Salaries in PAX.

[Gilligan]

Yeah, given what lives here, and the amount of stuff that's being added, pretty sure BRAC isn't a concern. No place to fit NAVAIR, and duplicating the facilities out in China Lake/Edwards/Eglin would cost far more than any savings you get. along with the associated manpower losses you would suffer when folks refused to pack up.

That's along the same lines I was thinking. Anyone who thinks Pax is a BRAC candidate probably isn't aware how many activities and functions were moved TO Pax during the last rounds.

 

[Bird Dog]

You really think that they would shut down Pax?

There has been some talk about base reductions...but not a lot of political support for it.

http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/capitol-hill/2015/05/18/ndaa-new-brac-study/27524421/

Steny will save us..........

 

[glhs837]

I know they converted of ordnance engineering techs from contract to GS within the last few years, and I'm pretty sure none of them hold a degree. I'm thinking at least four or five of them.

 

[Gilligan]

Steny will save us..........

Always has before, right? LMAO.

 

[Gilligan]

It was amazing how many had their BS/BA from top tier or ivy league universities, and then had their master's from University of Phoenix (or similar). As if they were told they had to have a masters in order to get promoted, but it didn't matter where from (because it wasn't a technical OPM requirement, just a NAVAIR hiring preference).

Isn't that also simply a consequence of needing to get the degree "on line" whilst working at the same time? When I was going for my Masters as a GS-7 or 9 engineer back in the 80s, it was like trying to hit a moving target because the advanced degree programs that our activity had access to kept changing. I changed majors twice...

 

[Gilligan]

Times have changed, there are a dozen (or more) online programs offered by real regionally accredited universities that are partnered with the distance learning center here at PAX. There are hundreds available outside of that if you look on your own. The only reason to go with a for profit (I.E. diploma mill school) is if you want a guarantee of graduation and easy work.

I shoulder surfed a co-workers degree work for his Information Security Master's from Capella, and I am fairly certain my 90 year old grandmother who has never operated a computer could have passed the program.

Gotcha. One of the programs I was enrolled in was from George Washington and the other from George Mason, with other course providers sprinkled in there on almost an ad hoc basis. It was tough, going to work, with TDY, and still maintain any sort of coherent degree-track progress.

 

[wubbles]

Online courses add tons and tons of work to make up for no class time. It's a massive grind. I HIGHLY recommend taking classes in person at Frank Knox or the SMHEC at one of the schools that offer full programs. It might seem terrible to work all day then go to a 3 hr class at night but you'll have considerably less time invested overall. It might sound nice to be able to do your course work on CWS Fridays and weekends at your leisure but I found the massive amount of "homework" to be way worse than having 2-3 really long days each week with a lighter homework load on the days off. I guess this doesn't matter as much if your job work load is light enough you can do coursework doing the workday though. Seen a lot of people go that route too.

 

[FED_UP]

Online courses add tons and tons of work to make up for no class time. It's a massive grind. I HIGHLY recommend taking classes in person at Frank Knox or the SMHEC at one of the schools that offer full programs. It might seem terrible to work all day then go to a 3 hr class at night but you'll have considerably less time invested overall. It might sound nice to be able to do your course work on CWS Fridays and weekends at your leisure but I found the massive amount of "homework" to be way worse than having 2-3 really long days each week with a lighter homework load on the days off. I guess this doesn't matter as much if your job work load is light enough you can do coursework doing the workday though. Seen a lot of people go that route too.

Several years back I had this one beotch rat on me for doing my class work at the work desk, so that depends who is around you and who cares. The place I am in now no one cares if others are doing class work.

 

[acommondisaster]

I'm not an engineer, but last year when I was hunting for a new contract to hop onto, I found that the IT jobs within my company paid 30 to 40 percent lower to work at PAX than I get working in the DC area. Could just be the contracts they've won, of course, but both PAX and Dahlgren were low enough to keep me commuting into the city.

 

[Gilligan]

I found that the IT jobs within my company paid 30 to 40 percent lower to work at PAX than I get working in the DC area. .

Wow..that's a huge differential if it's the same position.

I've got a bad feeling about the way contracts are being bid and awarded at Pax, Dahlgren, and Carderock (which includes Little Creek activities that we support). If rates and fees get pushed down further and further every single round of competition, where does it end....and wtf is the government going to be getting for the dollars spent??

 

[pelers]

Wow..that's a huge differential if it's the same position.

I've got a bad feeling about the way contracts are being bid and awarded at Pax, Dahlgren, and Carderock (which includes Little Creek activities that we support). If rates and fees get pushed down further and further every single round of competition, where does it end....and wtf is the government going to be getting for the dollars spent??

What do you think the government is getting for dollars spent? As contracts get renewed the rates for them get slashed, and if the contractors want to keep their position they are looking at massive paycuts. Every time the contract is renewed. The qualified, experienced people are bailing, if they can, and are being replaced with people with little to no experience. Probably looks great on the cost spreadsheets short term, but long term isn't going to be pretty.

