Trump's not going to be impeached

[Chris0nllyn]

The calls for impeachment in this phase are nothing more than TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome).

If Comey's memo is real, and if what the NYT claims is true is, that's a big deal and I'd hope that even the most ardent Trump supporters would be able to see that. I hope no one wants a President trying to influence the FBI like some sort of bad business deal.

This certainly shouldn't be misconstrued to the FBI being some sort of great agency under Comey's watch. The FBI was the group trying to force Apple to give them access to the San Bernadino shooter's phone. Even after being told 'no', they cracked it just fine. This is the same group that allowed Clitnon's aides to destroy their laptops while given immunity. Comey was also the guy who tried defining what journalism is relating to Wikileaks, he ran an agency that allowed FBI informants to break the law almost 23,000 times in 4 years, allowed Dylan Roof to buy a gun before shooting up a church, data mines innocent Americans, raided a political meeting (fingerprinting, photographing, and seizing phones in the process) in Texas, interviewed Tsarnaev before the Boston Marathon bombing, had agencts traveling with the terrorists that planned to kill Americans during the (stupid) "Draw Muhammad" event in Texas but couldn't comment on why those agencts didn't intervene during the attack, botched an almost year-long investigation on the Orlando nightclub shooter, among others.

This also doesn't mean that Trump is completely in the right either. even with all his flip-flops, lies, and bull####ting, he's merely the side effect of a complacent voting public that has historically low confidence in their elected officials. Government scandals are nothing new, yet we continue to vote for more regulation, which inevitably leads to corruption. But what do we do? Continaully vote in these people, so who's to blame? The right, the left, or both? Both have given us compunding, never-ending debt, never-ending wars in the Middle East, the post-9/11 surveillance machine, bailouts (too big to fail), a ####ty national healthcare law, ####ty local governments, etc.

So as much as everyone wants to clench their fists right now, this isn't the end of bad government. It's certainly not the beginning. Just another hyper-partisan event masking the real, broader, issues with our elected officials and putting themselves, their politics, before policy that benefits everyone.

 

[Gilligan]

The only assertion I take exception with is your characterization of Trump's voters as "complacent". Hardly..they were everything and anything BUT complacent. His rallies, for example, bear clear witness to that.

I wish Trump would get his communications game fixed. It's a mess and that's all on him.

 

[Chris0nllyn]

The only assertion I take exception with is your characterization of Trump's voters as "complacent". Hardly..they were everything and anything BUT complacent. His rallies, for example, bear clear witness to that.

I wish Trump would get his communications game fixed. It's a mess and that's all on him.

They believed the lofty, and somewhat unrealistic, goals he set (just like the "hope and change" crowd that bought into Obama). That he'd be the best at everything, everyone would have jobs, and DC would simply do a 180 and be the bastion of great government.

Sure, they voted in someone with no governmental experience, but business experience. But the real test will come in a few years. Let's be honest, Trump's budget and plans thus far aren't exactly geared toward reducing the deficit. His "best people for the job" are a bit questionable. I recognize this is subjective based on who you believe to be the right person and their ideals (Sessions' wanting to ramp up the failed drug war, for example) but at the end of his term, will major strides be made to fix some of the major problems facing us, or will the debt still continue to climb, will the national healthcare laws still be #### (just a Republican version), will there be a more transparent government, will we learn our lesson on these continual wars (and potential new ones)? When will we realize both parties put us here and real change comes with voting out encumbent politicians in all aspects of government. Not just the President.

 

[PsyOps]

With the current state of government, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if Trump gets impeached. The GOP is spineless in combating this sort of thing. There are many within the GOP that I'm certain want Trump impeached. Impeachment is a constitutional matter that requires heavy burden of PROOF that crimes were committed. They have NOTHING. NO evidence. We have elected people that have no interest in what the constitution says about impeachment, or anything else for that matter. THIS is the constitutional crisis. We have a government of self-preservation, defying all sense of rule of law, the constitution, and who they SERVE - THE PEOPLE.

My only hope is that Americans see what these people are doing and vote them out.

 

[SamSpade]

Yet there are throngs of TJs all over the internet, convinced! that public opinion will impeach a president. They have freaking petitions...because yeah, that'll do it. "If we just get 5,000 shares or likes..."

