20 yr. old MOTHER of 7 kids....

2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner
PREMO Member
forestal said:
Cutting private gun ownership would also be in line with the Constitution, since only well regulated militias are specifically proscribed for owning them.
Again, proof that you have no idea of what your are talking and do not understand English sentence construction.
The following is taken from J. Neil Schulman's book Stopping Power,
(Pulpless.com, 1999 © 1999)

//The first person usage refers to Mr. Schulman//

"I just had a conversation with Mr. A. C. Brocki, Editorial Coordinator for the Office of Instruction of the Los Angeles Unified School District. Mr. Brocki taught Advanced Placement English for several years at Van Nuys H.S., as well as having been a senior editor for Houghton Mifflin.......

I gave Mr. Brocki my name.....then asked him to parse the following sentence:
"A well-schooled electorate, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and read Books, shall not be infringed."

Mr Brocki informed me that the sentence was over punctuated, but the meaning could be extracted anyway:

"A well-schooled electorate" is a nominative absolute.

"being necessary to the security of a free State" is a participial phrase modifying "electorate."

The subject (a compound subject) of the sentence is "the right of the people."

“Shall not be infringed" is a verb phrase, with "not" as an adverb modifying the verb phrase "shall be infringed."

"To keep and read books is an infinitive phrase modifying the verb phrase "Shall not be infringed."

I then asked him if he could rephrase the sentence to make it clearer.

Mr. Brocki said, "Because a well schooled electorate is necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and read books shall not be infringed."

I asked: can the sentence be interpreted to restrict the right to keep and read books to a well schooled electorate.....

He said, "No."

I then identified my purpose and read the 2nd A. in full:
"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

I asked, "Is the structure and meaning of this sentence the same as the sentence I first quoted you?'

He said, "Yes."

I asked him to rephrase this sentence to make it clearer.

He transformed the sentence the same way as the first sentence: "Because a well-regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

I asked him whether the meaning could have changed in 200 years.

He said "No."

I asked whether this sentence could be interpreted to restrict the right to keep arms to "a well regulated Militia."

He said, "No."

According to Mr. Brocki, the sentence means that the people are the militia, and that the people have the right which is mentioned.

I asked him again to make sure:

SCHULMAN: "Can the sentence be interpreted to mean that the right can be restricted to a "well-regulated militia?"

BROCKI; "No, I don't see that."

SCHULMAN; "Could another professional in English grammar or linguistics interpret the sentence to mean otherwise?"

BROCKI: "I can't see any grounds for another interpretation."

I asked Mr. Brocki if he would be willing to stake his professional reputation on the opinion, and be quoted on this.

He said, "Yes."

At no point in the conversation did I ask Mr. Brocki his opinion on the 2nd. Amendment, gun control, or the right to keep and bear arms. -July17, 1991
Sculman and Usage continued…………

"……but who would you call if you wanted the top expert on American usage, to tell you the meaning of the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution?"

That was the question I asked A. C. Brocki.... Mr Brocki told me to get in touch with Roy Copperud, a retired professor of journalism at USC and the author of American Usage and Style: The Consensus.

Roy Copperud was a newspaper writer on major dailies for over three decades before embarking on a distinguished seventeen-year career teaching journalism at USC. Since1952, Copperud has been writing a column dealing with the professional aspects of journalism for Editor and Publisher, a weekly magazine focusing on the journalism field.

He's on the usage panel of the American Heritage Dictionary and Merriam Webster's Usage Dictionary frequently cites him as an expert. ...

American Usage and Style: The Consensus has been in continuous print from Van Nostrand Reinhold since 1981, and is the winner of the Association of American Publishers' Humanities Award.

//Schulman goes on to describe how he introduced himself to Professor Copperud and then describes a letter he wrote containing many questions concerning the 2nd. A. given the debate whether the opening clause, A well regulated militia..... "is a restrictive clause or a subordinate clause w/ respect to the independent clause and subject of the sentence, "the right of the ......"

Sculman went on to ask, "I would request that your analysis ..... be restricted entirely to a linguistic analysis of its meaning and intent. Further.....I ask that whatever analysis you make be a professional opinion that you would be willing to stand behind with your reputation, and even be willing to testify under oath to support, if necessary." – PB//

"After several more letters and phone calls... Professor Copperud sent me the following analysis:

[Copperud] The words "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state," contrary to the interpretation cited in your letter of July 25, 1991, constitute a present participle rather than a clause. It is used as an adjective, modifying "militia," which is followed by the main clause of the sentence (subject "the right," verb "shall" . The right to keep and bear arms is asserted as essential for maintaining a militia.

In reply to your questions:

[Schulman: (1) Can the sentence be interpreted to grant the right to keep and bear arms solely to a "well regulated militia"?

[Copperud: (1) The sentence does not restrict the right to keep and bear arms, nor does it state or imply possession of the right elsewhere or by others than the people; it simply makes a positive statement with respect to a right of the people.

