Once again the Deputies are not rewarded

[tom88]

Please talk to a cop about the drug and gang activity in St Mary's. I have.

What part about 'illegal' don't you get? The fact that they're here without proper (or legal) documentation makes them criminal. And it is criminal to get services and funds they are not LEGALLY entitled to. If I did it I'd be arrested for it.
Not to mention the amount of identity theft that takes place for them to get counterfeit documents. Illegal immigrants turn to identity theft - Technology & science - Security - msnbc.com


They ARE here in SOMD, and DO use the services, they ADD to the burden, and the are involved in criminal activity - whether it's using a stolen id for a job or drug & gang activity.

Now you are talking about services. Earlier you said this;

Taxpayers (REAL taxpayers - people who don't get any or little back on their returns and property owners) foot the bill for low/no income citizens and the illegals, all (who btw) account for most of the crime in the county.

Now now isn't that cute. I talk to cops DAILEY about crime in St. Mary's County. "They" (I am assuming you are talking about illegal aliens) are not utilizing the police resources as you claim.

Where are you getting your facts? What evidence is there to suggest illegal immigrants are stealing people’s identities.

I just came from the district court, and I didn’t see names of people who were illegal immigrants on the docket, but more often people whose families have been here since the 1600’s. (Unless you want to consider them illegals because nobody invited them, but their descendants are anchor babies don’t you know!)

I am on board with immigration reform, but you should stop regurgitating things you hear on television and cite them as fact in your community. It isn’t that way honey.

Further, some of the kids in the most recent gang activity were from a sub-division in California where the average price of a home is over 250,000 dollars. Doesn't really sound like a poverty stricken area to me sweat heart!

 

[Aerogal]

BOT- the issue is FUNDING.

The issue is that not all citizens are contributing to that funding but are using the services and resources that funding pays for.
The issue is non registered illegals using services (class room size, accomodation, school services as well as, health clinics, emergency services et... ) not whether or not they call the cops.
The issue is how much police work is initiated due to criminal activity (citizen and non alike), and the strain that puts on the services they provide to us.

Immigration doesn't need reform, it needs enforcement. And learn how to spell.

 

[tom88]

BOT- the issue is FUNDING.

The issue is that not all citizens are contributing to that funding but are using the services and resources that funding pays for.
The issue is non registered illegals using services (class room size, accomodation, school services as well as, health clinics, emergency services et... ) not whether or not they call the cops.
The issue is how much police work is initiated due to criminal activity (citizen and non alike), and the strain that puts on the services they provide to us.

Immigration doesn't need reform, it needs enforcement. And learn how to spell.

If that's what you meant originally why is it that you said this;

Taxpayers (REAL taxpayers - people who don't get any or little back on their returns and property owners) foot the bill for low/no income citizens and the illegals, all (who btw) account for most of the crime in the county.

You are talking out of your azz and now you want to criticize me for a typo. That is the typical idiot response. You find you are wrong on the first words spoken, so now lets use different rhetoric and attack the person who is proving you wrong.

I would like for you to point out to all these illegals here in the county and tell me where they are at? Granted, my kids don’t go to public schools but I still am in the community quite often and I don’t see them.

As earlier stated, I discuss crimes with deputies and troopers every day due to my employment. I haven’t heard about this wave of illegal immigrants in any of the three Southern Maryland Counties. Please tell wise one where you get your information from?

 

[Aerogal]

Why do we have an immigration reform board if there are no illegals in St Mary's County?


How to spot illegals in St Mary's: go to Walmart

 

[tom88]

Why do we have an immigration reform board if there are no illegals in St Mary's County?


How to spot illegals in St Mary's: go to Walmart

I've never heard of an "immigration reform board" in St. Mary's County, and how would you spot someone at Walmart and be able to tell they are an illegal immigrant? Is it because of their ethnicity?

 

[glhs837]

Actually, AG, you would find many more at Shoppers Food Warehouse than Walmart. But not the violent criminal type, I don't think. More of the landscape/roofer type, guilty of breaking immigration law, but not violent crime.