So many of them - are young. In that, they believe they are living in a unique time in human history, where nothing that happens has ever happened before and every crisis is the worst ever.
They've seen three or four Presidents in their lifetime, and every pronouncement of "worst" or "best" ever is boiled down to those few, as though the previous two hundred years counts for nothing.
It's the common refrain "happened before I was born" that so many produce as though only the span of time they've actually seen has any merit.

That said, they're living the Goldwater idea that "extremism in the cause of liberty is no vice". As far as they are concerned, millions of bigots and homophobes and anti-Semites and everything else you can think of, rose up this one time in all of American history to elect Emperor Palpatine, a man so utterly evil he'd make Hitler and Stalin piss their pants if they were still alive. He wants to kill children and pollute the environment to line the pockets of his rich friends and every utterance of his is scrutinized and re-worked to reveal he's a Sith. With that in mind - they have no need of the democratic process.

Try to imagine the very worst candidate you've ever heard of - I don't know, Farrakhan? LaRouche? And try to imagine them in the White House.
Try to imagine what might have to happen to the whole country if they voted HIM in there - and how much you want to stop him.

Now ratchet it up a few notches - because my liberal friends online are freaking ape#### over this - they can barely discuss anything else except the latest progfeed over something Trump is imagined to have done.

 

[Chris0nllyn]

With the current state of government, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if Trump gets impeached. The GOP is spineless in combating this sort of thing. There are many within the GOP that I'm certain want Trump impeached. Impeachment is a constitutional matter that requires heavy burden of PROOF that crimes were committed. They have NOTHING. NO evidence. We have elected people that have no interest in what the constitution says about impeachment, or anything else for that matter. THIS is the constitutional crisis. We have a government of self-preservation, defying all sense of rule of law, the constitution, and who they SERVE - THE PEOPLE.

My only hope is that Americans see what these people are doing and vote them out.

During the 98 midterms (which was rife with the right calling for impeachment of Clinton), the Dems picked up 5 seats in the house. Gingrich was so sure that the calls for impeachment were going to result in Republicans gaining seats, but was embarassed by the results enough to resign.

Two things can happen. Enough people are sick of hearing the "boy cry wolf" from the Democrats that Republicans end up with some sort of super majority in Congress, or it blows up in the Republican;s faces, they lose the majority, and maybe (just maybe) Ryan is ousted as speaker. The difference being, Gingrich was a major backer of Clinton's impeachment, and I don't believe I've heard anything on Ryan going along with impeachment. So maybe Maxine Waters' old ass will get the boot. Her and her deranged ilk Pelosi (and Feinstein for a triple-win).

 

[SamSpade]

So as much as everyone wants to clench their fists right now, this isn't the end of bad government. It's certainly not the beginning. Just another hyper-partisan event masking the real, broader, issues with our elected officials and putting themselves, their politics, before policy that benefits everyone.

He still has to deliver. If he can't - or shows a lack of spine to do it anyway - I'll switch parties to Republican (yes, I'm registered Democrat, coming up on 40 years) and vote against him in the primary - or support third party.

I still think most of this crap IS TDS - but it's not enough to keep me on board. He has to deliver.

 

[Sapidus]

All they can do is waste taxpayer money and waste all of our time. They'll spend a #### ton of money investigating and come up with nada - which will make progbot heads spin and they will scream cover up and blah blah blah, then insist MORE money be pissed away on their little witch hunt.
You do realize this is the exact scenario that happened 6 months ago with Hillary? The Republicans tried for months to make something stick while the democrats said exactly what you said above. And don't tell me well she was guilty. There was just as much evidence as thereis against Trump at this point.
I'm afraid our country is too divide to work together to accomplish anything and we will just continue this back and forth until the country implodes.

You all might want to remember, in a serious investigation "anonymous sources" won't mean chit. Handwritten "memos" will be inadmissible. Or did you all think there wouldn't be hearings and that Maxine Waters could just go on TV and say, "Donald Trump, I impeach you!" and that would be that

The above is not true. It is long standing procedure that FBI agents memos are admissible in court.