 

[glhs837]

What do you think the government is getting for dollars spent? As contracts get renewed the rates for them get slashed, and if the contractors want to keep their position they are looking at massive paycuts. Every time the contract is renewed. The qualified, experienced people are bailing, if they can, and are being replaced with people with little to no experience. Probably looks great on the cost spreadsheets short term, but long term isn't going to be pretty.

I was lucky, relatively speaking, to be kept under a double digit cut, but I heard repeated horror stories of hundreds of people being faced with anywhere from +20% to 50% cuts. Suck it up or hit the door.

 

[Agee]

What do you think the government is getting for dollars spent? As contracts get renewed the rates for them get slashed, and if the contractors want to keep their position they are looking at massive paycuts. Every time the contract is renewed. The qualified, experienced people are bailing, if they can, and are being replaced with people with little to no experience. Probably looks great on the cost spreadsheets short term, but long term isn't going to be pretty.

Exactly, experiencing this now at my company. Sub-contractors that bid entry level engineers/technicians with over-exaggerated experience. In the defense contractor business I'll take experience over education any day. Pay me know or pay me later...

 

[Gilligan]

What do you think the government is getting for dollars spent? As contracts get renewed the rates for them get slashed, and if the contractors want to keep their position they are looking at massive paycuts. Every time the contract is renewed. The qualified, experienced people are bailing, if they can, and are being replaced with people with little to no experience. Probably looks great on the cost spreadsheets short term, but long term isn't going to be pretty.

Uh..I meant my question to be rhetorical..because the answers were fairly clear. But you did lay them out, in all their glory. What a mess.

 

[pelers]

Uh..I meant my question to be rhetorical..because the answers were fairly clear. But you did lay them out, in all their glory. What a mess.

I figured you did, but this issue has been making me twitchy for awhile now. Sorry for jumping up and down all over it.

 

[BernieP]

Wow..that's a huge differential if it's the same position.

I've got a bad feeling about the way contracts are being bid and awarded at Pax, Dahlgren, and Carderock (which includes Little Creek activities that we support). If rates and fees get pushed down further and further every single round of competition, where does it end....and wtf is the government going to be getting for the dollars spent??

People who can will move or commute, those who don't want to make the commute, but can't move will take the cuts.
I'm told NAVAIR as a whole, is several hundred bodies over where they need to be. Some competencies are extremely short staffed but there is a no hire, no promotion policy in place for at least all of 4.0. That's the CS way of pushing down salary. They will eventually push out the good senior level people who are frozen, and when they can hire it will be at lower pay grades.

 

[HeavyChevy75]

IF you are being interviewed to work on the big IMD contract I wouldn't expect the pay to be 86K. They lost several senior staff because they cut our pay so much. Some of us had 10-15 years experience, advanced degrees and the contact. I took a 10% cut in pay which took every single raise that I had during the 5 years I worked there. Imagine how that felt having all your hard work of raises removed just like that.

I don't work for IMD anymore. Actually work for the VA as a contractor. I FINALLY am almost back to what I was making at NAVAIR. I have a high specialized skill set and when I add my CISSP certification along with my MS degree that will give me some negotiation power again. I am going to work on getting my Navy Validator skill set done or becoming ISSO with a medical center.

 

[KingFish]

I completely understand, and to be sure many online programs are quite challenging even if you don't have a hectic schedule. Another one of my co-workers just received his Masters of EE from (I believe). For the last couple of years he has been pulling his hair out at night and spending virtually every second of free time (weekends/holidays) studying. I would like to think that in the long run he will benefit more from that experience than if he had chosen the easy route. His experience is the main reason I haven't pursued an online master's myself.

I worked full time and drove to Laurel at night earning my BSEE and then drove to JHU to get my MSEE. I know what it was like studying every chance I got. Now after 10 years break, I am slated to start on a DBA in May.

 

[Gilligan]

I figured you did, but this issue has been making me twitchy for awhile now. Sorry for jumping up and down all over it.

oh heck ...believe me, I get that. It's painful to me to watch it unfold as it has been, and we are not at all dependent on those kind of contracts anyway. I can't imagine the pain within the companies who are totally dependent on that kind of work.

 

[Gilligan]

People who can will move or commute, those who don't want to make the commute, but can't move will take the cuts.
I'm told NAVAIR as a whole, is several hundred bodies over where they need to be. Some competencies are extremely short staffed but there is a no hire, no promotion policy in place for at least all of 4.0. That's the CS way of pushing down salary. They will eventually push out the good senior level people who are frozen, and when they can hire it will be at lower pay grades.

Sounds like a very good overall strategy for building a solid and effective organization, with high morale all around. Wish I worked there.

;-(