 

[tom88]

Actually, AG, you would find many more at Shoppers Food Warehouse than Walmart. But not the violent criminal type, I don't think. More of the landscape/roofer type, guilty of breaking immigration law, but not violent crime.

I'm curious why a landscaper/roofer would be guilty of breaking an immigration law, and how could you tell they were illegal aliens simply by their occupation?

 

[Merlin99]

Actually, AG, you would find many more at Shoppers Food Warehouse than Walmart. But not the violent criminal type, I don't think. More of the landscape/roofer type, guilty of breaking immigration law, but not violent crime.

As far as the landscapers go, a good portion of them are Mexican, trugreen flies them up in the spring and returns them in the late fall using TN work visas.

 

[glhs837]

I'm curious why a landscaper/roofer would be guilty of breaking an immigration law, and how could you tell they were illegal aliens simply by their occupation?

You cant tell just from the occupation, but because construction and other labor intensive jobs are reported to be very hard to compete with legal labor, those occupations have a much larger chance of being filled with illegals.. Now, does this mean every person you see on a labor crew who looks hispanic is an illegal? Nope. But that sort of occupation, around here, is where you would most likely find such. Eastern Shore? The chicken factories, DC and Baltimore, service industries.

 

[tom88]

You cant tell just from the occupation, but because construction and other labor intensive jobs are reported to be very hard to compete with legal labor, those occupations have a much larger chance of being filled with illegals.. Now, does this mean every person you see on a labor crew who looks hispanic is an illegal? Nope. But that sort of occupation, around here, is where you would most likely find such. Eastern Shore? The chicken factories, DC and Baltimore, service industries.

Could you tell me where you are getting your information that the Hispanics in St. Mary's County who are working construction or landscaping jobs are illegal immigrants? Could it not just as likely be that they are legal immigrants, like European immigrants before them, who are taking unskilled labor jobs in order to make ends meet?

I find that you are mostly a reasonable poster here and that is why I was surprised to see you falling into the rhetoric that these people are likely to be illegal immigrants, when they are just as likely to be not. It is this spoken word stereotype which puts these new immigrants to our country, or those who are invited here on temporary work visas in danger.

There are citizens who target these people. I have come in contact with the workers after having been victims of robberies and other crimes. I have yet to find that they are here illegally. To the contrary, they are hard working honest people trying to make a living for their families, but being prayed upon because thugs believe they are illegal and won’t report the crimes.

 

[glhs837]

And you have checked their immigration status? I base my assertion on the fact that there are very few visas allowed for manual labor of this sort, like farming, and there are not enough to go around. Things like this.....

EWIC - Essential Worker Immigration Coalition - National Roofing Contractors Association Testimony

But current law does not provide an adequate answer. Today, roofing companies such as mine are extremely limited in their ability to hire foreign workers. One option is the H-2B visa program, which is capped at 66,000 per year. The program is highly complex, and all non-agricultural industries compete for these scarce visas. Further, the program is temporary. If an employer has long-term or permanent position, that employer is out of luck since no long-term temporary visa exists in our current system. A second option would be to apply for a “green card”, but “green cards” are limited to 5,000 per year for essential workers, and currently there is a five- to 10-year waiting list. These limited programs and the complexity of immigration law make it difficult for roofing contractors nationwide to access a sustainable supply of essential workers.

and articles like this, that hint at the real ststus of the majority of the folks, but doesnt mail it down for your (get it, nail it down)

Who's on the roof: Immigrant labor shapes a summer industry | Minnesota Public Radio News

Note these sources are hardly right wing hit machines either........

 

[tom88]

And you have checked their immigration status? I base my assertion on the fact that there are very few visas allowed for manual labor of this sort, like farming, and there are not enough to go around. Things like this.....

EWIC - Essential Worker Immigration Coalition - National Roofing Contractors Association Testimony




and articles like this, that hint at the real ststus of the majority of the folks, but doesnt mail it down for your (get it, nail it down)

Who's on the roof: Immigrant labor shapes a summer industry | Minnesota Public Radio News

Note these sources are hardly right wing hit machines either........