 

[PsyOps]

During the 98 midterms (which was rife with the right calling for impeachment of Clinton), the Dems picked up 5 seats in the house. Gingrich was so sure that the calls for impeachment were going to result in Republicans gaining seats, but was embarassed by the results enough to resign.

Two things can happen. Enough people are sick of hearing the "boy cry wolf" from the Democrats that Republicans end up with some sort of super majority in Congress, or it blows up in the Republican;s faces, they lose the majority, and maybe (just maybe) Ryan is ousted as speaker. The difference being, Gingrich was a major backer of Clinton's impeachment, and I don't believe I've heard anything on Ryan going along with impeachment. So maybe Maxine Waters' old ass will get the boot. Her and her deranged ilk Pelosi (and Feinstein for a triple-win).

The Clinton impeachment was rooted in FACT - Clinton lied under oath. There was no fabricated scandal, as we're seeing here.

But, you're stating the obvious that politically this could go either way in which party controls congress. Th real battle isn't dem vs GOP; the real battle is true conservatives and liberals vs the establishment. Who will control congress?

 

[SamSpade]

During the 98 midterms (which was rife with the right calling for impeachment of Clinton), the Dems picked up 5 seats in the house. Gingrich was so sure that the calls for impeachment were going to result in Republicans gaining seats, but was embarassed by the results enough to resign.

Two things can happen. Enough people are sick of hearing the "boy cry wolf" from the Democrats that Republicans end up with some sort of super majority in Congress, or it blows up in the Republican;s faces, they lose the majority, and maybe (just maybe) Ryan is ousted as speaker. The difference being, Gingrich was a major backer of Clinton's impeachment, and I don't believe I've heard anything on Ryan going along with impeachment. So maybe Maxine Waters' old ass will get the boot. Her and her deranged ilk Pelosi (and Feinstein for a triple-win).

That's what I meant in another thread? where I said "Let 'em impeach - it worked so well for the Republicans last time").

Because it blew up in their face. Granted, Clinton was never the same after that. He settled with Paula Jones - lost the ability to practice law in Arkansas (and I believe the Supreme Court).
He made a lot of money but generally people believe he WAS the lewd philanderer he was shown to be.
I know a number of folks abroad whose opinion of Bill went through the floor after that whole thing.

BUT --

The American people were just tired of hearing about it. They were sick of the Clintons, sick of the scandals, sick of everything and just were tired of it all.
It blew up in their faces because after years, they were just tired of hearing about it.

If the Dems were *smart* - they'd play the long game. They'd challenge him when necessary, but play nice until they have him dead to rights.
Crying wolf every time he takes two scoops of ice cream is not going to get them votes two years from now. I don't care how riled up people are now.

 

[SamSpade]

And don't tell me well she was guilty.

Don't ask me - ask Comey. He said so - and he inserted himself into the process and said yeah but no one will touch this case anyway.

 

[vraiblonde]

I wish Trump would get his communications game fixed. It's a mess and that's all on him.

See, and I disagree with that. It's not Trump's communication that's the problem, in my opinion; it's the way it's "interpreted" and presented in the media. I've lost count of how many times the press has said "Trump said this", only to run it down and find that that's not what he said at all.

There is *nothing* Trump can say that they won't spin it and present it in the worst possible light, completely misrepresenting his comments if they have to.

 

[Chris0nllyn]

All they can do is waste taxpayer money and waste all of our time. They'll spend a #### ton of money investigating and come up with nada - which will make progbot heads spin and they will scream cover up and blah blah blah, then insist MORE money be pissed away on their little witch hunt.
You do realize this is the exact scenario that happened 6 months ago with Hillary? The Republicans tried for months to make something stick while the democrats said exactly what you said above. And don't tell me well she was guilty. There was just as much evidence as thereis against Trump at this point.
I'm afraid our country is too divide to work together to accomplish anything and we will just continue this back and forth until the country implodes.

You all might want to remember, in a serious investigation "anonymous sources" won't mean chit. Handwritten "memos" will be inadmissible. Or did you all think there wouldn't be hearings and that Maxine Waters could just go on TV and say, "Donald Trump, I impeach you!" and that would be that

The above is not true. It is long standing procedure that FBI agents memos are admissible in court.

If wasting time on investgations means less time creating and passing burdensome regulations, that's a plus.