[Sculman: (2) Is "the right of the people to keep and bear arms" granted by the words of the 2nd. A., or does the 2nd. A assume a preexisting right of the people to keep and bear arms, and mere state that such right "shall not be infringed"?

[Copperid: (2) The right is not granted by the amendment; its existence is assumed. The thrust of the sentence is that the right shall be preserved inviolate for the sake of ensuring a militia.

[Schulman: (3) Is the right of the people to keep and bear arms conditioned upon whether or not a well-regulated militia is, in fact, necessary to the security of a free State, and if that condition is not existing, is the statement "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" null and void?

[Copperud: (3) no such condition is expressed or implied. The right to keep and bear arms is not said by the amendment to depend on the existence of a militia. No condition is stated or implied as to the relation of the right to keep and bear arms and to the necessity of a well-regulated militia as requisite to the security of a free state. The right to keep and bear arms is deemed unconditional by the entire sentence.

[Schulman: (4) Does the clause "A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State," grant a right to the government to place conditions on the "right of the people to keep and bear arms," or is such right deemed unconditional by the meaning of the entire sentence?

[Copperud: The right is assumed to exist and to be unconditional, as previously stated. It is invoked here specifically for the sake of the militia.

[Schulman: (5) Which of the following does the phrase "well-regulated militia mean: "well-equipped", "well-organized", "well-drilled", "well-educated", or "subject to the regulations of a superior authority"?]

[Copperud: (5) The phrase means "subject to regulations of a superior authority"; this accords with the desire of the writers for civilian control over the military.

[Schulman: If at all possible, I would ask you to take into account the changed meanings of words, or usage, since that sentence was written 200 years ago, but not to take into account historical interpretations of the intents of the authors, unless those issues can be clearly separated.
continued ->
 

2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner
PREMO Member
<- continuation
[Copperud: to the best of my knowledge thare has been no change in the meaning of words or in usage that would affect the meaning of the amendment. If it were written today, it might be put:

"Since a well-regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be abridged."

[Schulman: As a "scientific control" on this analysis, I would also appreciate it if you could compare your analysis of the text of the 2nd A. to the following sentence:

"A well-schooled electorate, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and read Books, shall not be infringed."

My questions for the usage analysis of this sentence would be,
(1) Is the grammatical structure and usage of this sentence and the way the words modify each other, identical to the 2nd. A. sentence; and
(2) Could this sentence be interpreted to restrict "the right of the people to keep and read Books" only to "a well-educated electorate" - e.g. registered voters w/ a high school diploma?

[Copperud: (1) your "scientific control" sentence precisely parallels the amendment in grammatical structure;
(2) There is nothing in your sentence that either indicates or implies the possibility of a restricted interpretation.

//Abbreviations and ellipses are mine and are used for the sake of brevity. The complete text of this book is available online at www.Pulpless.com. //

The United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit became the first federal appeals court in the United States to strike down a gun control law based on the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution, and the second to interpret the Second Amendment as protecting an individual right to bear arms. It did so in "Parker v. District of Columbia".
 
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2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner
PREMO Member
forestal said:
Have you ever considered that if you want people to take you seriously you shouldn't be a Jesus freak and gun freak at the same time?
Protecting family, friends, and country is not inconsistent with being a Christian. Again, you prove your lack of knowledge of either topic.
 
J

julz20684

Guest
jenbengen said:
"Amanda believes she can handle the stress - so does her mother"

What stress? Neither of them have to work? :smack: Maybe if the FATHERS had a JOBS they would have less time to get pregnant. Get a JOB!! :buttkick:


:fixed:
 

forestal

I'm the Boss of Me
What sort of gun would Jesus use to kill someone?


2ndAmendment said:
Protecting family, friends, and country is not inconsistent with being a Christian. Again, you prove your lack of knowledge of either topic.
 

JPC sr

James P. Cusick Sr.
The truth will set us all free.

forestal said:
What sort of gun would Jesus use to kill someone?
:jameo: Come on 2A that question is just for 2A.

Out of your arsenal to kill the heathen - which gun would you give to Jesus in your righteous cause?

The .30 caliber sniper rifle as your comrade AK-74 recommends? :elaine:
 

Lenny

Lovin' being Texican
JPC sr said:
:jameo: I do not see what you mean by saying it is "RIDICULOUS" but I do not see any reason to criticize the two parents at all.

The parents have done nothing wrong. Nothing at all.

Spoken by another non-supporting-deadbeat father. You just have a way of stepping in a pile if sh!t and coming out smelling like sh!t, don't you?
 

Lugnut

I'm Rick James #####!
AK-74me said:
And everytime you say that we point out why it is inaccurate.

"Militia" the way you want to use it didn't even exist when the Constitution was written.


And you know that!

Don't forget the definition of "regulated" at the time either. :yay:
 

JPC sr

James P. Cusick Sr.
Scofflaw and Personal Responsibility.

