No, Christianity Should Not ‘Welcome’ or ‘Include’ Your Sinf

[GURPS]

the difference lies in, intent ....


are you still shacked up with your gf refusing to quit living in sin - :slam: you are out a here
are you living alone, and occasionally falling to resist the temptations of the flesh, or the bottle, or stealing, or lying or swearing, or ] - come on brother lets pray for strength and forgiveness

Matthew 18:15

15"If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over.

16But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.'

17If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

 

[CleanTheSlateInSMC]

Gee, that's sorta the topic of this thread in the first place. If people don't want to buy that Jesus and His teachings (which include the OT rules on morality) are the only way, then they should not be offended when they are invited to leave.

Because certainly Jesus would give them the boot, wouldn't he?

 

[vraiblonde]

Because certainly Jesus would give them the boot, wouldn't he?

Nice "gotcha"

 

[vraiblonde]

So, believing in the teachings of Jesus concerning sin, and that includes OT sin as well, is sanctimonious and exclusionary? Staying away, turning away, running away, from sin in a house of Christian worship, is wrong? Believing that is the same as believing there is no sin, really, at all.

Question: What do you believe in, if anything?

But I do agree with your second sentence. Why would they, except to stir things up, kicking and screaming, cause trouble and condemn something the homosexual communi-tuh! doesn't believe in, anyway? If they believed in Jesus, they would see the error of their ways and repent of those ways. But the homosexuals don't, and won't, because they believe in what they want for themselves, not what God wants.

Wherever you end up when you die, I want to go somewhere else. Perfect Hell would be eternity surrounded by people like you.

 

[Chuckt]

Matthew 18:15

15"If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over.

16But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.'

17If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

And have you gone to every single one or do you just pronounce judgment on them if they are sinners?

 

[Gilligan]

.. if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

LMAO. The IRS was viewed dimly even then. ;-p Didn't know the motorcycle gang also had a rep even back then.

Too bad they didn't come along much earlier. Would have been a classic rumble...The Pagans v. The Druids. Only on Pay-per-view, of course.

 

[Chuckt]

Matthew 18:15

15"If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over.

16But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.'

17If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Just curious though. I believe homosexuality is a sin but how is it a sin against you?

Psalm 51:4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.

I've always been taught that sin is against God so the scriptures say that David's sin with Bathsheba (see vs. 1) is against God and God alone (see verse 4.)

http://www.blbclassic.org/Bible.cfm?b=Psa&c=51&v=4&t=KJV#top

So your use of Matthew 18 seems a bit unjustified and I'm still waiting to hear your answer if you actually went to every single one of those homosexuals and if they neglected to hear you, I'm wondering how many you have taken to church about their sin.

 

[b23hqb]

Wherever you end up when you die, I want to go somewhere else. Perfect Hell would be eternity surrounded by people like you.

Be careful what you wish for, o blonde one.

 

[ProximaCentauri]

For many Christians, being a good Christian equates with intolerance. When it comes to gays, fundamentalist Christians are just as intolerant as Muslims. This thread just reminded me, as many threads in the religion forum do, of Gandhi's quote...

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”
― Mahatma Gandhi

 

[GURPS]

I am not an Orator .... Matt says it better

The propagators of the Nice Doctrine can be seen and heard from anytime any Christian takes any bold stance on any cultural issue, or uses harsh language of any kind, or condemns any sinful act, or fights against evil with any force or conviction at all. As soon as he or she stands and says ‘This is wrong, and I will not compromise,’ the heretics swoop in with their trusty mantras.

[clip]

They insist that Jesus was a nice man, and that He never would have done anything to upset people. They say that He came down from Heaven to preach tolerance and acceptance, and He wouldn’t have used words that might lead to hurt feelings. They confidently sermonize about a meek and mild Messiah who was born into this Earthly realm on a mission to spark a constructive dialogue.