The Clinton impeachment was rooted in FACT - Clinton lied under oath. There was no fabricated scandal, as we're seeing here.

But, you're stating the obvious that politically this could go either way in which party controls congress. Th real battle isn't dem vs GOP; the real battle is true conservatives and liberals vs the establishment. Who will control congress?

But we really don't know if this is fabricated yet, do we? I'm not willing to chalk it up as a fabricated scandal yet, and I hope anyone else who lacks trust in government will also.

Who controls Congress is up to us.

 

[vraiblonde]

But we really don't know if this is fabricated yet, do we?

All the signs are pointing that way. Today the Dems started pre-bitching about Mueller, and that tells me that they know he will come up with nothing on Trump.

 

[PsyOps]

If wasting time on investgations means less time creating and passing burdensome regulations, that's a plus.




But we really don't know if this is fabricated yet, do we? I'm not willing to chalk it up as a fabricated scandal yet, and I hope anyone else who lacks trust in government will also.

Who controls Congress is up to us.

I always thought evidence was required to form these kinds of investigations, let alone demand impeachment. It seems all that's required is for someone to SAY it happened, without evidence. There are people in congress standing up demanding impeachment proceedings start now. These are people sworn to uphold the constitution. These people aren't interest in the process playing through. They are interest in the laws they are charged to protect and rules they are supposed to abide by. Their hatred for Trump is what drives them. They are acting extremely dangerous grounds.

 

[SamSpade]

All the signs are pointing that way. Today the Dems started pre-bitching about Mueller, and that tells me that they know he will come up with nothing on Trump.

Do you think that some of them KNOW there's nothing to find, but that they can gain politically by pushing it anyway?
You know, we've SEEN House of Cards - we know they do this.

 

[Chris0nllyn]

I always thought evidence was required to form these kinds of investigations, let alone demand impeachment. It seems all that's required is for someone to SAY it happened, without evidence. There are people in congress standing up demanding impeachment proceedings start now. These are people sworn to uphold the constitution. These people aren't interest in the process playing through. They are interest in the laws they are charged to protect and rules they are supposed to abide by. Their hatred for Trump is what drives them. They are acting extremely dangerous grounds.

Regardless of how anyone feels about him, no one had to believe Snowden. No one had to believe the stuff he leaked.

But it led to a congressional investigation (I mean, they have to do something, right?) and led to agencuies lying to Americans (shocker) but also led to the revelations that we're all being spied on (regardless if you believe it's a good thing or not).

The NYT also published article based on the Pentagon Papers. They didn't need to publish the actual papers for it to become what it did.

Watergate stories were rife with anonymous sources in articles published by the WaPo and NYT. We know how that turned out.

I'd like to believe the NYT, and that a specific reporter wouldn't put himself through possible legal hearings to completely make up a story. Not saying it couldn't happen though.

 

[Gilligan]

See, and I disagree with that. It's not Trump's communication that's the problem, in my opinion; it's the way it's "interpreted" and presented in the media. I've lost count of how many times the press has said "Trump said this", only to run it down and find that that's not what he said at all.

.

Oh I don't argue with that for a second. What I'm saying is that he needs to get his team in the "Game". There's no reason why Trump couldn't outmaneuver the opposition...but so far he and his team are not doing that.

You started your response with "see"...

 

[Sapidus]

See, and I disagree with that. It's not Trump's communication that's the problem, in my opinion; it's the way it's "interpreted" and presented in the media. I've lost count of how many times the press has said "Trump said this", only to run it down and find that that's not what he said at all.

There is *nothing* Trump can say that they won't spin it and present it in the worst possible light, completely misrepresenting his comments if they have to.

So the fact that he gave multiple reason for his firing of Comey is the media's fault? The fact that he tried to intimidate Comey by saying he hoped there were no tapes of their conversations?

I thought his tweets were the the great equalizer allowing him to speak directly to the public without media influence?

 

[SamSpade]

I'd like to believe the NYT, and that a specific reporter wouldn't put himself through possible legal hearings to completely make up a story. Not saying it couldn't happen though.

No I think it's more likely a reporter is so convinced of his source's veracity, he WILL put himself on the line, however naive such an idea is.

It's not as though whole NATIONS have done things based on extremely flimsy evidence.