Lenny said:
You just have a way of stepping in a pile if xxxx and coming out smelling like xxxx, don't you?
:jameo: I think it is wrong for you to go around the forum censor to post your dirty words.

If Lenny had some thing worth saying then he would not need to step around his own filth. :coffee:
 

High EGT

Gort! Klaatu barada nikto
JPC sr said:
:jameo: I do not see what you mean by saying it is "RIDICULOUS" but I do not see any reason to criticize the two parents at all.

The parents have done nothing wrong. Nothing at all.

They surely did not know they would have 3 sets of twins but the kids are all gifts from God and a blessing, so I do not see how some of these other selfish pompous posters here in Maryland can criticize and even condemn those parents as doing some thing wrong when they have done nothing wrong at all. Nothing.

And in time both the parents could get a job or hit the lottery or receive cash from elsewhere and then get off of welfare forever. The parents are still young and healthy and they have done nothing wrong.

We live in a rich Country with a few outspoken selfish people, the USA is spending over $100 Billion per year in the conquest of Iraq (killing people) and some posters here want to deny $2,000 per year to a young family of 9 members that have done nothing wrong.

If we do not help the needy because of the greedy then we would be one sick society indeed.

I think there are many people that have some seriously mixed up priorities here.

Fortunately I am confident that Texas will provide for that family just fine and the horrible selfish ideas of posters on here will never happen but we really need to do some thing positive to turn around that ugly perception that there is some thing wrong with parents having children.

It is so inhuman to cuss at a blessing. :popcorn:

Cheezz JPC
What makes this wrong JPC is it violates the fundamental obligation of "Quality of Life" for these children. Simply because you can have children does not mean that you should bring them into this world with a dysfunctional surrounding lacking any support structure. I suppose you could walk by a situation such as this with the kids obviously showng signs lack of attention and home in disrepair due to the financial strains of this couple and still say to yourself "what a blessing these children are". Live in there shoes for one moment and I doubt you would consider your life a blessing. I could go on about how these situations contribute to crime or reflect upon our concience since we as a society are more concerned about individuals mistreating dogs and cats who are suffering from quality of life then of our children since I guess in your view its enough just to be alive.
 

2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner
PREMO Member
forestal said:
What sort of gun would Jesus use to kill someone?
That is as ignorant as the rest of the fecal matter you post.

Jesus could have destroyed all those that opposed Him. He did not. That was not His purpose at that time. Jesus will return to the earth and He will wage war against all who oppose Him. He will use the two-edged sword that proceeds from His mouth, the word of Truth. Jesus, as opposed to mere mortals like me, does not need weapons to put His opponents asunder; He will do it with just His word.
Revelation 19:11-21

11And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war.

12His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself.

13He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

14And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses.

15From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.

16And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, "KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."

17Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds which fly in midheaven, "Come, assemble for the great supper of God,

18so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders and the flesh of mighty men and the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them and the flesh of all men, both free men and slaves, and small and great."

19And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.

20And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone.

21And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.
If you knew anything about the Bible, you would have known this.
 
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JPC sr

James P. Cusick Sr.
Scofflaw and Personal Responsibility.

High EGT said:
Cheezz JPC
What makes this wrong JPC is it violates the fundamental obligation of "Quality of Life" for these children. Simply because you can have children does not mean that you should bring them into this world with a dysfunctional surrounding lacking any support structure. I suppose you could walk by a situation such as this with the kids obviously showng signs lack of attention and home in disrepair due to the financial strains of this couple and still say to yourself "what a blessing these children are". Live in there shoes for one moment and I doubt you would consider your life a blessing. I could go on about how these situations contribute to crime or reflect upon our concience since we as a society are more concerned about individuals mistreating dogs and cats who are suffering from quality of life then of our children since I guess in your view its enough just to be alive.
:jameo: You are simply unjustly judging them and the entire group of poorer parents just based on finances,

and so your judgements are inhuman.

But instead of immaginary children and parents for you to unjustly condemn,

the couple in this thread topic appear to be quite happy with their 7 children and the 9 member family is together and happy from the report.

Now if the law orders the father out of the house and to start paying child support and the law ordering the mother to get a job too then the finances will increase but it will only pay for another broken family unit divided by an unjust and inhuman mentality against parents that have done nothing wrong.

You and the law judges them unjustly when they have done nothing wrong.

If you dream that your "quality of life" makes for "blessed children" then you like the law is in for a big surprise.
:patriot:
 

JPC sr

James P. Cusick Sr.
Scofflaw and Personal Responsibility.

forestal said:
What sort of gun would Jesus use to kill someone?
:jameo: Ol' 2A might not know right but I have some predictions.

Like Jesus might come with the Prophet of Islam and their weapon would be self sacrifice,

against the infidels having all their guns as their weapons of choice. :biteme:
 
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