Ok, so in this quote;

Originally Posted by glhs837
You cant tell just from the occupation, but because construction and other labor intensive jobs are reported to be very hard to compete with legal labor, those occupations have a much larger chance of being filled with illegals..

You are saying American citizens can't get these jobs, and then as a resource to prove that Illegal immigrants are taking the jobs you provide this quote;

The Subcommittee's hearing on President Bush's proposal is particularly important given the labor demographics the American economy faces today and in the approaching decades. Like many of the family-owned member companies of NRCA, Texas Roofing Company has found it difficult to meet its labor demands solely through relying on the domestic workforce. In fact, I would estimate that 95 percent of my workforce today is Latino, most of whom were not born in the United States. This composition is not uncommon in the roofing industry, but it is in stark contrast to the workforce of my grandfather, L. Randolph Rampy, Sr., who founded his own roofing contracting firm in Lubbock nearly 70 years ago. I have a photograph taken in 1946 on the wall in my office, and in that photograph you'll see my grandfather's employees and notice that, with the exception of two employees, all of the men in the photograph are Caucasian.

Note: No where does he say that the employees are illegal imigrants. He goes on to say;


Despite this relatively attractive pay, which is even higher in other sections of the country, roofing contractors have jobs going unfilled because there are few domestic applicants

EWIC - Essential Worker Immigration Coalition - National Roofing Contractors Association Testimony
But current law does not provide an adequate answer. Today, roofing companies such as mine are extremely limited in their ability to hire foreign workers. Again, where does he say he is using illegals. Quite the contrary, he states that he is limited in hiring foreign workers.

Do you see the ignorance of your argument?

And in the other article, there is a guy who is interviewed who says he doesn't hire illegal immigrants but others do? WTF?

 

[glhs837]

I didnt say Americans couldnt get the jobs, but that as a company, if you hire Americans at the wages they want, you cannot compete.


The point is between the lines. If they cant hire legal immigrants, and they are still in business they must be getting workers from somewhere. That's why the praise for Bushs plan, it would have given them the pool of legals to hire from.

 

[tom88]

I didnt say Americans couldnt get the jobs, but that as a company, if you hire Americans at the wages they want, you cannot compete.


The point is between the lines. If they cant hire legal immigrants, and they are still in business they must be getting workers from somewhere. That's why the praise for Bushs plan, it would have given them the pool of legals to hire from.

Originally Posted by glhs837
You cant tell just from the occupation, but because construction and other labor intensive jobs are reported to be very hard to compete with legal labor, those occupations have a much larger chance of being filled with illegals..

Well what did you mean when you said this?

The point is, people are hiring legal American citizens who happen to be Hispanic. You asked if I have checked documentation? Yes. Due to the nature of my work, I need to know as much about a victim of a crime as possible. So yes, some of the people who are victims in St. Mary's County, (much I would say because of the propoganda you continue to promulgate) are either American citizens or are here legally. They are however, harrassed put apon and looked down by people soley because of their race and imagined illegal immigration status.

This is very similar to when my great grandfather came to this country and couldn't find work because of his ethnic origin. He was forced to take jobs at lower wages in order to build a life for his family and future generations. That's the American way.

 

[glhs837]

I never said all those working such occupations are illegal, just that the majority of illegals working in this county would most likely be found working such occupations.

I dont doubt there are Hispanic folks who are here legally who work these jobs. Nor that some of them are victimized because of the perception that all of them are here illegally. And that's a bad thing. But it seeems to me that my point of view allows for yours to be true, mostly, anyway, but not vice versa.

Are you trying to tell me that every Hispanic I see on a landscaping crew or roofing crew, or acting as laborers on construction sites are legally here? If so, sorry, but that I just cannot believe. The percentage of legals vs illegals on such crews? Not sure how you would get that, I'm sure data is hard to come by.

