Tax reform

[Pete]

Yes but in your example if you are getting a reduced tax rate and you therefore have an additional X dollars a month you aren't going to buy twice as much meat to feed your family.


What you describe above is economics. The trickle down part is where republicans try to convince people they will benefit from corporate tax cuts by buying twice as much meat and stimulating the economy which is unproven

No but you buy other goods and services because now you have more disposable income. Also employers have more revenue so wages can increase. Increased profits also increase dividends on stocks which grow retirement funds. Money that goes to the government goes there to die. Money back into the economy triggers growth.

 

[Gilligan]

Nice thought...exceeding naïve.

That theory just doesn't hold water

Your post is a lot of wishful thinking. it fails the reality test of

Damn, Pete. Bam!...just.....Bam!

;-p

 

[Sapidus]

No but you buy other goods and services because now you have more disposable income. Also employers have more revenue so wages can increase. Increased profits also increase dividends on stocks which grow retirement funds. Money that goes to the government goes there to die. Money back into the economy triggers growth.

There is no proof of that. People carry less debt. That is the only thing proven. There is no evidence people Spend more or companies higher more.

 

[Gilligan]

There is no proof of that. People carry less debt. That is the only thing proven. There is no evidence people Spend more or companies higher more.

There is ONLY proof of that.

 

[PsyOps]

Will you liberals please explain to me why you are suddenly for tax cuts and concerned about the national debt? When democrats had full control when Obama entered the White House in '09 they decided it was more important to take control of 1/6 of our economic, which resulted in higher taxes - particularly on the middle class - and criminal healthcare system.

So, now they are suddenly talking about tax cuts for the middle class, and concern over the impact of the debt. Democrat control resulted in doubling of the national debt. Liberals don't give a damn about tax cuts for anyone, especially the middle class. They don't give a damn about the debt.

So liberals, please answer... why now are you suddenly for tax cuts and concerned about the debt?

 

[Starman]

Will you liberals please explain to me why you are suddenly for tax cuts and concerned about the national debt? When democrats had full control when Obama entered the White House in '09 they decided it was more important to take control of 1/6 of our economic, which resulted in higher taxes - particularly on the middle class - and criminal healthcare system.

So, now they are suddenly talking about tax cuts for the middle class, and concern over the impact of the debt. Democrat control resulted in doubling of the national debt. Liberals don't give a damn about tax cuts for anyone, especially the middle class. They don't give a damn about the debt.

So liberals, please answer... why now are you suddenly for tax cuts and concerned about the debt?

Government debt doesn't matter. As long as governments are borrowing money from privately owned banks who charge interest, the "debt" can literally never be paid off. The only ostensible argument is how big the debt should be and what letter is behind the name of the party deigned responsible.

This notion of "government debt" is completely irrelevant.

 

[PsyOps]

Government debt doesn't matter. As long as governments are borrowing money from privately owned banks who charge interest, the "debt" can literally never be paid off. The only ostensible argument is how big the debt should be and what letter is behind the name of the party deigned responsible.

This notion of "government debt" is completely irrelevant.

It's not irrelevant to democrats and using it as a talking point against this tax plan. Liberals are talking incessantly about what this tax plan will do to the debt, when they have NEVER cared about the debt. Now don't get me wrong, I don't think republicans care much about the debt. But many conservatives are very concerned of debt that overcomes the GDP and the long-term affect this has if/when the global economy falters.

But, my question doesn't have anything to do with the debt's relevancy. My question is directed at liberals as to why they suddenly care about tax cuts or the debts, when it's never been a concern when they were in control and had an opportunity to lower taxes and address the debt.

 

[Hijinx]

It's not irrelevant to democrats and using it as a talking point against this tax plan. Liberals are talking incessantly about what this tax plan will do to the debt, when they have NEVER cared about the debt. Now don't get me wrong, I don't think republicans care much about the debt. But many conservatives are very concerned of debt that overcomes the GDP and the long-term affect this has if/when the global economy falters.

But, my question doesn't have anything to do with the debt's relevancy. My question is directed at liberals as to why they suddenly care about tax cuts or the debts, when it's never been a concern when they were in control and had an opportunity to lower taxes and address the debt.

I hate to use Maryland as an example here, but.
Taxes were steadily going up under O'Malley
All kinds of users fees and registrations. He stripped the funds of their money and took it to run the State
He even taxed the rain.

Under Hogan we seem to be doing all right, and he hasn't raised the taxes and in fact has helped lower some of them.
My question is this----WTF were the Democrats doing with the money?

 

[Starman]

It's not irrelevant to democrats and using it as a talking point against this tax plan. Liberals are talking incessantly about what this tax plan will do to the debt, when they have NEVER cared about the debt. Now don't get me wrong, I don't think republicans care much about the debt. But many conservatives are very concerned of debt that overcomes the GDP and the long-term affect this has if/when the global economy falters.

But, my question doesn't have anything to do with the debt's relevancy. My question is directed at liberals as to why they suddenly care about tax cuts or the debts, when it's never been a concern when they were in control and had an opportunity to lower taxes and address the debt.

