3 PG teens stomp immigrant to death; indicted

sommpd

New Member
That's your modus operandi isn't it Don. When you know you're wrong, throw an insult out there. I'm not wrong this time Barney. All I said was I had made the same statement to you once before. And that is true.

No Don. It is wrong to say you won't defend a person who is in need of help. You took an oath to protect and not doing that, saying you won't do that is wrong Don. So, either you wouldn't help a person in trouble, or you lied about not helping a person in trouble. Either way, you are wrong.
You can't defend your position. See above

See above.

You know i'm twice the man you are. I wasn't gonna mention your weight, but if you insist, then try Nutri-System. It worked for Mike Golic.

Any time you would like to go out for a run, to the gym, or any other form of exercies I would be happy to show you how it's done Don.

You are a frustrated cop, and you sit on here when you should be looking after your people. Actually, I'm on my day off.

Maybe this time Don, but there have been plenty of times you were on duty and on here!
 

Dork

Highlander's MPD
That's for sure and it's even sadder to see children being so callous. These kids are 14 & 15 years old. How did they get so desensitized so young?

No good values are being taught at home or school. Kids are surrounded by bad influences because the parents don't care. Throw in some violent video games and movies and take away any value in religion or respect for authority and bamm! Sh*t happens. And, if a teacher tries to dicipline a kid, guess who gets in trouble? Not the little sh*t who needs his azz whooped. Oh, and if a cop tried to take some action against these poor little children who were beating up an immigrant, it would be the cop who would be suspended for hurting these poor little teenagers. Big bad white cop didn't have to hurt my baby.

Did I mention I hate liberals! and lawyers and cop bashers and liberals!
 
R

RadioPatrol

Guest
No good values are being taught at home or school. Kids are surrounded by bad influences because the mom don't care. Throw in some violent video games and movies and take away any value in religion or respect for authority and bamm! Sh*t happens.




my 20 yr old son fits most of that discription ....

his momma never did keep track of him much .....

he turned out ok he ain't down robing the tackle box ...

Video Games do not make children violent ....
 

Dork

Highlander's MPD
my 20 yr old son fits most of that discription ....

his momma never did keep track of him much .....

he turned out ok he ain't down robing the tackle box ...

Video Games do not make children violent ....


All of the factors I mentioned can and do play a part in the problem with our kids, including video games. Sure,many kids play violent video games and turn out fine but haven't you ever read the news stories regarding some of our most bizzare school shootings? I must disagree. If a kid sees violence and rape playing these games and gets no positive influence from a loving mom and dad, don't you think this could be a factor?

It's great your son turned out OK but I still think the things i mentioned are factors in many of these cases.

If I'm on the wrong track here, please explain what you think is causing these kids to become more violent. Things like this were unheard of 40 years ago when teachers could smack the kids with a ruler, parents would take over when the kids got home and they had God to answer to. Kids were watching Chitty Chitty Bang Bang and not playing Grand Theft Auto. Gee, I wonder why kids these days are so screwed up? Duuuh!
 

Sonsie

The mighty Al-Sonsie!
That's for sure and it's even sadder to see children being so callous. These kids are 14 & 15 years old. How did they get so desensitized so young?

These aren't children, they are rabid mutts. Bottom of the barrel genetics, lowlife scum breeds same...
 
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RadioPatrol

Guest
All of the factors I mentioned can and do play a part in the problem with our kids, including video games.
SNIP

Kids were watching Chitty Chitty Bang Bang and not playing Grand Theft Auto. Gee, I wonder why kids these days are so screwed up? Duuuh!


I am going to cherry pick here for a min:

Violent Video Games: Myths, Facts, and Unanswered Questions



Myth 7. Violent video games affect only a small fraction of players.

Facts: Though there are good theoretical reasons to expect some populations to be more susceptible to violent video game effects than others, the research literature has not yet substantiated this. That is, there is not consistent evidence for the claim that younger children are more negatively affected than adolescents or young adults or that males are more affected than females. There is some evidence that highly aggressive individuals are more affected than nonaggressive individuals, but this finding does not consistently occur. Even nonaggressive individuals are consistently affected by brief exposures. Further research will likely find some significant moderators of violent video game effects, because the much larger research literature on television violence has found such effects and the underlying processes are the same. However, even that larger literature has not identified a sizeable population that is totally immune to negative effects of media violence.


1st I don't buy all the physcobable - these are the same folks that say Homosexuality is "OK" when 40 yrs ago it was still considered a deviant lifestyle ... but that is a different topic.

the Jeffry Dalmers of the world do not need Violent Video Games - VVG's to bring out their sicko tenancies ...

and I will grant you, my 10 yr old was already having social issues in school - He is already on a long list of drugs - diagnosed ADHD and some other social disorders - when his mom removed his VVG's and only let him have his Dinosaur books and such it, had a calming effect on his behavior.