Now, It’s true that He is God and we are not. Jesus can say whatever He wants to say. But we are called to be like Christ, which begs the question: what is Christ like?

Well, He is, among other things, uncompromising. He is intolerant of evil. He is disruptive. He is sometimes harsh. He is sometimes impolite. He is sometimes angry.

He is always loving.

Christ was not and is not a cosmic guidance counselor, and He is not mankind’s best friend, nor did He call us to be. He made dogs for that role — our destiny is more substantial, and our path to it is far more challenging and dangerous.

And nice?

Where does nice factor into this?

Nice: affable, peachy, swell.

Nice has nothing to do with Christianity. I’ve got nothing against nice — nice is nice — but even serial killers can be nice to people. They generally are exceptionally affable, except when they’re murdering. That means they’re nice to, like, 97 or 98 percent of everyone they meet.

I guess they’re following Christ almost all of the time, right?

Read more at http://themattwalshblog.com/2014/04...t-and-neither-should-you/#86xhImiJXfyc1CAA.99

 

[Radiant1]

Although I don't think Jesus preached tolerance per se, He certainly didn't send people away. He let them walk away, but He didn't send them away. Heck, He even kept Judas in his midst knowing full well what Judas was about, so that ought to tell us something.

When it comes to gays, fundamentalist Christians are just as intolerant as Muslims.

It's not just gays. It's unfortunate, but I find myself making comparisons between the two often enough. Ever watch a documentary called "Jesus Camp"? I watched it a few years ago and it was scary stuff!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Camp

At the camp, Fischer stresses the need for children to purify themselves in order to be part of the "army of God." She strongly believes that children need to be in the forefront of turning America toward conservative Christian values. She also feels that Christians need to focus on training kids since "the enemy" (other religions) is focused on training theirs. She compares the preparation she is giving children with the training of terrorists in the Middle East. "I want to see young people who are as committed to the cause of Jesus Christ as the young people are to the cause of Islam," she tells the camera. "I want to see them radically laying down their lives for the gospel, as they are over in Pakistan and Israel and Palestine."

Jesus Camp 101: How To Strap On A Bomb

 

[migtig]

Although I don't think Jesus preached tolerance per se, He certainly didn't send people away. He let them walk away, but He didn't send them away. Heck, He even kept Judas in his midst knowing full well what Judas was about, so that ought to tell us something.






It's not just gays. It's unfortunate, but I find myself making comparisons between the two often enough. Ever watch a documentary called "Jesus Camp"? I watched it a few years ago and it was scary stuff!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Camp


Jesus Camp 101: How To Strap On A Bomb

I think I went to that camp.


Back to the original topic, I see this as one of those personal dilemma struggles.

We are supposed to welcome all to our churches, regardless of who they are and what they've done and what sins they've committed.

We are not supposed to judge others. That's not our responsibility. We ourselves are not without sin.

However, we are not supposed to condone a continuation of a sinner sinning. We are supposed to share the word of G-d and encourage them to sin no more or be cast out.

So, it seems a bit contradictory.

However, IMHO, it means, sure, come to church gamblers, fornicators, and queers, etc. Hear about the word of G-d, the Gospel, the Truth, the Light, the Way. Choose salvation. Repent from your sins and sin no more. I am here to encourage you and keep you on that path of righteousness, like you are there to keep me from straying as well. And unless you come to me and tell me you are continuing your wicked ways, then I have no right to call you out for something I don't know about. But at the same time, the church and its congregation doesn't have the right to amend G-d's word to make a sinful lifestyle as acceptable as bread and butter with no consequences. That's not providing an opportunity for salvation and is doing a disservice to everyone.

Summary, you the individual are not the judge and jury of someone else's sin. However, unless one repents from their sin, they are not truly a Christian.

 

[Chuckt]

Summary, you the individual are not the judge and jury of someone else's sin. However, unless one repents from their sin, they are not truly a Christian.