But the relevancy of debt gets directly at the issue you raised: it's a tool in the divide & conquer regime of the ruling class. Best to understand government debt and be able to ignore the propaganda.

 

[PsyOps]

I hate to use Maryland as an example here, but.
Taxes were steadily going up under O'Malley
All kinds of users fees and registrations. He stripped the funds of their money and took it to run the State
He even taxed the rain.

Under Hogan we seem to be doing all right, and he hasn't raised the taxes and in fact has helped lower some of them.
My question is this----WTF were the Democrats doing with the money?

I don't want to get off track of my question. Why are liberals suddenly for tax cuts and concern for the debt when that has never been something they've cared much about? I mean, I know the overarching answer which is, their hand is forced to talk about it because republicans are actually going to do it; but it's been clear for decades (if not longer) that democrats, when in control, have never supported tax cuts and never cared about the debt.

 

[PsyOps]

But the relevancy of debt gets directly at the issue you raised: it's a tool in the divide & conquer regime of the ruling class. Best to understand government debt and be able to ignore the propaganda.

If you want to talk the concepts of the debt have at it. My question is very simple.

 

[Starman]

If you want to talk the concepts of the debt have at it. My question is very simple.

The answer to you question is below:

Will you liberals please explain to me why you are suddenly for tax cuts and concerned about the national debt? When democrats had full control when Obama entered the White House in '09 they decided it was more important to take control of 1/6 of our economic, which resulted in higher taxes - particularly on the middle class - and criminal healthcare system.

So, now they are suddenly talking about tax cuts for the middle class, and concern over the impact of the debt. Democrat control resulted in doubling of the national debt. Liberals don't give a damn about tax cuts for anyone, especially the middle class. They don't give a damn about the debt.

And the answer is equally simple: They are politicians. This is what they get paid to do. And there seems to be very little interest in the voting population to change a damn thing.

 

[PsyOps]

And the answer is equally simple: They are politicians. This is what they get paid to do. And there seems to be very little interest in the voting population to change a damn thing.

Thank you. Now I await our resident liberals to answer.

BTW... are you formerly Starman3000?

 

[Pete]

There is no proof of that. People carry less debt. That is the only thing proven. There is no evidence people Spend more or companies higher more.

Did you hear like I did on the radio yesterday that personal debt has risen to almost all time highs?

 

[philibusters]

The term "trickle-down" has been poisoned. There is nothing bad about it. "Trickle-down" isn't really a government strategy or whatever, it's just the basic building block of a market-based economy.

I have money, but I need some meat to feed my family. So I visit my farmer, who raises several hundred head of cattle. I trade some of my money for a side of beef. Now in theory, that money I gave him is more than it cost the farmer to bring that cow to market. So with that "profit", he is able to buy feed, for example. Perhaps that feed might come from an adjacent farmer, who again brings that feed to market for more than it cost him to produce it. He take his profit and buys seed for the next year. And so on and so on.

That is "trickle-down" economics that I've just described. But it's the way it's been done for millennia. Long ago, it might have been wampum traded for animal pelts based on a voluntary, mutually-beneficial transaction.

"Trickle-down" is just another in a long line of ideas that has been turned into a pejorative by people who don't understand it.

If a CEO shouldn't be paid based on the profits he generates, what then should be the basis for his compensation? Just because a CEO is paid an "astronomical sum" doesn't mean there's no money left for expanding the workforce. Furthermore, businesses don't just expand their workforce on a whim. They expand when there is more demand for their product(s) than the current workforce will be able to accommodate.

When I think of trickle down economies I think a concept different from what you are giving an example of. I think of it as the idea that you want those with surplus capital to invest it in the economy. That is a bit different than what you are talking about because you are not necessarily talking about surplus capital. By surplus capital I mean capital in excess of that needed for your basic needs (home, food, transportation, clothing). So if you are buying food like in your example that is not really an investment designed to create future capital, that is more fulfilling your basic needs. People are going to fulfill their basic needs regardless of tax policy.

What I would think of an example of trickle down economics is gov't lowers business tax rates and that allows small business to hire new employee.

 

[PsyOps]

Did you hear like I did on the radio yesterday that personal debt has risen to almost all time highs?

I think that's mostly on the backs of college loans.

 

[Gilligan]

I heartily support GOP Senator Johnson's current position opposing the bill. I hope he gets some of what he wants as they rework it in the Senate. Ideally, the final version would have the reductions for pass-through income AND the elimination of Barry's individual mandate. Win-win.

n a statement released later Wednesday, Johnson said that "neither the House nor the Senate bill provide fair treatment" for pass-through businesses, "so I do not support either in their current versions."

 

[GURPS]

simple really if people have more money in their pay check, they buy more or better stuff

 

[Kyle]

simple really if people have more money in their pay check, they buy more or better stuff

... then all the hookers, bar-tenders and drug dealers get rich.

 

[Gilligan]

... then all the hookers, bar-tenders and drug dealers get rich.

I spend a lot of my hard-earned money on hookers and blow.

The rest of it I just waste.