I believe individuals that are already bullies, of low moral character or who are already showing anti social tendencies, VVG's may bring out Violent behavior towards others ...

but I believe the behavior is already there ....


The Games Themselves don't make the Person Violent. The behavior patterns are already there.

Violent Video Games Can Increase Aggression

This is a little more Recent:

Does game violence make teens aggressive? - On the Level - MSNBC.com

Increasingly parents are more accepting of video game violence, chalking it up to being a part of growing up.

“I was dead-set against violent video games,” says Kelley Windfield, a Sammamish, Wa.-based mother of two. “But my husband told me I had to start loosening up.”

Laura Best, a mother of three from Clovis, Calif., says she looks for age-appropriate games for her 14 year-old son, Kyle. And although he doesn’t play a lot of games, he does tend to gravitate towards shooters like “Medal of Honor.” But she isn’t concerned that Kyle will become aggressive as a result.

“That’s like saying a soccer game or a football game will make a kid more aggressive,” she says. “It’s about self-control, and you’ve got to learn it.”

Ley says he believes further research, for which the Center for Successful Parenting is trying to arrange, will prove a cause-and-effect relationship between game violence and off-screen aggression.

But for now, he says, the study released last week gives his organization the ammunition it needs to prove that parents need to be more aware of how kids are using their free time.

“Let’s quit using various Xboxes as babysitters instead of doing healthful activities,” says Ley, citing the growing epidemic of childhood obesity in the United States.

And who, really, can argue with that?


maybe that is difference .... not letting the XBOX be the babysitter, like I refuse to let my 3yr old watch any TV until she was 3 .... she is 3.5 now

Did I make any sense ..... Like Booze - I drank like a fish in my 20's ... now I my 40's I barely have a beer once a month .... other people crawl in a bottle @ 15 and never come out ...

:cheers:
 
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R

RadioPatrol

Guest
:gossip:

CBS News | Can A Video Game Lead To Murder? | March 8, 2005 10:25:30

Attorney Jack Thompson, a long-time crusader against video-game violence, is bringing the suit. "What we're saying is that Devin Moore was, in effect, trained to do what he did. He was given a murder simulator," says Thompson.

"He bought it as a minor. He played it hundreds of hours, which is primarily a cop-killing game. It's our theory, which we think we can prove to a jury in Alabama, that, but for the video-game training, he would not have done what he did."

Moore’s victims were Ace Mealer, a 911 dispatcher; James Crump, a police officer; and Arnold Strickland, another officer who was on patrol in the early morning hours of June 7, 2003, when he brought in Moore on suspicion of stealing a car.

Moore had no criminal history, and was cooperative as Strickland booked him inside the Fayette police station. Then suddenly, inexplicably, Moore snapped.

According to Moore's own statement, he lunged at Officer Arnold Strickland, grabbing his .40-caliber Glock automatic and shot Strickland twice, once in the head. Officer James Crump heard the shots and came running. Moore met him in the hallway, and fired three shots into Crump, one of them in the head.

Moore kept walking down the hallway towards the door of the emergency dispatcher. There, he turned and fired five shots into Ace Mealer. Again, one of those shots was in the head. Along the way, Moore had grabbed a set of car keys. He went out the door to the parking lot, jumped into a police cruiser, and took off. It all took less than a minute, and three men were dead.

"The video game industry gave him a cranial menu that popped up in the blink of an eye, in that police station," says Thompson. "And that menu offered him the split-second decision to kill the officers, shoot them in the head, flee in a police car, just as the game itself trained them to do."

After his capture, Moore is reported to have told police, "Life is like a video game. Everybody’s got to die sometime." Moore is awaiting trial in criminal court. A suit filed by the families of two of his victims claims that Moore acted out a scenario found in Grand Theft Auto: The player is a street thug trying to take over the city. In one scenario, the player can enter a police precinct, steal a uniform, free a convict from jail, escape by shooting police, and flee in a squad car.

"I've now got the entire police force after me. So you have to eliminate all resistance," says Nicholas Hamner, a law student at the University of Alabama, who demonstrated Grand Theft Auto for 60 Minutes. Like millions of gamers, the overwhelming majority, he says he plays it simply for fun.

David Walsh, a child psychologist who’s co-authored a study connecting violent video games to physical aggression, says the link can be explained in part by pioneering brain research recently done at the National Institutes of Health -- which shows that the teenage brain is not fully developed.

