Air force. Possible yes, likely, no. The cost savings just isnt there to make it viable. Moving PAX say to Andrews provides no savings. Moving PAX to somewhere like Florida would incur higher costs before the savings is realzied in 5-10 years if at all. Also, JSF is a prime example of a joint program that had more problems than anticipated because the requirements for the Navy and Air Force were so different because of ther operating environments. If you really looked at what has been "BRAC'd", they all made sense. Wiki will provide that information although I cannot guarentee its complete accuracy.

3. Yes huge budget hits are happening with more to come. Moving PAX would do nothing to prevent that or save any money. I wont speak about quality of what we are purchasing in this forum.

4. In 2005 13 "major facilities" (bases) were designated for closure under BRAC. Subsequently 6 of those bases were removed from the list (I dont know the reasons but this is where I think the politicians came in behind the scenes)

5. DOD went to Congress with a recommendation to conduct another two rounds of BRAC. Congress was cool to the idea and there are no more BRACS currently scheduled.

So with all do respect, you go ahead and keep kissing Steny's ass. We will just have to agree to disagree on what his value and influence to this area. Personally I firmly believe he is more worried about being Nancy's butt boy than he is with residents of St. Marys county or PAX employees. He has overstayed his time in Washington to really represent us.

I will continue to enjoy my kool-aid. I also will enjoy watching a movie in the new much needed theater.

Go Steny! Don't like? The junior flip that replaces him won't be able to sustain much when he's gone, but time will tell. PS--- I love the new movie theater too

 

[GW8345]

.........2. Please, you may believe there are things at PAX that are unique or cannot be replaced, but in reality it's not. If anything the airspace in and around Pax River are crowded. All bases on the East Coast are concerned with encroachment. Never believe you cannot be replaced. There are facilities that the Navy abandoned in the last BRAC that people thought could not be replaced. The Navy found alternatives. You would also be surprised what can be moved. I know of only one facility that could not be moved and because of unique geology could not be built elsewhare. The base was still closed and the facility was turned over to a private organization for operation......

Please tell the member here what other base has a fully functioning cat/trap.

BTW, there is only one other base with a functioning cat/trap, and does not have the other facilities the Pax has.

Sure the Navy can move testing from Pax, but it would have to break up everything that is done here to several other bases, thus costing more to test then it save to close down the base.

Before you tell someone they don't know what they are talking about, you might want to get all your facts straight yourself.

 

[fatratcat]

Please tell the member here what other base has a fully functioning cat/trap.

BTW, there is only one other base with a functioning cat/trap, and does not have the other facilities the Pax has.

Sure the Navy can move testing from Pax, but it would have to break up everything that is done here to several other bases, thus costing more to test then it save to close down the base.

Before you tell someone they don't know what they are talking about, you might want to get all your facts straight yourself.

Errr ummm Lakehurst? Do I win a prize? Free movie tickets? I must be in the wrong place? I thought this thread was about a movie theater...

•One 12,000-foot dedicated research and development test runway with a full scale aircraft carrier catapult and arresting gear

 

[officeguy]

So big deal, they leave the testing of the cat/trap mechanism at Pax and move everything else to a joint facility with the air-force out west. Pax gets some ANG unit and an 'industrial park' or 'logistics facility'.

 

[czygvtwkr]

So big deal, they leave the testing of the cat/trap mechanism at Pax and move everything else to a joint facility with the air-force out west. Pax gets some ANG unit and an 'industrial park' or 'logistics facility'.

One that PAX river does have is sea level, as far as I know most carriers are at sea level, it also has a very close proximity to a very large body of water and an area where they can drop ordnance.

One more thing is open RF spectrum, ever been to China Lake and tried to get an open frequency for data? It is close enough to Edwards that they have to coordinate, your testing can't run long, has to be scheduled farther in advance etc all because there is only so much open spectrum.

 

[BernieP]

Please tell the member here what other base has a fully functioning cat/trap.

BTW, there is only one other base with a functioning cat/trap, and does not have the other facilities the Pax has.

Sure the Navy can move testing from Pax, but it would have to break up everything that is done here to several other bases, thus costing more to test then it save to close down the base.

Before you tell someone they don't know what they are talking about, you might want to get all your facts straight yourself.

There was a fully functioning steam catapult system at the Navy Yard in Philadelphia, they said it couldn't be moved. It was moved to Lakehurst.

The Human Centrifuge Building in Warminster could not be moved, Navy said they would live without. The human performance work there was shipped out.

They can easily move that gear out to Edwards, China Lake or Pt. Mugu.

Most often cited "purple lab" complex is Edwards because of the space.

As for the question about sequestration, CNO had to hold off refueling two carriers, repairs were delayed on other ships as well as aircraft.
Contracts that were in place were not shut down, operational funding was in short supply.

Again, a previous congress denied BRAC. You have a new dynamic in place. Don't be so damn smug and think cuts aren't coming. I don't know where you all work, but our PM has put on a brave face of "can do", but is telling us to tighten the belt because we are going to take hits.