In any case, I am not belitting these folks, I understand why they are here, and only hold them responsible for their part in it. The policies that lead to such a stupid way of doing things was not and is not right. I'm not a "pack'em in rail cars and send em back home" sort of guy. You want to live here and bust your ass to make a better life? Welcome to America, but you gotta follow the rules.

 

[sparkyaclown]

This probably won't be a popular opinion, but I'm kind of impressed that the CC's set a budget and weren't bullied or frightened into throwing cash at what someone else perceives as a problem.

Ok, then can you explain to me how FDR Blvd. is more beneficial to all the citizens of St. Marys county than education and law enforcement?

 

[Mr.Steed]

Steed, I wouldnt mind paying more myself, if I had any real assurance it wouldn't get blown like a kid in a candy store. I do love how you speak of sweetheart land deals and lack of funding in the same sentence. How much was given in that sweetheart deal to buy the farm? More than enough to fund the shortfalls in both BOE and Sheriffs requests, I think. I dont mind giving the businees owners that create jobs a break, I do mind the govt showering favored citizens with my money for a thing worth far less than what we paid. Not just that land deal, but the lot lease of Bells old lot too.

Unless they stop spending it unwisely, I dont want to give them more.

I agree 100% with you, glhs837, about the purchase of the Hayden Farm, absolutely despicable! And anyone who has been in St. Mary's for any length of time (whose head is not buried in the sand), knows well that County gov. and developers have had a most symbiotic relationship. Am hoping that the new BOCC members possess some integrity.

Am also hoping that the FDR BLVD project (where it is most needed) is completed, resulting in better traffic patterns and ease of congestion. Much of the "stuff" that now assaults the California area never should have been approved until proper infrastructure was in place. But the problem is, that in part, the County is relying on developers to foot the bill. Seems like you can't have one without the other, so the County says!

Lastly, with regard to Comm. Cindy Jones - LEAVE THE WOMAN ALONE!!!

 

[tom88]

Are you trying to tell me that every Hispanic I see on a landscaping crew or roofing crew, or acting as laborers on construction sites are legally here? If so, sorry, but that I just cannot believe. The percentage of legals vs illegals on such crews? Not sure how you would get that, I'm sure data is hard to come by.

I don't know. I can only tell you anecdotal information about the ones that I have met. 100% of the ones I have met have been here legally. But I can tell you that I have an Irish cousin who came here ten years ago on a student visa which has long since expired. He is an illegal alien, but nobody would look at him and draw that conclusion.

What I am saying is wrong with your view point is you pointed out to people that in order to find illegal aliens, look for the Hispanic or Latino’s at Walmart who are roofers or lawn care types. This sort of stereotype hurts those who are here legally and is quite a racist point of view.

I am not putting my head in the sand and saying there are no illegal aliens, but I believe you have to have proof of something before you go making accusations or pointing out something based on a theory and point it out as fact. That’s what you did and I feel you are wrong!

 

[MrZ06]

2 - Why can't you do what private business would do. Keep the lower salaried teachers and layoff the higher salaried teachers and in doing so, lay off fewer. Wouldn't that be better for the students? It's all about the students right?

private businesses don't lay off simply based on salary. They layoff based on performance.

 

[glhs837]

Go right ahead and feel that way. I know there are other nationalities represented in the mix of illegal aliens. I'm sure there are some in the county right now. But the stats don't lie. And you are much more likely to find illegal aliens in a roofing crew or a landscaper crew, and they are more likely to be Hispanics. That's not racism, that's reality.

If I said every Hispanic you saw was here illegally, or claimed they were all violent criminals, or the members of every roofing crew were illegals, those would all be racist statements. But I didnt, and I said Shoppers, not WalMart

Take your race card and shove it. According to the Pew Hispanic Center, %77 of illegals are Hispanics. Fact, not bias. %25 of landscapers, and %27 or drywall installers. The roofers would come under the %10 of construction workers, but I think the skilled trades keep that overall percentage low.

LandscapeOnline.com :: Article : Report: 1 in 4 Landscape Workers Undocumented

http://pewhispanic.org/files/reports/46.pdf