Sessions: Marijuana only slightly less awful than heroin

[Larry Gude]

If they are going to make it legal they should allow it's growth in your garden, .

Yup.

 

[Hijinx]

So, let me ask. Where do you get the idea anyone is advocating for public intoxication? On the job or otherwise?

Larry why are we arguing. You know my stand and I know yours and neither of us will change our minds. This has gone on for years and we both know your side will eventually win. Lets just move on./

 

[SamSpade]

But you'd agree there can be, and are, casual users/drinkers that don't drink themselves into stupor, yes?

Well *I* do. But I also have alcoholics in my family, as well as heroin addicts and weed users.
I also have a niece whose mother got her addicted to heroin when she was 12.
I had to leave her daughter at the house alone when she was eight so I could go find her mom - wherever she decided to fall asleep for the night.

I don't know of a casual weed user that isn't - for lack of a better work - a dumber version of who they used to be.
Same as those who were "occasional" drinkers but in reality - occasional meant at least once a day they were hammered.
Brain cells can only take so much abuse. It breaks my heart to see highly intelligent people turn themselves into nitwits because of drugs and alcohol.

 

[Larry Gude]

Larry why are we arguing.

It's a discussion forum. It's not a forum only for people who think the war on drugs is dumb or only folks who think it is smart. I don't smoke weed and have no plans to even when it is legal. The only tool we have, besides violence, is persuasion. I'd rather you choose to rethink your position, or I mine, based on logic and reasoning and a little wisdom rather than throw ones arms up and just quit. There ARE legitimate concerns of intoxication, people wasting time and money and harming others by being high. However, I weigh that against the things we know about crime and the violence and the corruption and the loss of respect for the law, the cynicism, that comes from one position winning over another when it can no longer hold it's own weight and is shown to have been deceitfully holding what little weight it ever had.

 

[GURPS]

I don't know of a casual weed user that isn't - for lack of a better work - a dumber version of who they used to be.
Same as those who were "occasional" drinkers but in reality - occasional meant at least once a day they were hammered.
Brain cells can only take so much abuse.

Indeed, however I know a guy, worked in and out of the Fed. Gov [finally retiring 5 yrs ago] smoked about an Ounce a month ... for years
went to work every day, paid his bills, did great IT work


but I agree overall you are correct ...

 

[Larry Gude]

I don't know of a casual weed user that isn't - for lack of a better work - a dumber version of who they used to be. .

Is that the sum total? Or, are they less stressed than before? Or more stressed? More consistent? Or less? I'm asking because I tend to agree that habitual pot smokers are, for lack of a better word, lazier. I don't know about dumber.

 

[terbear1225]

Those who want it legal always say that, but I always wonder why they want it legal so badly.

because my tax dollars are going to fund a war that doesn't need to be fought?

because people are spending time in jail for possessing something in quantities that is no more harmful to them than a six pack?

because we've been fed a line of BS on the dangers of casual use that makes it hard to belief any of the legitimate horror stories that are out there?

I am not a user, never have been, never intend to but I can see valid reasons for legalization (with the same basic regulation as with alcohol)

 

[SamSpade]

Is that the sum total? Or, are they less stressed than before? Or more stressed? More consistent? Or less? I'm asking because I tend to agree that habitual pot smokers are, for lack of a better word, lazier. I don't know about dumber.

I have in mind at least two people I know who grew up brilliant - but for weed, their mind is too foggy to do what they could. I saw a girl I knew beat a man with a PhD in Plasma Physics at chess (chess is one of those things where high IQ just *helps* but it's no guarantee of mastery) - and then for the rest of the evening be unable to concentrate long enough to make a logical point or even remember trivial things. Her mom would tell me one day "Sue could have done anything if it hadn't been for the drugs". We'd play Trivial Pursuit - and she'd win - for a while - until the brain fog returned and she couldn't keep her mind on whose turn it was. I knew her well enough to know there once lived a very smart person in there. But no more.

The other is a family member whose knowledge of technology and computers PROBABLY exceeds mine - but it's constantly locked up in brain fog where he can't concentrate longer than ten or fifteen minutes. Known him for many, many years. A very smart man whose genius was wiped out by years of drugs. He likely is less ambitious than he once was - I think he could have done a lot, but I think it's too late now.

 

[Larry Gude]

I have in mind at least two people I know who grew up brilliant - but for weed, their mind is too foggy to do what they could. I saw a girl I knew beat a man with a PhD in Plasma Physics at chess (chess is one of those things where high IQ just *helps* but it's no guarantee of mastery) - and then for the rest of the evening be unable to concentrate long enough to make a logical point or even remember trivial things. Her mom would tell me one day "Sue could have done anything if it hadn't been for the drugs". We'd play Trivial Pursuit - and she'd win - for a while - until the brain fog returned and she couldn't keep her mind on whose turn it was. I knew her well enough to know there once lived a very smart person in there. But no more.