I will also not discuss in a public forum canceled programs. You might want to check with the PM who had the watch when it was shut down. About the only people I know who thought that program was viable worked for the prime. Secretary Gates scuttled the program, congress would have left it on life support because it put money into their districts.

I'll also remind you of a mindset, a quote from a formed CO at NAVAIR.
"NAVAIR does not add value". Translation, he would have been more than happy to give up his budget to the big corporations if it meant more planes.

If you want to know how irreplaceable you are, put your foot in a bucket of water, when you pull it out, the hole left behind his how much you will be missed.

 

[BernieP]

One that PAX river does have is sea level, as far as I know most carriers are at sea level, it also has a very close proximity to a very large body of water and an area where they can drop ordnance.

One more thing is open RF spectrum, ever been to China Lake and tried to get an open frequency for data? It is close enough to Edwards that they have to coordinate, your testing can't run long, has to be scheduled farther in advance etc all because there is only so much open spectrum.

Pt. Mugu is very close to a large body of water as well - with no land to fly over to get to it.

The trend, because it reduces cost (in theory) is to reduce flight test hours.
A number of our allies have done away with competition between the services by going to one service (see Canada). We are already developing systems jointly with the air force and the army (and coast guard). Expect it to grow.
Service chiefs will adapt as their budgets get tighter.
The good news for the Navy, and in particular NAVAIR, the GAO studies show that NAVAIR is at the top in terms of bringing programs in on budget with low rate of growth in requirements. According to the report, the Navy does a better job of managing their acquisition programs.

 

[czygvtwkr]

Most often cited "purple lab" complex is Edwards because of the space.

One of the most difficult things facing that consolidation would be water, something a lot of people wouldn’t think about. CA only has so much water, last time I was out there I found out that LA county was being fined a million dollars a day for sucking water dry from reservoirs. It was also election time and the sign I saw the most wasn’t for senator, governor etc, it was for water commissioner.
There are also environmental concerns, for a two week visit I was actually briefed for half a day about the local wild life and what to do if I encountered the desert tortoise and burrowing owl. The high desert environment is very fragile and the government is very cognizant of that fact, you think getting a new building here takes forever……

 

[BernieP]

One of the most difficult things facing that consolidation would be water, something a lot of people wouldn’t think about. CA only has so much water, last time I was out there I found out that LA county was being fined a million dollars a day for sucking water dry from reservoirs. It was also election time and the sign I saw the most wasn’t for senator, governor etc, it was for water commissioner.
There are also environmental concerns, for a two week visit I was actually briefed for half a day about the local wild life and what to do if I encountered the desert tortoise and burrowing owl. The high desert environment is very fragile and the government is very cognizant of that fact, you think getting a new building here takes forever……

There will be challenges, Pax has the bay to deal with, noise because of closer proximity to humans and since Maryland wants to put in wind turbines, the interference along the coast. St. Mary's County has been cognizant of land use impacts on base operations. The State of Maryland might not care as much.

I'm not saying it will happen, but anyone who thinks it's impossible is kidding themself. There are plently of DoD facilities that now stand vacant where peope once worked and thought they would never be closed.
Stuff that couldn't be moved, that was moved.

The last BRAC save jobs, the next round of budget cuts might not be so generous. We have the budget reconciliation act (which brought us sequestration), an adminsitration that is determined to cut defense to pay for social programs and a society where there are more people recieving benefits then working. More people who depend on the government than pay taxes.

 

[thurley42]

Is this a BRAC tread or movie tread?????

 

[BernieP]

Is this a BRAC tread or movie tread?????

yes

But I thought it was about the new theater ....

 

[MarieB]

Snce we are on the subject



A 17-member committee of retired defense leaders and corporate officials is calling for a new round of base closures as part of a plan to reduce Pentagon spending by $50 billion annually in coming years.

Speaking with reporters on Tuesday, members of the Defense Advisory Committee said the Defense Department is currently large enough to reshuffle missions without new construction and probably in a strong enough position to win political support for Base Realignment and Closure reviews.

In addition to a new round of BRAC, the committee also recommended reforming military retirement and health benefits and eliminating funding for unnecessary commissaries and exchanges. In its report, the panel suggested management reforms that would mean eliminating excess military and civilian personnel at headquarters and agency levels.

Cont

Defense Panel Recommends BRAC, Benefit Changes | Military.com

 

[Goldenhawk]

yes

But I thought it was about the new theater ....

I think we need a "This thread has been hijacked" icon for the main forum listing page. And a way to filter out all threads that are off topic.

Wait...

Nevermind... The page would be empty if we did that.

 

[SG_Player1974]

+1000

On the "hoodrat takover" idea.

I'd give it 6 months before people will start going back up to Arrundel Mills for movie viewing again.

 

[blazinlow89]

+1000

On the "hoodrat takover" idea.

I'd give it 6 months before people will start going back up to Arrundel Mills for movie viewing again.

To far of a walk for most of them.

 

[Pyrotech]

The nice part of the whole deal is Im pretty sure "those other two" slumlike theatres will be forced to upgrade or shut down. Im pretty sure they wont be able to keep up.