Does repeated exposure to violent video games have more of an impact on a teenager than it does on an adult?

"It does. And that's largely because the teenage brain is different from the adult brain. The impulse control center of the brain, the part of the brain that enables us to think ahead, consider consequences, manage urges -- that's the part of the brain right behind our forehead called the prefrontal cortex," says Walsh. "That's under construction during the teenage years. In fact, the wiring of that is not completed until the early 20s."

Walsh says this diminished impulse control becomes heightened in a person who has additional risk factors for criminal behavior. Moore had a profoundly troubled upbringing, bouncing back and forth between a broken home and a handful of foster families.


:whistle:

Grand Theft Auto player gets death penalty - The INQUIRER

According to a statement from the families they are not saying that Moore was not responsible for what he did. They say that there is a lot of blame to go around. This is why they are suing Sony, Take-Two/Rockstar, Wal-Mart, and GameStop. :jameo: (lets sue walmart for selling the game)

A cynic would think that the question is who should pay for the deaths of these three. Moore is going to be killed by the State, he can't really pay much more and these companies seem to have enough money.

While a court is usually incredibly sympathetic to families in such cases, there are long histories of similar cases that have gone belly up. The case of the teen that shot himself after listening to Judas Priest because of what his family claimed were subliminal messages to “do it” played backwards, springs to mind. However if, as the family says, the issue is one of blame then why must it fall on the door of the makers of a game the bloke played.

What about his family? The jury heard how Moore had been abused as a child. What were the other elements that made up his upbringing? Social services, who failed to spot the guy was about to go over the edge. What about the police station that allows loaded firearms to be carried around while people are being interviewed?

It seems that if blame for creating a teen mass-murderer has to be shared by anyone, it is not just those who made up the game. It seems that the families have gone for a media byte-sized target?

Is it so impossible to believe that a kid, with a history of abuse, who is arrested on suspicion of nicking a car, will not snap?

STOP THE PRESS....

Strickland v. Sony - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Moore was apprehended several hours later in Mississippi. According to the Associated Press, after his recapture he said, "Life is a video game. Everybody's got to die sometime." Once in custody, Moore quickly confessed. He told detectives that he shot the men because he didn't want to go to jail.[7]


:coffee:
 
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Mateo

New Member
I am going to cherry pick here for a min:

Violent Video Games: Myths, Facts, and Unanswered Questions






1st I don't buy all the physcobable - these are the same folks that say Homosexuality is "OK" when 40 yrs ago it was still considered a deviant lifestyle ... but that is a different topic.

the Jeffry Dalmers of the world do not need Violent Video Games - VVG's to bring out their sicko tenancies ...

and I will grant you, my 10 yr old was already having social issues in school - He is already on a long list of drugs - diagnosed ADHD and some other social disorders - when his mom removed his VVG's and only let him have his Dinosaur books and such it, had a calming effect on his behavior.

I believe individuals that are already bullies, of low moral character or who are already showing anti social tendencies, VVG's may bring out Violent behavior towards others ...

but I believe the behavior is already there ....


The Games Themselves don't make the Person Violent. The behavior patterns are already there.

Violent Video Games Can Increase Aggression

This is a little more Recent:

Does game violence make teens aggressive? - On the Level - MSNBC.com




maybe that is difference .... not letting the XBOX be the babysitter, like I refuse to let my 3yr old watch any TV until she was 3 .... she is 3.5 now

Did I make any sense ..... Like Booze - I drank like a fish in my 20's ... now I my 40's I barely have a beer once a month .... other people crawl in a bottle @ 15 and never come out ...

:cheers:
Your points are valid on games.....remember when Dungeons and Dragons was considered am important disturbing influence on kids? Should we then declare Monopoly the cause for our greed or Chess a substitute for War ? The list of what we blame conditions on get wider and wilder, except we forget the simple fact that the true cause of blame is in ourselves.
 
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RadioPatrol

Guest
Your points are valid on games.....remember when Dungeons and Dragons was considered am important disturbing influence on kids? Should we then declare Monopoly the cause for our greed or Chess a substitute for War ? The list of what we blame conditions on get wider and wilder, except we forget the simple fact that the true cause of blame is in ourselves.