It isn't gospel. You can't fully repent of a nature you have.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

http://biblehub.com/1_john/1-8.htm

So if you think you have repented and you have no sin, according to John 1:8, you have deceived yourself.

 

[Radiant1]

Summary, you the individual are not the judge and jury of someone else's sin. However, unless one repents from their sin, they are not truly a Christian.

You are not the judge and jury of one's sin, but you are the judge and jury of one's repentance, so in essence what you are saying is that you are the judge and jury of whether someone is a Christian or not. If you're comfortable with that, then so be it, but personally, I would never go there. I can explain to you why if you wish.

 

[ProximaCentauri]

It's not just gays. It's unfortunate, but I find myself making comparisons between the two often enough. Ever watch a documentary called "Jesus Camp"? I watched it a few years ago and it was scary stuff!Jesus Camp 101: How To Strap On A Bomb

I viewed a Jesus Camp snipet on youtube and yeah, scary. The leaders should probably be arrested, if there were only a law prohibiting this, for the brainwashing they are inflicting on such young children. This is the dark side of 'freedom of religion'.

But what's even scarier is when a neurosurgeon running for president, also happens to be a creationist and remarks that Darwin was influenced by the [Devil]. Only in the US, could a candidate like this not immediately become a laughing stock and be laughed off the national stage. When seemingly otherwise intelligent people, subvert their intelligence to believe in a biblical fairytale, its disturbing...and when they happen to be leading in the polls for the presidential nomination from one of the two major political parties in the US, it's frightening.

 

[b23hqb]

I viewed a Jesus Camp snipet on youtube and yeah, scary. The leaders should probably be arrested, if there were only a law prohibiting this, for the brainwashing they are inflicting on such young children. This is the dark side of 'freedom of religion'.

But what's even scarier is when a neurosurgeon running for president, also happens to be a creationist and remarks that Darwin was influenced by the [Devil]. Only in the US, could a candidate like this not immediately become a laughing stock and be laughed off the national stage. When seemingly otherwise intelligent people, subvert their intelligence to believe in a biblical fairytale, its disturbing...and when they happen to be leading in the polls for the presidential nomination from one of the two major political parties in the US, it's frightening.

You are scary, for sure. But then, you probably enjoy all the halloween and zombie movies going down as well. Just the thought that intelligent people, a scientist doctor at that, is not capable of running a country, in your mind, is indeed frightening.

 

[Chuckt]

But what's even scarier is when a neurosurgeon running for president, also happens to be a creationist and remarks that Darwin was influenced by the [Devil]. Only in the US, could a candidate like this not immediately become a laughing stock and be laughed off the national stage. When seemingly otherwise intelligent people, subvert their intelligence to believe in a biblical fairytale, its disturbing...and when they happen to be leading in the polls for the presidential nomination from one of the two major political parties in the US, it's frightening.

Most of the presidents that have run for office have listed their faith and what kind of church they went to. There was an actual book on it at college that listed every one. Do you find it disturbing that most of them had claimed a faith?

 

[cheezgrits]

Most of the presidents that have run for office have listed their faith and what kind of church they went to. There was an actual book on it at college that listed every one. Do you find it disturbing that most of them had claimed a faith?

No, it's not disturbing, just irrelevant.

 

[onel0126]

No, it's not disturbing, just irrelevant.

It wasn't irrelevant when the Protestant world went bat $hit crazy with the mere thought of Kennedy being elected purely because of his faith.

 

[b23hqb]

It wasn't irrelevant when the Protestant world went bat $hit crazy with the mere thought of Kennedy being elected purely because of his faith.

55 years ago, and obviously plenty of dem protestants voted for him as well. Were you even alive to experience the "bat chit crazy" that you allege happened? It didn't seem to bother my Protestant, conservative military parents.

But it is nice to see some of the resident catholics finally chime in on this topic of allowing practicing homosexuality and other sin blatantly in a church. What's your stand on that, which is the OP of this thread.