The other is a family member whose knowledge of technology and computers PROBABLY exceeds mine - but it's constantly locked up in brain fog where he can't concentrate longer than ten or fifteen minutes. Known him for many, many years. A very smart man whose genius was wiped out by years of drugs. He likely is less ambitious than he once was - I think he could have done a lot, but I think it's too late now.

That is certainly the fear. That said, can we just assume they would have been happy, healthier and more productive and fulfilled or would they have been depressed, perhaps even suicidal otherwise? I ask because there has to be some allowance for what people choose to do. If they were that smart, doesn't that clearly imply a certain amount, or even a great deal of willful choice that they'd rather get high all the time than be who they were? How many outstanding people pursue and achieve their way through life and wake up one day simply miserable? I say all that to say if we are a free people, a land of the brave, don't we have to accept adults making that choice? Further, doesn't people having that free will help others to then see the loss and destruction and take counsel of those fears and choose to NOT use drugs?

 

[officeguy]

You can rest assured they will keep it illegal to be grown in your own back yard.
If they are going to make it legal they should allow it's growth in your garden, after all it's just a weed.

Drug policy is about control. That'll never happen.

Think of all the children who could get harmed if they wandered into your vegetable garden and foraged on your plants !!

 

[SamSpade]

That is certainly the fear. That said, can we just assume they would have been happy, healthier and more productive and fulfilled or would they have been depressed, perhaps even suicidal otherwise? I ask because there has to be some allowance for what people choose to do. If they were that smart, doesn't that clearly imply a certain amount, or even a great deal of willful choice that they'd rather get high all the time than be who they were? How many outstanding people pursue and achieve their way through life and wake up one day simply miserable? I say all that to say if we are a free people, a land of the brave, don't we have to accept adults making that choice? Further, doesn't people having that free will help others to then see the loss and destruction and take counsel of those fears and choose to NOT use drugs?

Known them all a long time. Probably the most tragic is my youngest sister, who was a young ambitious genius.

“Of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these, 'It might have been.”

 

[Monello]

The prohibition on pot is going about as well as the prohibition on alcohol went. Lots of people getting high right now. Legalize pot and tax the thc out of it. Remove the criminal element from it. There is an incredible underground economy associated with pot. Currently the government doesn't profit from any of that illegal sale. 7 decades of futility has shown that pot will always be around. Let companies still test for it and make it know to their employees that anyone smoking, even if legal, will be terminated. How many people that currently get drug tested would get high knowing their employer would never find out?

 

[This_person]

I'm sorry, Larry. You tell me, what ARE my real feelings?

if you believe, for ONE second, ANY evidence that even suggests that statement to be remotely true, no real evidence nor, apparently, any real life experience or notice of the papers is going to dissuade you.

Real life experience is anecdotal. I know of a man who has been hit repeatedly by lightening and is alive - does that mean since I have a story it's just hunky dorey to get hit by lightening?

Show the evidence. I don't need to see it, I pay people to look at it for me, and they've classified pot in the same category as heroin. Where are they wrong? What study did they use, and how is it inaccurate?

 

[This_person]

But you'd agree there can be, and are, casual users/drinkers that don't drink themselves into stupor, yes?

I would agree with that. I'd agree that some people can travel 197 mph down an interstate at 3AM and never hurt a soul - doesn't mean I want to change the speed limit.

 

[officeguy]

The prohibition on pot is going about as well as the prohibition on alcohol went. Lots of people getting high right now. Legalize pot and tax the thc out of it. Remove the criminal element from it. There is an incredible underground economy associated with pot. Currently the government doesn't profit from any of that illegal sale.

Actually, they do. Through the magic of forfeiture. Many police cars have been bought with cash taken off pot dealers. Also, plenty of federal and state money that is contingent on fighting the 'war on drugs'.

 

[Chris0nllyn]

I would agree with that. I'd agree that some people can travel 197 mph down an interstate at 3AM and never hurt a soul - doesn't mean I want to change the speed limit.

Sure, but why change the speed limit (DUI Laws)? So far we've been worried about what car someone is driving (marijuana vs. alcohol).

It's like saying the speed limit is 55. You can drive a Honda Civic, but you can't drive a Toyota Corolla.

 

[Chris0nllyn]

Actually, they do. Through the magic of forfeiture. Many police cars have been bought with cash taken off pot dealers. Also, plenty of federal and state money that is contingent on fighting the 'war on drugs'.

Not to mention the more non-tangible items like keeping lawyers, cops, judges, clerks, etc. in a steady stream of work.

 

[jg21]

Good discussion. What I know for sure is...When my buddy (never me) tokes a little on the golf course, I suddenly become funnier. And a better golfer.

 

[Chris0nllyn]

Good discussion. What I know for sure is...When my buddy (never me) tokes a little on the golf course, I suddenly become funnier. And a better golfer.

Golf. The sport where you can drink (or smoke) and drive.

 

[Clem72]

Wow, there goes all my Dope stocks

Not all. Philip Morris is going strong and is a solid pick for long term dividend appreciation.