I read many of the Evil D&D Books, starting as a freshman in HS, and play a few times (I read more than I played) .... this would have been around 1980? when D&D was really starting to take off ............. :snacks:
 

Mateo

New Member
I read many of the Evil D&D Books, starting as a freshman in HS, and play a few times (I read more than I played) .... this would have been around 1980? when D&D was really starting to take off ............. :snacks:
1972 , I still have the three booklets (as well as Greyhawk, Blackmoor & demigods and heroes)in the white box.)
My point, is that there was a case in Va (I think in the Shenandoah) where a disturbed young man participated in some murderous episode. It was central to the story that the young man was an avid player of D & D, and hence the inference was that D & D was the reason d'entre for his actions. Not the fact that the boy had a plethora of personal problems prior to the game which was enhanced by a very influential and equally disturbed GM.
The amusing part of this story is that a number of religious figures called for the banning and burning of D & D books. These people brought up as many copies as they could, and burned them. The joke on them was that they were supporting the very thing they were condemning, for TSR did the obvious w/ enhanced revenue and printed up more books for them to burn. It took the fringe nuts a little while to get a clue...lol.
 
R

RadioPatrol

Guest
It was central to the story that the young man was an avid player of D & D, and hence the inference was that D & D was the reason d'entre for his actions. Not the fact that the boy had a plethora of personal problems prior to the game which was enhanced by a very influential and equally disturbed GM.



yeah my point exactly ..... it is not the games, but the personality

I have not heard of any of the forumites that play COD 4 going around beating people up .... :whistle:
 

Dork

Highlander's MPD
I am going to cherry pick here for a min:

Violent Video Games: Myths, Facts, and Unanswered Questions






1st I don't buy all the physcobable - these are the same folks that say Homosexuality is "OK" when 40 yrs ago it was still considered a deviant lifestyle ... but that is a different topic.

the Jeffry Dalmers of the world do not need Violent Video Games - VVG's to bring out their sicko tenancies ...

and I will grant you, my 10 yr old was already having social issues in school - He is already on a long list of drugs - diagnosed ADHD and some other social disorders - when his mom removed his VVG's and only let him have his Dinosaur books and such it, had a calming effect on his behavior.

I believe individuals that are already bullies, of low moral character or who are already showing anti social tendencies, VVG's may bring out Violent behavior towards others ... but I believe the behavior is already there ....

The Games Themselves don't make the Person Violent. The behavior patterns are already there.

Violent Video Games Can Increase Aggression

This is a little more Recent:

Does game violence make teens aggressive? - On the Level - MSNBC.com




maybe that is difference .... not letting the XBOX be the babysitter, like I refuse to let my 3yr old watch any TV until she was 3 .... she is 3.5 now

Did I make any sense ..... Like Booze - I drank like a fish in my 20's ... now I my 40's I barely have a beer once a month .... other people crawl in a bottle @ 15 and never come out ...

:cheers:

Well, OK, let's assume the behavior is already there, blah, blah, blah. Why didn't kids in the 50s have these problems? Why are we seeing so much violence today that we didn't see before. There's more to it than "the behavior is already there." You can google all the research you want to defend your stance that TV and video games aren't causing our kids to be heartless and violent. That's fine with me but I'm sure I can seach just as much to prove just the opposite.

As I have asked before, what do YOU think is the root of today's problems with our kids? What is causing it? To say its just already there is just crazy. It's gotta come from somewhere.

I know, blame President BUSH! It must be his fault. :killingme
 
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Mateo

New Member
Well, kids growing up in the 50's didn't have $100+ athletic shoes, access to cell phones, credit cards, ad nauseum or any of the modern trappings that Mad Ave and Rodeo Drive tells them that they must have in order to be "cool". Hell, We didn't have big money allowances and we had parents that stood tall in our eyes as role models. People up to the 60's could actually live on a single $15000 annual salary. Kids were taught that respect was already earned by our parents and that it was our turn to earn that same respect.
Somehow, in my humble opinion, all of that was lost in the heyday o Haight Ashbury and the "do your own thing" generation which degenerated into the disco"Me" decade. DR Spock came up with that absurd theory that disciplining your child was tantamount to stifling his/her creativity and upcoming hippie parents sent the society and its mores into tailspin. Hollywood started headlining smart alecky kids as role models and the race was on. I know when I "inherited" a stepdaughter with my 2nd wife, her reaction to me was"I don't have to listen to you, you arn't my real father" SO i said, fine, you ain't getting a thing from me then.
Hence is it a wonder that we are saddled with these wunderkind? You can't discipline them because they will get you legally jailed for"abuse" and worse. After all, in this modern time, it is their word against yours and heaven forbid you get a lousy lawyer.
They feel "entitled" even though they haven't paid their dues. Thank God, my current and I decided we are too old for kids (we are both near 60) and I am too old to spend time in prison for what I would consider justifiable homicide.
Again, this is not to say that all children are bad. Its just the standouts that make it extremely hard to judge the rest.
 

Dork

Highlander's MPD
Well, kids growing up in the 50's didn't have $100+ athletic shoes, access to cell phones, credit cards, ad nauseum or any of the modern trappings that Mad Ave and Rodeo Drive tells them that they must have in order to be "cool". Hell, We didn't have big money allowances and we had parents that stood tall in our eyes as role models. People up to the 60's could actually live on a single $15000 annual salary. Kids were taught that respect was already earned by our parents and that it was our turn to earn that same respect.
Somehow, in my humble opinion, all of that was lost in the heyday o Haight Ashbury and the "do your own thing" generation which degenerated into the disco"Me" decade. DR Spock came up with that absurd theory that disciplining your child was tantamount to stifling his/her creativity and upcoming hippie parents sent the society and its mores into tailspin. Hollywood started headlining smart alecky kids as role models and the race was on. I know when I "inherited" a stepdaughter with my 2nd wife, her reaction to me was"I don't have to listen to you, you arn't my real father" SO i said, fine, you ain't getting a thing from me then.
Hence is it a wonder that we are saddled with these wunderkind? You can't discipline them because they will get you legally jailed for"abuse" and worse. After all, in this modern time, it is their word against yours and heaven forbid you get a lousy lawyer.
They feel "entitled" even though they haven't paid their dues. Thank God, my current and I decided we are too old for kids (we are both near 60) and I am too old to spend time in prison for what I would consider justifiable homicide.
Again, this is not to say that all children are bad. Its just the standouts that make it extremely hard to judge the rest.


You are wise, Mr. Mateo!


Oh, did I mention that I HATE LIBERALS!
 
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Mateo

New Member
You are wise, Mr. Mateo!


Oh, did I mention that I HATE LIBERALS!

No, not wise my friend, Just tutored in the harsh realities of life. like the majority of us. I confess I was a liberal demo in my stupid and impressionable youth, but I learned quickly the real score when I got my first job where my hard earned money went and you can bet a good portion went to benefit someone else. Do I feel entitled? Yes I am entitled to what I earn and the friggin' feds can keep their grubby paws off it. If I'm going to be taxed, let the money stay at home to assist those Americans....US citizens that truly need it.
I hope these little monsters get payback big time. I don't want to hear about disadvantages due to enviroment. There are plenty examples of people who did without and who came through w/out resorting to violence. We used to value these role models highly. Now we , by our silence, give allowance to the easy path and short shrifters, the loud and the shallow. What can we do ? It is enough, just enough, nowadays, just to survive.
For all the technological advances we have come up with all these many years, we have regressed as a people.
I don't have any answers, sir, and I doubt if I , honestly, ever will. Maybe that is the basic problem...too many solutions and not enough time. Maybe the best solution is to talk to one another, not at each other. It is the civilized way to begin that first step in a long journey.
 

Mateo

New Member
yeah my point exactly ..... it is not the games, but the personality

I have not heard of any of the forumites that play COD 4 going around beating people up .... :whistle:

Do you remember the incident in Texas where the player went missing somewhere on the University grounds wandering through the power plants and storage areas thinking he was in a real dungeon, dressed "appropriately" in medieval garb ( complete with wizard staff !) and attacking anyone he encountered as "Orcs and Kobolds" I don't remember his fate, but I do remember the made for TV movie "Monsters and Mazes" which gave rise to the hysteria and misinformation and was based on this incident. Again, of course it was easier to blame the game than look at the background of the individual involved. who was having economic, educational and social issues that he could not deal with.
These are games, diversions. When you are done, you close the book or turn off the computer. You get on with life.
Sadly, some don't complete that stage.
 

BOP

Well-Known Member
Well, OK, let's assume the behavior is already there, blah, blah, blah. Why didn't kids in the 50s have these problems? Why are we seeing so much violence today that we didn't see before. There's more to it than "the behavior is already there." You can google all the research you want to defend your stance that TV and video games aren't causing our kids to be heartless and violent. That's fine with me but I'm sure I can seach just as much to prove just the opposite.

As I have asked before, what do YOU think is the root of today's problems with our kids? What is causing it? To say its just already there is just crazy. It's gotta come from somewhere.

I know, blame President BUSH! It must be his fault. :killingme

You're deluding yourself if you think the '50's were some kind of cultural utopia in this country - or at worst, some kind of West Side Story.

There are at least a couple of factors (undoubtably more, but at least a couple). 1st, look at the population, both in terms of sheer numbers, and in demographic shifts, and 2nd, consider that in the 50's, 90 percent (or more) of the population didn't have the news coming into their living rooms morning, noon, and night.
 
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